Why does the Democratic party support H-1b visas?

it's wage suppression, plain and simple

Clinton, Edwards and Obama all support raising the H-1b visa cap, from it's already high level

Clinton works with Indian outsourcer TATA, Edwards co-sponsored a huge h-1b increase during the tech crash

it's a sellout of working people, period

i've quit voting since 2000 - i stay home on election day and just watch the people who sell me out lose

what are we going to do about this?

I cant believe they havent changed their positions, with the economy plunging into recession

one way to help people in a recession, is to not glut the economy with hundreds of thousands of more workers

What the fuck are you doing here, then?

Planning on staying home again, eh?

Subtlety isn't your strong suit, evidently.

:rofl:

'no criticize party'

no matter how valid the criticism is re the party's supposed principals, namely working Americans

and that's precisely why you are LOSING

(no, i've never voted republican, and prior to 2000, i volunteered on democrat campaigns)

:rofl:

Have fun!!

If you're unhappy, don't let the door hit ya. We won't notice that you've left us, since you don't participate anyway.

Hey, thanks for showing your true colors so early with that and that's precisely why you are LOSING comment.

A Democrat would have said "we."

Only "we" aren't losing. Go check the roster of the US House and Senate, there, pal...and note the turnout in the initial contests.

We're winning, and Nattering Nabobs of Negativity (a phrase that might resonate with you) like you aren't gonna drag us down.

Your kind of lame and rather obvious bullshit actually invigorates us.

without even addressing whether the issue is valid

with your small D 'democrat' ass.

Go home. You blew it right out of the gate. Fool.

i did say it had been 8 years

no addressing of whether the issue is vaild

there's not a single thing i've said that isnt true

Working conditions have driven 50% of the licensed RNs in this country out of practice.

H1B visas are looting the third world of trained nurses because corporate medicine has worked the domestic supply to death.

What would be nice is if we had more nursing schools, more medical schools, affordable tuitions, support for medical workers, decent wages for medical workers, and MAXIMUM work schedules that didn't exceed forty hours a week, without written dispensations that both the supervisors AND the worker agree to, and were limited and temporary.

It sucks when medical personnel are ground down to the bone. It's wrong. We as a country should value medical workers, and pay them a wage that acknowledges their contributions.

I feel the same way about teachers.

In a lot of cities, nurses are making decent wages. However, it's the JOB that is the problem. The lack of assistive equipment wrecks our bodies. The mandatory overtime, 12 hours of it at a crack, at management's convenience destroys our personal lives. The constant cost cutting by cutting personnel in all departments, including nursing, then putting much of the work on the backs of the RNs left is also having a deleterious effect on patient care and nursing morale.

I loved nursing, but by the end, I swore they were tacking on 6 inches to the hallways and another 50 pounds to the average patient weight. I knew our patient care assignments had doubled in the 12 years I'd worked on the same unit while our responsibilities had tripled.

They're importing all those H1B nurses to try to make up for those of us who have been destroyed by the nature of the job, itself. Management doesn't care. As long as the cash flow is positive, that's all that counts.

attracted by the better wages

'They're importing all those H1B nurses to try to make up for those of us who have been destroyed by the nature of the job'

more h-1b nurses means less bargaining power with management for better working conditions

it's really that simple

i went through this with tech

Support certainly does include CRANES to move hefties or whatever system one might need (maybe airbags) and even frigging scooters like the one the Monkey falls off of, if the pharmacy is a million miles away, or what have you.

As I said, I think there should be a MAXIMUM forty hour work week--that overtime has made many friends of mine quit the profession. If anyone WANTS to work overtime, it should be only allowed for a limited time, to prevent burnout.

We need more schools, though--and incentives, and scholarships. And maybe we need more of a nursing APPRENTICE system, so that the younger students can earn a wage while helping out under close supervision. It might enable more people to migrate to nursing on a part time basis, while earning a living wage.

We just are not doing it right, the way things are now.

against.

There should be several issues that a movement work on.

We do not like the Corporatism that exists in Democratic Party.
Just screaming about Corporatism does not work.

We need to take a handful of issues that affect the Poor, Working
Class and Middle Class. Minimum Wage up to those who make 200,000 K
annually. These are the people who will suffer the most due to
Globalization and Trade Policies.

We are not going to have a Candidate who cannot be called A Corporatist.
Both HRC and Obama have to pass muster with the DLC. This is the
way it is.

How would it be to take a well thought out group of issues that
you pursue with the candidates. Watch the votes in the House
and Senate. Watch for members of our own party who vote over
and over against the interest of the American People in order
to push Business and Corporations interest. This is where we really
hold people accountable.

I only went to Grassley, because he was on the same floor as Senator Harkin. I almost didnt, because I thought it was a waste of time. But I did anyway

He's the only one who took me seriously

Here's what he just said on the Senate floor

Why is it that a republican can get this, and the democrats cant?



http://www.greencardapply.com/news/news07/news07_1206.htm

12/06/2007

Senator Grassley sponsored H-1B Supplemental Fee legislation which the Senate passed but collapsed. In the "unrelated" "Farm" Bill session, the Senator requested a ten-minute time and made the following statement on the Senate floor.

Mr. President, earlier this year, the Senate tried to solve the very complex and emotional issue of immigration reform. The immigration bill we considered included border security, interior enforcement, and amnesty. It also included many needed reforms to our legal immigration process. I said throughout the debate that Congress needs a long-term solution to the immigration issue. We cannot pass a bandaid approach that includes a path to citizenship for law breakers; rather, Congress needs to improve our legal immigration channels. I firmly believe companies want to hire legal workers, and people want to enter the United States legally. If we fix our visa policies, we can restore integrity to our immigration system, and all parties can benefit.

But if we cannot pass a comprehensive bill--and I think as time goes on it is going to look more difficult as we go into an election year--if we cannot pass such a comprehensive bill, I think that we should consider passing legislation we can agree on. I am taking the floor at this time to talk about the H-1B visa provisions that were included in the immigration bill and ask my colleagues to take a second look at these needed reforms. Many companies use H-1B programs. It has served a valuable purpose. But we need to reevaluate how this program operates and work to make it more effective.

The H-1B program was officially created in 1990, although we have brought foreign workers legally into our country for over 30 years. It was brought into existence to serve American employers that needed high-tech workers. It was created to file a void in the U.S. labor force. The visa holders were intended to file jobs for a temporary amount of time, while the country invested in American workers to pick up the skills our economy needed. We attached fees to the visas that now bring in millions of dollars. These fees and the dollars that come with it are invested in training grants to educate our own workforce. We use the funds to put kids through school for science, technology, engineering, and math skills. We provide students with scholarships with the hope that they will replace imported foreign workers. Unfortunately, the H-1B program is so popular, it is now replacing the U.S. labor force rather than supplementing it.

The high-tech and business community is begging Congress to raise or eliminate the annual cap that currently stands at 85,000 visas each year. These numbers do not include and account for those who are exempt from the cap. For instance, we don't count employees at institutions of higher education or nonprofit research organizations. We don't count those who change jobs or renew their H-1B visa. My point is, we have many more than 85,000 H-1B visas distributed each year. I am here to tell my colleagues that increasing the visa supply is not the only solution to the so-called shortage of high-tech workers. Since March of this year, the Senator from Illinois, Mr. Durbin, and I have taken a good look at the H-1B visa program. We have raised issues with the Citizenship and Immigration Service as well as the Department of Labor. We have asked questions of companies that use the H-1B visa, and I have raised issues with attorneys who advise their clients on how to get around the permanent employment regulations.

