Interesting bits from Kerry on Dean, Clark, Bi-partisanship & The Draft

Stretch run is here, Kerry says

snip..........

At the same time, though, Kerry tried to distance himself from Dean, who is fond of saying that Democrats should "stand up and be proud to be Democrats again." Kerry said he liked his party, but he'd become an effective senator by putting partisanship aside and working with Republicans like Arizona Sen. John McCain.

"We need leadership that's reaching beyond political parties," he said.

He finally mentioned two of his rivals by name when the conversation turned to tax policy. Kerry deplored Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy as "unconscionable," but he said he would preserve the cuts that benefited the middle class, "unlike Howard Dean and (Missouri Rep.) Dick Gephardt."

Kerry asked his audience to "grill" him, and he spent most of the hour answering questions. Many concerned veterans affairs. He rejected one man's plea to support reinstating the draft, saying he'd only back mandatory service during a major war.

more.........

http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/local2003/101303kerry_2003.shtml

My follow-up question would have been this: just exactly what do you consider to be a "major war"?

i would guess it would be something like world war II.

And anybody who thinks this is a major war is either forgetting what Vietnam was really like or is just too young to know better.

On edit:

I got up to get coffee and forgot the rest of my post! Vietnam was Iraq x 10, WWII was Iraq x 50. WWII was really a 'major war'.

You're forgetting what VietNam was like in the early sixties, much like this. Random attacks and bombings.

I'm just saying this isn't that, yet. The poster seemed to imply we were in a major war right now. We're not, that's all.

What tax cuts that benfitted the middle class?!

I really like Kerry, but I wish he'd stop saying that line.

The MONDO ENORMO cuts for the bazillionaires were an onerous burden causing service increases.

I thought Kerry's supporters were touting him as a staunch liberal...now he's touting working with John McCain?

The real John Kerry??

like dean has? kerry has dem support; dean has trashed dems in washington. kerry has the ability to work with republicans; unless dean is actually a member of the opposite party (like my mayor, mike bloomberg) then he does not have immediate republican support. especially since his supporters hail him as some kind of ultra-lib. (pffft)

kerry's ability to work with pukes does not mean he's "shifting to the right"; it means he has earned respect and people WILL work with him. but you can try and paint him as a puke until you're blue in the face. what the fork ever.

Because I truly feel that it'll take a total revamp for Congress to fix this country. Too many Democratic elected members are whores to the right and it's time we change that. I'm not afraid to state that my Rep (Congressman Matheson) is a sheep; he'll go along with Bush on just about everything. But the kicker? He's a DEMOCRAT. I just PUKE every single time I open the paper and read Matheson's voting record. Hell, One the Issues places Matheson as a moderate Libertarian.

Dean hasn't trashed ALL Dems. He's only trashed the Democrats that have turned their back on the party. I love Kerry, I'll admit he's a solid Dem. But then I see the likes of Zell Miller, Joe Biden, Joe Lieberman, and Matheson I cringe. THIS can't be our party. If we continue down this pather, we're gonna lose. The DLC has RAPED the Democratic Party and it's about time we take it back.

those people were elected; why wasn't anyone all that concerned before? we've always had the power to rally grassroots support and donate to campaigns... why did ~WE~ let it get to the point where people we hate are elected again and again, their careers spanning decades?

Dean is just opening Americas eyes to the fact that a lot of members in Washington need the boot.

It would be nice to think working with the Republican Senators and Representatives was possible but I don't think there is much out there to justify it. If Kerry is elected he will either stick by Democratic principles and enter an unending war against Congress, or fall into line and give us Bush-lite.

Still, Bush-lite is preferable to what we have right now even though I suspect it isn't what we're looking for.

More telling, to me at least, is that it is hard to see how Kerry is going to beat Bush anyway. What, exactly, does he have to offer besides rhetoric? He has a long legislative record, but so do dozens of other Senators, and because he has a long record there are any number of areas where he can be attacked by Roves werewolves.

Is he going to vote for the $87 billion AND the additional billions that will be proposed in short order? Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Either way he'll be attacked, as will any of the D.C. types in the race. Have we seen anything to suggest he can counter those attacks, in all the years he's served in the Senate?

The debate goes on.

I, of course, am a "Clark B'ar", bearish on W and bullish on America.

ABB sez I, but I'd like us to have a fair shot at winning this time.

And for a republican McCain aint a bad guy.

On the actual day all of the sexual harassment allegations were hitting the news.

And on the day Moveon.org was putting together advertising to combat the Schwarzenegger candidacy?

Look all I am saying is that Kerry and McCain could get along and could be shock ;) friends. We arent talking about Arnold here, I am saying that its reasonable that McCain and Kerry could be friends. I am sadden to see that but I do have some respect for Senator McCain.

Kerry worked with McCain on the POW-MIA committee and pushing normalization of relations with Vietnam.

Reconciliation and healing after a war. What a rabid right-wing idea.

:eyes:

The two probably despite their idealogical differences find common ground with things and are friends probably, Tip O'Neil and the man who died recently who was minority leader were good friends.