I would like to share what I have learned. I want to give some fraud and abuse examples. Unfortunately, there are some bad apples in the H-1B visa program. In 2005, a man was charged with fraud and misuse of visas, money laundering, and mail fraud for his participation in a multistate scam to smuggle Indian and Pakistani nationals into the United States with fraudulently obtained H-1B visas. The man created fictitious companies, often renting only a cubicle simply to have a mailing address. He fabricated tax returns and submitted over 1,000 false visa petitions. Another man pled guilty last August to charges of fraud and conspiracy. This man and an attorney charged foreign nationals thousands of dollars to fraudulently obtain H-1B visas. He provided false documents to substantiate their H-1B petitions.

The Programmer's Guild, a group representing U.S. worker interests, filed over 300 discrimination complaints in the first half of 2006 against companies that posted ``H-1B visa holder only'' ads on job boards. Anyone can go on the Internet and find jobs that target H-1B visa holders. There are more than just national anecdotes, however. Everyday Americans are affected. Since looking into the H-1B visa program, some of my constituents have come to me and spoken out against abuses they see. One of my constituents has shared copies of e-mails showing how he is often bombarded with requests by companies that want to lease their H-1B workers to that Iowan. There are companies with H-1B workers who are so-called ``on the bench,'' meaning they are ready to be deployed to a project. Hundreds of foreign workers are standing by waiting for work. Some call these H-1B ``factory firms.'' This Iowan even said one company went so far as to require him to sign a memorandum of understanding that helps the H-1B factory firm justify to the Federal Government that they have adequate business opportunity that requires additional visa holders. It is a complete falsification of the market justification for additional H-1B workers. These firms are making a commodity out of H-1B workers.

They have visa holders but are looking for work. It is supposed to be the other way around. There should be a shortage or a need, first and foremost. Then and only then do we allow foreign workers to fill these jobs temporarily. Another constituent sent me a letter saying that he saw firsthand how foreign workers were brought in while Iowans with similar qualifications were let go. He tells me he is a computer professional with over 20 years experience. He was laid off and has yet to find a job. He states: I believe has a history of hiring H-1B computer personnel at the expense of qualified American citizens. Another Iowan from Cedar Falls wrote in support of our review of the H-1B program. He is a computer programmer with a master's degree and over 20 years of work experience in that field. He says: Despite all of my qualifications, in the last four years I have applied to over 3,700 positions and have received no job offers. He believes he is in constant competition with H-1B visa holders.

I received a letter from a man in Arizona who works for a company that employs dozens of H-1B workers. When he asked his supervisor why so many foreign nationals were being hired, the head of human resources said: If the company has an American and a person from India, both with the same skill set, the company will hire the person from India because they can pay them less. These are firsthand stories from U.S. workers. I ask those begging for an increase in foreign workers to explain these cases to me. Why are Americans struggling to get jobs as software developers, data processors, and program analysts? Senator Durbin and I inquired with several foreign-based companies that use the H-1B program. Rather than sending a letter to all companies that use the program, which would be over 200 companies, we decided to start our investigation with foreign-based entities. Our intention was to learn how foreign companies are using our visas. We learned that the top nine foreign-based companies used 20,000 visas in 2006.

Think of what a high percentage that is of the 85,000, just nine foreign-based companies, 20,000 visas in the year 2006. I say that twice for emphasis. It just so happens that Indian companies are using one-third of the available visas we allocate each year, but there is more to learn. We are not done asking questions. We, meaning Senator Durbin and I, continue to talk to U.S.-based companies and companies in our own States that use the program. The Citizenship and Immigration Service also has concerns. Our review has prompted discussion among the executive branch, businesses, labor unions, and workers, and workers are the ones we are concerned about. So we are not the only ones asking questions.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service is also worried about fraud in the program. This agency's investigative arm, that subdivision called the Fraud Detection and National Security unit, is doing a fraud assessment of the H-1B and L visa programs. I asked the unit to brief my staff on their work, and they reported they are not finished with analyzing the data. Senator Collins of Maine and I put the agency on notice that we are anxiously awaiting this report so we may continue our quest to reform the program appropriately. In the meantime, the bill Senator Durbin and I introduced includes measures to rein in the abuse. It goes a long ways to close some loopholes to protect American workers. It is our hope that these measures will bring the program back to its original mission; that is, to help U.S.-based companies find highly skilled workers to fill the shortage for a temporary period of time. That is what the H-1B visa program is all about. Under current law, companies can bring in foreign workers on an H-1B visa without first attempting to hire an American.

Our bill would require every employer to attest that it is not displacing a U.S. worker by hiring an H-1B visa holder and that the employer has taken good-faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the jobs in which an H-1B visa holder is being sought. Why would anyone oppose this measure? Our bill also gives more oversight and investigative authority to the Department of Labor. Right now the Department may only review labor certification for ``clear indication of fraud and misrepresentation.'' The Secretary of Labor is unable to review applications for anything but what the law calls incompleteness and cannot initiate an investigation unless requested. This means the Labor Department in effect is required to turn a blind eye to information that is suspicious.

To remedy this problem, our bill provides the Department of Labor the ability to initiate an investigation on its own and gives the Department of Labor more time to review applications. The Department could also do random audits of any company that uses the program. Aside from these measures, our bill would prohibit employers to only advertise available jobs to H-1B visa holders. It would encourage information sharing between the Department of Labor and the Department of Homeland Security. It would double the penalties for employer noncompliance with the H-1B program requirements. I am happy to report that most of these commonsense solutions were included in the immigration bill. I challenge any of my colleagues to oppose these needed reforms before we talk about increasing the number of H-1B visas or at the very least in conjunction with that process.

Today I take the floor to tell my colleagues that I am willing to work on this issue before the end of the year. I know businesses want more visas. I know groups that represent workers and visa holders want reforms. I know the American people want a sensible system in place that gives their children a chance at these highly skilled jobs. Some of my colleagues think the solution is increasing the annual cap on H-1B visas and doing nothing else. Before we agree to import more foreign workers, let's restore integrity in this H-1B program. The system needs a makeover. I am willing to consider an increase in the H-1B visa supply, but only if reforms are included. We must fix the loopholes before we just allow more foreign workers to come in and take jobs that Americans want to do. I would think my colleagues would want this program to work as it was intended by its original authors. My colleagues should want to protect the jobs of our various constituencies and help our businesses find the workers they truly need.

is when they get bombarded with EMail, Marches, Protests.
Getting average citizens aware of what is going on so they
write letters.call or Email. Otherwise they just vote to
please corporate interests.

This is why the Christian coalition is so effective.

"
We are not going to have a Candidate who cannot be called A Corporatist.
Both HRC and Obama have to pass muster with the DLC. This is the
way it is. "

donkey and elephant puppets from the same puppeteer

which is my whole point

Why does'nt Obama get after McCain for visiting Columbia and Mexico (and Canada earlier) to push "free trade" deals, instead of waffling on NAFTA and appointing a pro-NAFTA economic advisor to match McCain's Carly Fiorina (the Hatchet woman of Hewlett Packard and a big H-1B promoter) economic advisor? When will the party figure out that "free trade" policy and guestworker based immigration policy are two sides of the same coin?

Get out and vote. Fuck staying home on election day(s)!

before the elections, i contacted every candidate

their aids pretty much said 'not enough people care about this', and let me know that i didnt count

dont blame me for losing close elections, when your party is this hostile to anyone who raises VAILD criticisms

before the election it's 'we dont need your vote'

after the election it's 'it's your fault we lost'

which is it?

nobody who sells out my occupation gets my vote, period

regardless of past party loyalty

loyalty is a two way street

I'm going to miss you when you're gone. Shortly.

your only focus is that 'he criticize party'

'no criticize party'

I WAS a Democrat, now an independent

you think you can afford to tell the independents of this country with valid points to go to hell, well, good luck

hasnt worked too well for you this decade ;)

:rofl:

This is the most fun I've had all day.

you seem like a limited person

:rofl:

Go on, please.

:rofl:

in the wind. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I think he votes. :D

Not with his 'democrat' party buddies?

Chuck Grassley

just google grassley h-1b

that's a heck of a lot more important than voting for someone who sellls you out

(and yes, I'll vote my first republican vote for Grassley, he EARNED it)

:spray:

:rofl:

a way of "insourcing" if you will, jobs that Americans are traditionally paid well to do. They're being undercut by imported cheaper labor.

But voting republican? That's a bit extreme.

'But voting republican? That's a bit extreme.'

is it really extreme to vote for a man who listened to you, then took up this issue on the senate floor on behalf of American workers?

(Yes, I'd vote for his co-sponsor, Dick Durbin and ally Bernie Sanders, but I'm in Iowa, not Illinois or vermont)




12/06/2007

Senator Grassley sponsored H-1B Supplemental Fee legislation which the Senate passed but collapsed. In the "unrelated" "Farm" Bill session, the Senator requested a ten-minute time and made the following statement on the Senate floor.

Mr. President, earlier this year, the Senate tried to solve the very complex and emotional issue of immigration reform. The immigration bill we considered included border security, interior enforcement, and amnesty. It also included many needed reforms to our legal immigration process. I said throughout the debate that Congress needs a long-term solution to the immigration issue. We cannot pass a bandaid approach that includes a path to citizenship for law breakers; rather, Congress needs to improve our legal immigration channels. I firmly believe companies want to hire legal workers, and people want to enter the United States legally. If we fix our visa policies, we can restore integrity to our immigration system, and all parties can benefit.

But if we cannot pass a comprehensive bill--and I think as time goes on it is going to look more difficult as we go into an election year--if we cannot pass such a comprehensive bill, I think that we should consider passing legislation we can agree on. I am taking the floor at this time to talk about the H-1B visa provisions that were included in the immigration bill and ask my colleagues to take a second look at these needed reforms. Many companies use H-1B programs. It has served a valuable purpose. But we need to reevaluate how this program operates and work to make it more effective.

The H-1B program was officially created in 1990, although we have brought foreign workers legally into our country for over 30 years. It was brought into existence to serve American employers that needed high-tech workers. It was created to file a void in the U.S. labor force. The visa holders were intended to file jobs for a temporary amount of time, while the country invested in American workers to pick up the skills our economy needed. We attached fees to the visas that now bring in millions of dollars. These fees and the dollars that come with it are invested in training grants to educate our own workforce. We use the funds to put kids through school for science, technology, engineering, and math skills. We provide students with scholarships with the hope that they will replace imported foreign workers. Unfortunately, the H-1B program is so popular, it is now replacing the U.S. labor force rather than supplementing it.

The high-tech and business community is begging Congress to raise or eliminate the annual cap that currently stands at 85,000 visas each year. These numbers do not include and account for those who are exempt from the cap. For instance, we don't count employees at institutions of higher education or nonprofit research organizations. We don't count those who change jobs or renew their H-1B visa. My point is, we have many more than 85,000 H-1B visas distributed each year. I am here to tell my colleagues that increasing the visa supply is not the only solution to the so-called shortage of high-tech workers. Since March of this year, the Senator from Illinois, Mr. Durbin, and I have taken a good look at the H-1B visa program. We have raised issues with the Citizenship and Immigration Service as well as the Department of Labor. We have asked questions of companies that use the H-1B visa, and I have raised issues with attorneys who advise their clients on how to get around the permanent employment regulations.

I would like to share what I have learned. I want to give some fraud and abuse examples. Unfortunately, there are some bad apples in the H-1B visa program. In 2005, a man was charged with fraud and misuse of visas, money laundering, and mail fraud for his participation in a multistate scam to smuggle Indian and Pakistani nationals into the United States with fraudulently obtained H-1B visas. The man created fictitious companies, often renting only a cubicle simply to have a mailing address. He fabricated tax returns and submitted over 1,000 false visa petitions. Another man pled guilty last August to charges of fraud and conspiracy. This man and an attorney charged foreign nationals thousands of dollars to fraudulently obtain H-1B visas. He provided false documents to substantiate their H-1B petitions.

The Programmer's Guild, a group representing U.S. worker interests, filed over 300 discrimination complaints in the first half of 2006 against companies that posted ``H-1B visa holder only'' ads on job boards. Anyone can go on the Internet and find jobs that target H-1B visa holders. There are more than just national anecdotes, however. Everyday Americans are affected. Since looking into the H-1B visa program, some of my constituents have come to me and spoken out against abuses they see. One of my constituents has shared copies of e-mails showing how he is often bombarded with requests by companies that want to lease their H-1B workers to that Iowan. There are companies with H-1B workers who are so-called ``on the bench,'' meaning they are ready to be deployed to a project. Hundreds of foreign workers are standing by waiting for work. Some call these H-1B ``factory firms.'' This Iowan even said one company went so far as to require him to sign a memorandum of understanding that helps the H-1B factory firm justify to the Federal Government that they have adequate business opportunity that requires additional visa holders. It is a complete falsification of the market justification for additional H-1B workers. These firms are making a commodity out of H-1B workers.

They have visa holders but are looking for work. It is supposed to be the other way around. There should be a shortage or a need, first and foremost. Then and only then do we allow foreign workers to fill these jobs temporarily. Another constituent sent me a letter saying that he saw firsthand how foreign workers were brought in while Iowans with similar qualifications were let go. He tells me he is a computer professional with over 20 years experience. He was laid off and has yet to find a job. He states: I believe has a history of hiring H-1B computer personnel at the expense of qualified American citizens. Another Iowan from Cedar Falls wrote in support of our review of the H-1B program. He is a computer programmer with a master's degree and over 20 years of work experience in that field. He says: Despite all of my qualifications, in the last four years I have applied to over 3,700 positions and have received no job offers. He believes he is in constant competition with H-1B visa holders.

I received a letter from a man in Arizona who works for a company that employs dozens of H-1B workers. When he asked his supervisor why so many foreign nationals were being hired, the head of human resources said: If the company has an American and a person from India, both with the same skill set, the company will hire the person from India because they can pay them less. These are firsthand stories from U.S. workers. I ask those begging for an increase in foreign workers to explain these cases to me. Why are Americans struggling to get jobs as software developers, data processors, and program analysts? Senator Durbin and I inquired with several foreign-based companies that use the H-1B program. Rather than sending a letter to all companies that use the program, which would be over 200 companies, we decided to start our investigation with foreign-based entities. Our intention was to learn how foreign companies are using our visas. We learned that the top nine foreign-based companies used 20,000 visas in 2006.

Think of what a high percentage that is of the 85,000, just nine foreign-based companies, 20,000 visas in the year 2006. I say that twice for emphasis. It just so happens that Indian companies are using one-third of the available visas we allocate each year, but there is more to learn. We are not done asking questions. We, meaning Senator Durbin and I, continue to talk to U.S.-based companies and companies in our own States that use the program. The Citizenship and Immigration Service also has concerns. Our review has prompted discussion among the executive branch, businesses, labor unions, and workers, and workers are the ones we are concerned about. So we are not the only ones asking questions.