POW-MIA was an underlying reason why Ross Perot had such a hardon for Bush 41. Perot was one of the underlying reasons why Clinton won the White House.

Just another one of history's ironies.

is so obvious that I'm a little embarassed for you to have to give it.

Kerry asked his audience to "grill" him, and he spent most of the hour answering questions. Many concerned veterans affairs. He rejected one man's plea to support reinstating the draft, saying he'd only back mandatory service during a major war.
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/local2003/101303kerry_2003.shtml

A major war in this context would be one that could not be adequately manned with the all-volunteer system. (Before you start screaming Iraq, let's just remember that Kerry, along with I believe almost all of our candidates, would really work with the U.N. and our allies to reduce the burden on our troops.)

And it's not a major war????

Ooops...I'm sorry, the President said major hostilities are over.

He doesn't think now is the time for a draft. It isn't. It is time to show humility and bring in the U.N. You are grasping at straws. You obviously are in the camp of people who have a problem with his Iraq vote and are looking for verification that he doesn't take the situation in Iraq seriously. It is quite a stretch.

Otherwise you believe it is time for a draft. In which case, I suggest you make your case.

As far as a major war, he meant it more in the case of needing a huge force to defeat the enemy. Not how many are dying. Hitler had invaded most of Europe. It took huge armies from several countries to defeat him and the Japanese army. Certainly you aren't suggesting that the Iraq war requires the army that WWII required.

Okay, everyone in this thread who seriously thought about the draft coming back should go into the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap.

I'll only support the draft if EVERYONE in favor of it, every man, woman and child, signs up for combat duty first. No more Air National Guard, no more student deferments, no more deferments of any kind, except possibly for people who are blind (never mind, they can work for the people doing contract compliance for Halliburton's projects).

Everybody goes, regardless of race, creed, national origin or daddy's checkbook.

Then I'd still oppose the draft, I just wouldn't have as much contempt for the people proposing it.

With a few important exceptions, Kerry's record is decidedly liberal - not for the sake of being liberal, but because he believes they are the right choice (and are).

Beyond that, Kerry always strives to build bridges to get things actually accomplished - rather than two polar extremes shouting at each other.

Read Kerry from 2001 talking about bi-partisanship in foreign relations:

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The president—and the Congress—will be forced to deal with the inevitable crises beyond our borders and our ongoing international obligations. The question is not whether but how foreign policy issues will be addressed: through a partisan tug-of-war or through bipartisan cooperation among those who believe that U.S. national security and national interests demand that politics stop at the water’s edge. At the risk of challenging conventional wisdom, the prospects for cooperation are greater than one might think.

No longer confronted on the international stage by another global superpower—or in fact any serious challenger—U.S. policymakers are searching for a common vision of the U.S. role in the world.

This search is conducted against a backdrop of ethnic and regional conflicts; emboldened state and nonstate actors; a proliferation of transnational security threats; and increasing global interdependence in economic, environmental, and health care sectors. In this scenario, it is hardly surprising that a myriad of new and often conflicting international priorities have arisen within the U.S. government.

In many of these debates, disagreement does not fall neatly along partisan lines. Though for different reasons, members of Congress in the extremes of both parties have joined forces to form an odd-fellows kind of neo-isolationist movement.

Striking a nationalist tone on the right, they argue that U.S. troops should not be wasting their valuable time and resources keeping the peace in places that are not vital to U.S. national interests.

Reaching a similar conclusion, those on the left argue that multinational organizations are too powerful, the U.S. military too influential, and the U.S. international presence too far flung. Beyond this confluence, the Left and the Right disagree on almost everything else.

Sandwiched between the extremes are the moderates who must necessarily be the target audience for the new Bush administration if bipartisanship is to be forged in foreign policy. The moderates cut across both political parties and, like President George W. Bush, agree on the fundamental idea that the United States must be engaged in the world and meet its obligations to provide constructive leadership.

Without question, the neo-isolationists in both parties will continue their efforts to set limits on U.S. global engagement. The challenge for the Bush administration will be to define a global role for the United States that moderates in both parties can support. In shaping that role, the next president must be guided by three fundamental realities.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:L3dpESAnS2wJ:www.twq.com/01spring/kerry.pdf+john+kerry+stopping+at+the+water%27s+edge&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

That's what I call him. Someone who knows that when you're trying to get from one place to another, you do it by continuing to go forward.

And I thought Dean was the McCain-like maverick. Now they toss him overboard just to take a swipe at Kerry. Wishy-washy.

when you come from where Kerry does?

If he was from Georgia and had those convictions I'd give him a lot more credit.

Kerry likes his party. Strong words.

Yeah, the democrats are okay, I guess.

I prefer people that are Democrats despite themselves. Give me a gun rights, death penalty centrist anyday.

1.) Was he in 'Nam? Check
2.) Can he Kiteboard? Check
3.) Does he like to hunt doves? Check
4.) Is he okay with being a democrat? Check