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service is also worried about fraud in the program. This agency's investigative arm, that subdivision called the Fraud Detection and National Security unit, is doing a fraud assessment of the H-1B and L visa programs. I asked the unit to brief my staff on their work, and they reported they are not finished with analyzing the data. Senator Collins of Maine and I put the agency on notice that we are anxiously awaiting this report so we may continue our quest to reform the program appropriately. In the meantime, the bill Senator Durbin and I introduced includes measures to rein in the abuse. It goes a long ways to close some loopholes to protect American workers. It is our hope that these measures will bring the program back to its original mission; that is, to help U.S.-based companies find highly skilled workers to fill the shortage for a temporary period of time. That is what the H-1B visa program is all about. Under current law, companies can bring in foreign workers on an H-1B visa without first attempting to hire an American.

Our bill would require every employer to attest that it is not displacing a U.S. worker by hiring an H-1B visa holder and that the employer has taken good-faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the jobs in which an H-1B visa holder is being sought. Why would anyone oppose this measure? Our bill also gives more oversight and investigative authority to the Department of Labor. Right now the Department may only review labor certification for ``clear indication of fraud and misrepresentation.'' The Secretary of Labor is unable to review applications for anything but what the law calls incompleteness and cannot initiate an investigation unless requested. This means the Labor Department in effect is required to turn a blind eye to information that is suspicious.

To remedy this problem, our bill provides the Department of Labor the ability to initiate an investigation on its own and gives the Department of Labor more time to review applications. The Department could also do random audits of any company that uses the program. Aside from these measures, our bill would prohibit employers to only advertise available jobs to H-1B visa holders. It would encourage information sharing between the Department of Labor and the Department of Homeland Security. It would double the penalties for employer noncompliance with the H-1B program requirements. I am happy to report that most of these commonsense solutions were included in the immigration bill. I challenge any of my colleagues to oppose these needed reforms before we talk about increasing the number of H-1B visas or at the very least in conjunction with that process.

Today I take the floor to tell my colleagues that I am willing to work on this issue before the end of the year. I know businesses want more visas. I know groups that represent workers and visa holders want reforms. I know the American people want a sensible system in place that gives their children a chance at these highly skilled jobs. Some of my colleagues think the solution is increasing the annual cap on H-1B visas and doing nothing else. Before we agree to import more foreign workers, let's restore integrity in this H-1B program. The system needs a makeover. I am willing to consider an increase in the H-1B visa supply, but only if reforms are included. We must fix the loopholes before we just allow more foreign workers to come in and take jobs that Americans want to do. I would think my colleagues would want this program to work as it was intended by its original authors. My colleagues should want to protect the jobs of our various constituencies and help our businesses find the workers they truly need.

I'd rather weigh all the issues, and see who is more in line overall with what I believe.

I understand your POV, though. :)

it's a pretty big issue

You can't bitch if you don't vote. I don't care what George Carlin said.

No candidate can fix everything. They have to set priorities and stick to the main issues.

Not voting isn't punishing anyone, and proves nothing to the people who win or lose. You're like the kids in school who think I'll suffer if they refuse to do their work. The only one who loses is you.

I contacted every candidate in Iowa about this last month

I visited the office of every rep, and Grassley did hear me

just google Grassley h-1b

Well, WE vote for one. And donate. And Volunteer by making calls and walking neighborhoods.

What are YOU doing about it?

I kid you not - never would have guessed she was such an advocate for working people

http://www.bendweekly.com/Opinion/12315.html

Bill Clinton was elected president in 1992 using James Carville's slogan "It's the economy, stupid." The Democrats thus capitalized on a temporary economic recession during the last year of George H.W. Bush's administration.

Could 2008 be a repeat performance? The falling stock market, rising unemployment, skyrocketing oil prices, subprime mortgage collapse and the Michigan recession have moved to front and center in the primaries.

Will the Republicans get it? Or will they just keep mouthing their tired mantras about free trade, the global economy, the world is flat, we have to be more competitive, send more students to community colleges and teach more math and science?

Will the Democrats get it, or just keep mouthing their Big Government mantras that we need more taxpayer-paid social services? The liberal New York Times calls on us to "embrace globalization," and to compensate for job losses (which it speaks of with elitist disdain as "dislocations") by extended unemployment benefits, more progressive taxation, tax-paid lifetime retraining of workers, socialized medicine and more income handouts to low-wage workers through the Earned Income Tax Credit

Can I keep you?

:rofl:

Bwahahahahaha.

I guess I must either not be a worker or not be a person, because she's the one who led the fight against the ERA, which would have protected me from unequal pay and other discrimination based on gender. Not that it matters to her and her ilk, since I should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen according to them.

Can't you see how important Schafley could be for the Democrat party?

:rofl:

and i didnt say i agreed with her past issues

but did you even read the article?

do you disagree with what she's saying NOW?

The answer must be there somewhere. :shrug:

Provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act protect you from gender discrimination in the workplace.

ERA would have been great, but there is some statutory relief available and the statute is enforced.

although arguably, they DO specialize in discrimination

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

Sometimes, a prospective plaintiff needs to do a little shopping around.

probably not the kind they wanted

Who are tired of globalization and tired of the open border situation, and they were amazed that the words were coming from her.

BTW the sentence wherein the NYT states how the Earned Income Tax credit can be expanded to more low income earners - gosh -- that probably really resonates with Mr or Mrs. American Laid Off Research Scientist who is now in his/her Forties or Fifties, and has watched the research labs go overseas.

Must be REAL nice to go to school and get one if not two majors and one if not two master's degrees, and then in your career prime be laid off. With only Earned Income Tax breaks to help.

Maybe we should start deposing some of these editors and financial experts at the big newspaper - offering their jobs to Pakistanis and Indians. Would save headquarters some big money.

Don't see why we can't?

on whether i'm sincere or not, with almost no consideration of the topic whatsoever

people, American workers are in trouble - REAL trouble, and it's not because they are stupid, lazy, uneducated or 'uncompetative'

they're smart, hardworking, inovative and educated, but they're getting SCREWED by globalization, and both parties are in on it

they're constantly told they are unworthy of the society they built, so it must be packed up and sent overseas

is red vs blue really more important than your own livelyhoods?

Why, oh why must we be so ignorant? :cry:

CURSE THE DEMOCRAT PARTY!!!!!!!!!!! :cry::cry::cry::cry:

as a democrat

if you know the H-1b issue, it's UNBELIEVABLE that this guy ran as a Democrat, supposedly a party of working people!!!

NOBODY is a bigger enemy of American workers, than him

here's a flyer Jim Web (who won) made, it seems extreme, but he's absolutely right

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/webb_flyer_color.pdf

'truley one of the bad guys' says the union

when things are this bad, the party has to be criticized

a party of working people has no business running an outsourcing lobbyist

I'm re-posting this there

so that we can have the strongest economy in the world. It isn't a sellout to the working class, but bringing the best people in this country.

i've had to train many foreign workers on h-1b who were way, way below the average American entry level programmer of the early 1990s

and if they're the 'best and the brightest', why do I have to spend MY time training THEM?

I'm not going to deny that there are abuses in the system, like many other social programs. However, it would be absurd to ban h-1b outright, because the US still needs the talent to support its economy based on innovation.

The focus should be on making the current system more robust, instead of banning h-1b. This isn't a simple black and white issue, and a good compromise is needed instead of knee-jerk reactions.

'it's pretty far from ok'

I havent said 'reduce skilled immigration to absolute zero'

But, they're talking about increasing it from a level that may be as high as 400,000 per year, that's INSANE!

400,000?

65,000 'regular H-1b'
20,000 'so called master's only'
? number exempt from above cap -> anyone from chile, singapore, anyone deployed at educational, 'non-profit', or 'research' even if employed by a for profit body shop

up to 315,000 L1 visas that can be used interchangably with H-1b *

* source http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-visas_1.html

anytime you hear the word 'innovation' spoken from someone who's never worked a day of their life in tech, watch out

Bringing in people at low wages who can't leave and have no rights.

I work in IT and the company is laying off 50% of the American staff this year and replacing them with offshore resources. Managemen is open about the reason, cost.

And this is not a highly innovative area, we're talking about people maintaing billing programs written in COBOL. You don't have to go around the world for that skill.

dave_fl_50, thanks for contributing

you work in IT, you 'get it'

H-1b is a labor busting baseball bat applied to IT labor, period. It's a level of viciousness in labor relations unprecidented, at least in the white collar world, unheard of as recently as 15 years ago, and now completely universal - in every county of every state

Seems like anyone inside IT understands this, and very few outside, do

No ifs ands or butts, the Democratic party has sold IT workers out.

Why do you think party members outside of IT can't get this?

to do basic clerical work. Microsoft may have a reason to recruit some people from overseas but the Indian body shops staffing low tech business bring them in by the thousands.

there are plenty of the best and brightest right here. companies just don't want to pay them what they're worth.

The corporate pols don't have to change their position because they know people will still vote for them.

<Edit to add> And the people who haven't been burned (yet) have NO sympathy for those who have.

"And the people who haven't been burned (yet) have NO sympathy for those who have."

i've found that both sad and shocking

:rofl:

Did they surgically remove the "r"?

because it's a labor model that can spread to all of corporate white collar - former fed reserve vice chairman allan blinder thinks it could wipe out 30-40 million jobs

tech was just the guinea pig for the labor model

it really isnt about tech, it's about wages

that this poster was DRIVEN to look outside the Democratic party?

Outsourcing and insourcing to H-1b holders is a REAL PROBLEM. It is absolutely shameful that ANY Democratic politician supports this program when thousands of IT professionals are out of work.

You try to get a job in some other country some time. It's damned near impossible. They protect their own workers, and they won't let people in just to look for a job, except in special cases like the Working Holiday visa for youth or ESL, where they want native speakers.

When I tried for academic jobs in Canada, I was told that I had to be a legal resident of Canada before they'd even look at my application, and that they had plenty of qualified college professors, thank you.

He was not who he claimed to be, and I would rather argue this point with REAL progressives.

p.s. Don't be fooled by the mysterious new poster, who is the same in every way but is missing an "r".

which is that few Congresscritters, Dems or otherwise, have been willing to confront the DLC orthodoxy about how wonderful it is to seek out the workers with the lowest possible wages.

many people opperate on 'who's right' rather than 'what's right'

not everyone has the capacity to think for themselves

thanks for 'getting it'

it's absolutely insane during a combination fiscal stimulus exhustion/budgetary crisis to talk about spending money to 'create jobs' and simultaniously talk about increasing H-1b visas when you already have a surplus of workers in tech. This youtube video shows how totally absurd the situation has become.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

One real easy way to increase employment, is let citizens work in tech after age 40. all the bla bla bla about 'not keeping up' is pure rubbish. it's age discrimination, plain and simple. I saw it during interviews *from the interviewing team side* in my early 30's. It wasnt 'whining' for me to see it back then, because at the moment, it inflated my own value for a couple of years. But it made me sick, because I knew what was in store for me, one way or another. H-1b is a primary enforcer of tech age discrimination culture. The 'Sandman' of a 'Logan's Run' culture if you will. But now, it even puts younger Americans in the same situation, as the youtube video above shows

A party of 'working people' has no business supporting a policy of H-1b, no business at all. Even 65,000 per year is a very high number, there aren't that many 'Einsteins' in any given graduating class, and most H-1b's I've had to train were way below the average American citizen tech worker. But volume demolishes a market. That's the whole idea, to rig the tech labor market. Econ 101

... bought the globalization meme the right has been pushing since the 80s. As a party, we have been co-opted by the DLC types who seem to basically believe in "supply side" economics, globalization, and all thing corporate.

That's just where the party is right now although I believe the current and to be future economic morass is going to start changing that.

i think the DLC/Democratic party thought 'we'll take the money from corporate America, then look out for working people'

and corporate America just smiled

Until more people, many more people, wake up and realize that not only have they been sold out BUT that they have been complicit in their own screwing. It is no secret that the majority of Americans have been convinced to vote against their own economic self-interest. The H1B-visa fiasco is but one of the many issues on which the middle-class have been screwed.

There is no mainstream candidate speaking out against H1Bs. No mainstream candidate speaking out for increased tariffs to bring back manufacturing.

Globalization is a scam for the continued growth of the corpocracy. I see no end in sight, no matter who is elected in November.

many people think 'well, that's just a tech thing, it's a special situation, it doesnt affect me'

it's not. ANY part of the middle class, no matter what occupation or sector, that found itself in a position to increase it's earnings through an increase in productivity (and tech workers through the 1990s did exactly that * ), would find itself attacked to push those wages back down. kind of like a corporate 'whack a mole' to keep the middle class down

( * the increase in tech worker skill and productivity through the 1990s with client/server development was amazing, with programmers often serving as their own Data base analyst))

Like the recession we're currently in.

No candidate is talking about the fundamental causes of it and how to make things better.

Saying that this is a "housing crisis" or a "sub-prime mortgage" crisis is taking a short view.

The phoney rapacious "global" economy of ours is rotten to the core. It's only good for short term profiteers. The only thing that's kept us afloat for the last five years has been cheap money created by the boatload. And now the party's over and the chicken have come home to roost.

"The phoney rapacious "global" economy of ours is rotten to the core. It's only good for short term profiteers. The only thing that's kept us afloat for the last five years has been cheap money created by the boatload. And now the party's over and the chicken have come home to roost."

until people get that, they understand nothing. Perot, while not being a perfect man (he's a big H-1b user) at least tried to give the country a 'heads up' in 1992, saying 'you dont want to go down this road'. meaning that debt and globalism meant potential doom. As for his h-1b hypocrisy, he may have just said to himself 'i tried to warn them, and i'm not going down with them'

(I speculate that Perot, being a big shot, got invited to elite meetings in the late 1980s, early 1990s when all this stuff was being planned, was repelled by it and became a renegade, fueled by a mixture of both patriotism and ego)

even though many of the corporations still have the same name

think about the implications of that

it means that the dominent influence in the United States is indifferent to the future of the United States

and it shows

As the mega-corps knock down all barriers to trade,,,,,,,, as well as control.

It's not paranoid. Kncoking down some barriers to free/fair trade is a good idea.

But too much of a good idea is a bad idea.

is that all our dollars paid for 'defense' are not defending OUR country, but rather SOMEONE ELSE'S empire, and that we are nothing but serfs to be squeezed

if we continue to do nothing

There is nothing to do. In our foney, "for show" Democracy, we only have the opportunity to vote. The last shot was the newly elected Democratic COngress. A big fat Zero on that, I'm sorry to say.

I've taken up gardening. Keeps me sane. Speaking of gardening, it's my day off, the sun is out, time for me to say my good-bye's.

Take care.

400,000?

65,000 'regular H-1b'
20,000 'so called master's only'
? number exempt from above cap -> anyone from chile, singapore, anyone deployed at educational, 'non-profit', or 'research' even if employed by a for profit body shop

up to 315,000 L1 visas that can be used interchangably with H-1b *

source - http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-visas_1.html

they tell you 65,000 h-1b visas over and over

but there's miles and miles of fine print

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23138127-5013411,00.html

the varsity, of course, being the repukes

what 2 industries had the most foreign 'guest workers'?

tech, and home construction

and both had disasterous bubbles

rising wages are an economic signal to 'slow down'

suppression of wages suppresses an important economic signal, and bubbles are ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS a result of ignoring economic signals

and none of them will get my vote

How, as we enter a recession (and possible depression), with a tightening labor market, does it make ANY sense to "insource" jobs, at whatever level, other than to increase corporate profits; corporations which have no sense of loyalty to America and its workers.

Perhaps in a time of robust economic activity, and full employment at home, we could afford to choose among highly skilled H1-b applicants in order to advance in the international technological race...but industry should be required to pay these applicants "standard of the industry wages" no matter how much this inflates an applicants wages.

The nation is facing a time of growing economic pain; our first responsibility is to our own citizens. Sorry if that isn't "one worldly" enough for everyone.

pressures mounting that might increase tech wages?

'sorry, tech earnings are capped' (can't even increase to take inflation into account)

pressures mounting that might cause you to lose your job and move your earnings to zero?

'sorry, it's a free market'

a free market where the door only swings one way - into the face of the American worker

and yes, BOTH PARTIES are in on it

don't let the true believers get you down. The dems have capitulated to out sourcing lobbyists and multinationals. This is a plan to suppress technology wages, pure and simple.

in the 2006 Virginia Democrat Senate primary

if you know the H-1b issue, it's UNBELIEVABLE that this guy ran as a Democrat, supposedly a party of working people!!!

NOBODY is a bigger enemy of American workers, than him

here's a flyer Jim Webb (who won) made, it seems extreme, but he's absolutely right

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/webb_flyer_color.pdf

'truley one of the bad guys' says the union

when things are this bad, the party has to be criticized

a party of working people has no business running an outsourcing lobbyist

Harris Miller made a lucrative career relentlessly slandering American workers

just google 'Harris Miller' h-1b, you'll get a zillion hits

Everybody knows what Clinton supports.

Edards co-sponsored the biggest H-1b increase ever in 2000 S-2045, and after all the damage it did to American workers, still supported raising it fall 2007

http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/Library/Politicians/Edwards.htm

"Edwards, too, had used events in Silicon Valley to call for increasing the number of H-1B visas for highly trained technical foreign workers, more government support of broadband access, and extension of research and development tax credits."


from

http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2007/11/15/chronicle/archive/2007/11/15/MN5BTCBP4.html


Obama

Nov '07
'I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program '

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/26/qa-with-senator-barack-obama-on-key-technology-issues/

the one Edwards lives in, and the one he put American tech workers into

'it's not what it looks like!' - lol (it almost always is)

from Orwell's 'Animal Farm'

The mystery of where the milk went to was soon cleared up. It was mixed every day into the pigs' mash. The early apples were now ripening, and the grass of the orchard was littered with windfalls. The animals had assumed as a matter of course that these would be shared out equally; one day, however, the order went forth that all the windfalls were to be collected and brought to the harness-room for the use of the pigs. At this some of the other animals murmured, but it was no use. All the pigs were in full agreement on this point, even Snowball and Napoleon. Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the others.

"Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would come back! Surely, comrades," cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from side to side and whisking his tail, "surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?"

Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light, they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened) should be reserved for the pigs alone.

just like the repukes

Recently Wipro Chairman Azim Premji had said: "If we hire people locally, it will displace people we send from here on H1B visas. So net-net, it will not mean an extra cost to us." If this happens, there will be fewer plum jobs for the boys in India.

http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2008/feb/18cut.htm

Hillary Clinton
"I also want to reaffirm my commitment to the H-1B visa program and to increase the current cap. Foreign skilled workers contribute greatly to our technological development. That is well understood in Silicon Valley."

John McCain
"I will continue to support H-1B visas, but, I’m telling you, the American peoples priority is, either rightly or wrongly, and we live in a democracy, is that we secure the borders first."

Barack Obama
"We can do better than that and go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively."

http://weblog.infoworld.com/realitycheck/archives/2008/02/the_three_presi.html

But in Buffalo, the fruits of the Tata deal have been hard to find. The company, which called the arrangement Clinton's "brainchild," says "about 10" employees work here. Tata says most of the new employees were hired from around Buffalo. It declines to say whether any of the new jobs are held by foreigners, who make up 90% of Tata's 10,000-employee workforce in the United States"

The quote from John Miano at the Programmer's Guild reminds me very much of the criticisms faced by Harris Miller in last year's Virginia Dem. primary

"It's just two-faced," said John Miano, founder of the Programmers Guild, one of several high-tech worker organizations that have sprung up as outsourcing has expanded. "We see her undermining U.S. workers and helping the offshoring business, and then she comes back to the U.S. and says, 'I'm concerned about your pain

http://modernpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/09/hillary-clinton-supports-destruction-of.html

http://bp2.blogger.com/_d9PxlbCXrxA/RuyouHU0hII/AAAAAAAAAAc/eB1_hnP758g/s1600-h/Hillary-Tata+Smooch.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOW0cUaGWZU

my opinion - you should NEVER introduce yourself as the Senator from anywhere but the state that elected you

http://www.sikhcouncilusa.org/article.aspx?article=evtdinner




Hillary Clinton bowls over Indian MPs promises H1B increase

http://www.plex86.org/computer_2/Hillary-Clinton-bowls-over-Indian-MPs-promises-H1B-increase.html

Hillary says 'TA TA' to American jobs

http://bp2.blogger.com/_d9PxlbCXrxA/RuyouHU0hII/AAAAAAAAAAc/eB1_hnP758g/s200/Hillary-Tata+Smooch.jpg

(Isn't that a nice picture, hillary selling out American workers)

I'm not making this up. watch this brief Lou Dobbs clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

Hillary clears outsourcing air
Hillary Clinton made it apparent where she stood on outsourcing during her India visit, in an attempt perhaps to clear the Indian misgivings received during the Kerry campaign. "There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she told an audience of Indian big-wigs. She pointed out that there were 3 billion people who feel left behind and are trying to attack the modern world in the hope of turning the clock back on globalization. "It is not far-fetched to imagine ... if the Indian miracle would be the one of choice of those who feel left behind," said Hillary.

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html

(It's nice that she speaks to workers telling them she will fight for them. But why is she doing that in India?)

Does Obama ever talk with his fellow Democrat senator from illinois? or was he out campaigning the day Durbin made the speech below. Read it entirly - its a stunningly complete indictment of the H-1b program:

Mr. President, in the coming weeks the Senate will again consider legislation to reform our broken immigration system.

I think we all understand the challenge is substantial. If we want to solve the problem, we need a comprehensive approach that is tough but fair. We should improve border security by increasing manpower and deploying new technology. We should enforce the law against employers who are hiring millions of undocumented workers. And we need a realistic, honest approach to the 12 million undocumented immigrants who live and work in our country illegally.

Most importantly, we must ensure that immigration reform legislation protects the American economy and American workers as well.

I am concerned about the H-1B visa program as it is currently
structured. I am afraid it is being abused by foreign companies to deprive qualified Americans of good jobs.

To address this problem, Senator Grassley and I have introduced S. 1035, the H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud Abuse Prevention Act of 2007. This is a bipartisan bill. It would overhaul the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to protect American workers and crack down on unscrupulous employers.

The H-1B visa program was designed to allow employers to attract and hire high-skilled foreign workers with specialized knowledge. H-1B visas are probably best known for their use in technology to import computer engineers and programmers.

I can't tell you how many leaders in industry, including one this afternoon, come into my office and say: We absolutely need H-1B visas. We can't find enough people specialized education for our businesses. If you won't allow us to bring these workers in from overseas, we are going to be facing the possibility of taking our production facilities overseas where they live.

It is a compelling argument. I understand it on its face. But let me explain some of the problems with the current system and why Senator Grassley and I believe the system needs to be changed.

Supporters claim the goal of the H-1B program is to help the American economy by allowing U.S. companies to hire needed foreign workers. The reality is that H-1B visas are being used to facilitate the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries. It seems counterintuitive that a visa that allows people to come into the United States could lead to jobs being outsourced overseas, but when you hear my illustrations, you will understand the conclusion.

A recent expose in the International Herald Tribune disclosed that 8 of the top 10 H-1B visa applicants last year were outsourcing firms with major operations in one country--India. So in many cases it wasn't the American high tech company using the H-1B visa that was given this opportunity but, rather, a firm, more likely in India than any other country, that was given the authority to use H-1B visas to send workers into the United States. The Herald Tribune concluded:



As Indian outsourcing companies have become the leading consumers of the visa, they have used to it further their primary mission, which is to gain the expertise necessary to take on critical tasks performed by companies in the United States and perform them in India at a fraction of the cost.

According to this report, the Indian Government has been lobbying hard for the United States Government to increase the number of H-1B visas.

Kamal Nath, the Indian Commerce Minister, was very blunt when he said recently that the H-1B visa "has become the outsourcing visa." He concluded: "If at one point you had X amount of outsourcing and now you have a much higher quantum of outsourcing, you need that many more visas."

That is a very candid statement by this commerce minister in India. It should give us pause as we think about this program, what it was designed to do and what it is actually doing.

In other words, the Indian Government wants more H-1B visas so Indian companies can outsource more American jobs to India.

Let me be clear. India is a valuable American partner in commerce, diplomacy, and many other endeavors. Indians who have come to the United States have made immeasurable contributions to the benefit of our country in so many ways. I trust them as great friends. But some in India todayu nderstand that we have a weakness in our visa system and are using it for their own economic advantage.

It is not surprising the Indian Government is advocating on behalf of Indian companies. The American Government should advocate on behalf of American companies. I don't criticize the Indian Government for doing that. But we should expect the same from our Government for our workers. We need to stand up to make sure American workers don't lose their jobs to outsourcing because of H-1B visas.

H-1B supporters claim we need more H-1B visas to stop American jobs from being outsourced. That was the logic behind H-1B visas. It appears the opposite is true. Under the current system, more H-1B visas will mean more outsourcing.

Let me give an example. Indian outsourcing company Wipro was No. 2 on the list of top applicants for H-1B visas in the year 2006. Wipro has more than 4,000 employees in the United States, and approximately 2,500 of them are here on H-1B visas. It is pretty clear that when it comes to Wipro's American operation, the majority of the workers are here on H-1B visas. Every year Wipro brings 1,000 new temporary workers here from India, while they send another 1,000 U.S. trained workers back to India. This is essentially an outsourcing factory.

Here is what the Herald Tribune concluded:

"Rather than building a thriving community of experts and innovators in the United States, the
Indian firms seek to funnel work--and expertise--away from the country."

It is hard to believe, but it is perfectly legal to use the H-1B visa program for outsourcing. A foreign outsourcing company with a U.S. office can use H-1B visas to import workers from their home country, train the workers in the United States, and then outsource them back to their home country to populate businesses competing with the United States. They are not required to make any efforts to recruit American workers for these jobs. In fact, they can explicitly discriminate against American workers who apply for the same jobs by recruiting and hiring only workers from their home country.

Here is what the Labor Department says about the current law:

"H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of a foreign worker."

Is that what we had in mind with H-1B visas? That certainly wasn't the way it was explained to me. In fact, under current law, only employers who employ H-1B visa holders as a large percentage of their U.S. workforce are required to attempt to recruit American workers before bringing in foreign workers.

Senator Grassley and I have taken a look at this system. We both reject the notion that what is wrong with the H-1B program is that we need more visas. We have to look at the system that generates these visas and the way they are used. The legislation we have introduced would overhaul the H-1B program, protecting American workers first, and stopping H-1Bs from being exploited as outsourcing visas.

Here are the highlights. First and foremost, we would require all employers who want to hire an H-1B worker to attempt to hire an American worker first. Employers would also be prohibited from using H-1B visas to displace American workers. You can't fire an American and turn around and appeal to our Government for an H-1B visa to bring someone in from overseas to replace that worker.

This is an important principle. We have to make it clear that companies doing business in the United States have to give first priority to American workers.

Our bill would require that before an employer may hire an H-1B worker, the employer must first advertise the job opening to American workers for 30 days on the Department of Labor Web site.

Some companies that abuse the H-1B visa program are so brazen, they say "no Americans need apply" in their job advertisements. Hundreds of such ads have been posted on line. They say things such as "H-1B visa holders only" or "we require candidates for H-1B from India."

Is that what we have in mind, to create this perverse discrimination against American workers? That isn't the way it was explained to me. Our H-1B reform bill would prohibit this blatant discriminatory practice.

There is another serious problem with the H-1B visa program. Federal oversight is virtually nonexistent. Under current law there are many roadblocks to effective Government enforcement. For example, the Department of Labor does not have the authority to open an investigation of an employer suspected of abusing the H-1B program unless the Department receives a formal complaint, even if the employer's application is clearly fraudulent. Even if there is a complaint, the Labor Secretary--and this is something that is almost unique in our law--must personally authorize the opening of an investigation.

These restrictions in the law are aggravated by lax Government enforcement. According to the Department of Homeland Security's own Inspector General, Homeland Security has violated the law by approving thousands of H-1B applications in excess of the annual cap of 65,000. The Government Accountability Office found that the Labor Department approves over 99.5 percent of H-1B petitions it receives, including those that on their face clearly violate the law.

There is virtually no Government oversight of potential abuse in this system. The Labor Department's inspector general has concluded that the H-1B program is "highly susceptible to fraud." Remember, this program was designed to help the American economy, to help create jobs and prosperity in our country. Our Government is not even watching it closely to make sure that fraud isn't being perpetrated.

The bill Senator Grassley and I are proposing would give the Government more authority to conduct employer investigations and streamline the investigative process. Currently, the Labor Department is only authorized to review applications for "completeness and obvious inaccuracies." Our bill would give the Labor Department more authority to review employers' H-1B applications for "clear indicators of fraud or misrepresentation of material fact."

Our bill would authorize the Labor Department to conduct random audits of any company that uses the H-1B program and require the Department of Labor to conduct annual audits of companies that employ large numbers of H-1B workers. We would also increase the penalties for companies that violate H-1B visa rules and authorize the hiring of 200 additional Government investigators to oversee and enforce the H-1B program.

Last month, the government began accepting H-1B visa petitions for Fiscal Year 2008. In the first 24 hours, the government received 150,000 petitions for 65,000 slots, supposedly for the whole year. Based on last year's statistics, it is likely that the top petitioners for visas were companies from India. They understand the system. They understand how to make this profitable. But this is not the way it has been described to most Members of Congress. It certainly isn't consistent with our intent.

There is another program I wish to mention, the L-1 visa. The L-1 visa allows companies to transfer certain employees from foreign facilities to the United States for up to 7 years.

Experts have concluded that some employers use the L-1 program to evade restrictions on the H-1B program, because the L-1 program doesn't have an annual cap and doesn't include even minimal protections for American workers. As a result, efforts to reform the H-1B program are unlikely
to succeed if the L-1 program is not overhauled at the same time.

The bill Senator Grassley and I have prepared would reform the L-1 program.

We would establish for the first time whistleblower protections for those who call attention to employer abuses of L-1 programs, and for the first time we would authorize the Government to investigate and audit L-1 employers suspected of violating the law.

Before we are persuaded to increase the number of H-1B visas, we have to reform the program to protect American workers first and to stop H-1Bs from being used as outsourcing visas that send jobs and business away from America. That is what our bill would do, and that is what Senator Grassley and I will be pushing for as the Senate considers comprehensive immigration reform legislation.


http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/16/183114/236

Sen. Durbin is a hard working Senator, who represents the people, I am supporting his campaign. Once I get more dough, I plan on supporting other Democrats campaigns.

The reports from our NumbersUSA Capitol Hill Team today were even worse.

Incredible as it may seem amidst talk of recessions, job cuts and stagnant wages, we are finding reports and signs everywhere that House Speaker Pelosi is negotiating to give millions of U.S. jobs to foreign workers.

Please go to your own customized Action Buffet corkboard and make sure that you have sent all the faxes and made all the phone calls available to you to stop Speaker Pelosi's vile maneuverings.

And thanks to all of you have already sent nearly 100,000 faxes into Congress just this week, demanding that Congress save the dwindling number of U.S. jobs for Americans and legal immigrants already here.

It appears that the irresponsible, outlaw minority of the corporate world that insists on illegal foreign labor has a special "in" with the Democratic Speaker.

Pelosi's backroom deals appear to be motivated by fear that a group of freshmen Democrats may get most Republicans to help them force a vote on the enforcement-only SAVE Act (Secure America with Verification Enforcement). That bill -- with 145 bi-partisan signers in the House and Senate -- primarily would drive millions of illegal aliens out of their jobs.

But Pelosi is trying to ensure that if the enforcement-only bill comes to a vote it will include huge increases in H-2B and H-1B visas for foreign workers of all kinds, and that it will include millions of legal work permits for all the illegal aliens currently holding a job.

I want every American to be aware of Speaker Pelosi's callous attitude toward the 23 million, less-educated working-age Americans who do not currently have a job.

This group of Americans without any college education and without a job increased by 2 million between 2000 and 2005 at the same time Congress was importing 1.5 million foreign workers of the same education level, according to research by the Center for Immigration Studies.

Nobody in Congress has a worse grade (F-minus) than Nancy Pelosi when it comes to protecting American jobs, American wages and American working conditions from the downward pressures of massive immigration.

As the head Democrat, she stands in stark contrast to most of the newly elected Democrats who are pledged to protecting American workers and fighting illegal immigration. Unfortunately, Pelosi, the most radical Member of Congress on the immigration issue, is using her power as Speaker of the House to try to wreak even more damage on the most vulnerable of American workers and legal immigrant workers in this country. I urge all concerned Americans to contact their Members of Congress and express opposition to Rep. Pelosi's outrageous push for more foreign work visas.

Our Action Buffet Team will be providing you new opportunities for action during Wednesday.

why in the heck would we increase the competition for food gas and wages at a time like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR1Jke2NWTA&feature=related

taken out of context?

well, put it in context, watch the longer version (about 4 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU&feature=related

the Democratic party clearly supports this practice

WHY?!?!?

for finding the thread worthwhile

it's a terrible topic, and there's a lot of info here

have you heard that h-1bs are an alternative to outsourcing?

think again

Top Ten Companies Receiving H-1B's<22> Rank Company Headquarters Primary Employment Base H-1Bs received 2006 6 year projection
1 Infosys Bangalore, Karnataka, India India 4,908 29,448
2 Wipro Bangalore, Karnataka, India India 4,002 24,012
3 Microsoft Redmond, Washington USA 3,117 18,702
4 Tata Mumbai, Maharashtra, India India 3,046 18,276
5 Satyam Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, India India 2,880 17,280
6 Cognizant Technology Solutions Teaneck, New Jersey<25> India 2,226 13,356
7 Patni Computer Systems Mumbai, Maharashtra, India India 1,391 8,346
8 IBM Armonk, New York USA 1,130 6,780
9 Oracle Corporation Redwood Shores, California USA 1,022 6,132
10 Larsen & Toubro Infotech Mumbai, Maharashtra, India India 947 5,682
TOP TEN TOTAL 148,014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

Recently Wipro Chairman Azim Premji had said: "If we hire people locally, it will displace people we send from here on H1B visas. So net-net, it will not mean an extra cost to us." If this happens, there will be fewer plum jobs for the boys in India.

http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2008/feb/18cut.htm

Gates 'It's not fair that I can't increase replacement of American workers in a recession. I want more money. waaaaaaaa!'

Congress: 'What kind of shoe shine polish do you prefer, Mr. Gates?'

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9066460&intsrc=hm_list

granitized?

Maybe you're just too clever for DU, eh?

on whether there is more interest in addressing this issue

or censoring it

there's a big push to increase guest workers (H-1b and H-2) as we speak. During a recession that may be severe (or perhaps even Depression), that would absolutly cream American workers

none of the candidates are talking about this, and in congress, BOTH parties are in on it

is that something we ought to be quiet about?

the issue is timely, relevant, and critical

if the spirit here is 'Party Über Alles ' just say so and I'll leave

and that is merely what I was asking. Whether the subject you started this thread about may or may not have merit is irrelevant to my point.

Why is it that you keep getting banned, and how long before this 3rd iteration of your user name is tombstoned?

And by the way, "Censoring" this conversation does not enter into it. DU is a private web site. It is not censorship if topics or views that are contrary to the rules laid out by the site owners are deleted or removed.

Want your views to be available with no threat you will be banned? Start your own website.

"Why is it that you keep getting banned, and how long before this 3rd iteration of your user name is tombstoned?"

you tell me, I'm not the one doing the banning. but it is curious that you're more interested in that, than the issue itself

this thead is on the high end of page views and participation. those who work in IT tend to agree with ALL of it, and also tend to view that this presents a far larger threat to ALL American workers than most people realize. it represents the most basic right of American workers, to not be discriminated against in their own country, based on their national orgin! it is an outrage, the the democratic party as a whole, does not denounce this practice, instead of supporting it

there's a very large amount of factual information in this thread, and those that weren't aware of it before should be shocked by what they see.

they should be shocked by Senator Durbin's (D-IL) Senate floor speech alone (up a few messages), he summed it up pretty well.

exerpt:

"Some companies that abuse the H-1B visa program are so brazen, they say "no Americans need apply" in their job advertisements. Hundreds of such ads have been posted on line. They say things such as "H-1B visa holders only" or "we require candidates for H-1B from India."

Is that what we have in mind, to create this perverse discrimination against American workers? That isn't the way it was explained to me. Our H-1B reform bill would prohibit this blatant discriminatory practice. "

that statement alone is an absolute outrage

hear it from the lawyers themselves (a 19 second youtube clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR1Jke2NWTA&feature=related

posting privileges.

I'm more interested in that because my opinion on the issue of H-1-B Visa's is not one I care to share or make public.

Again, I'm being circumspect.

There are plenty of subjects I do not comment on. I've found that my opinion regarding many, many sacred cows of liberalism (or DU)are often not anywhere near the mainstream of many that post on this board. Occasionally I'll venture into one of those areas and find very few others on my side. But I'll only do it when I feel strongly enough or am well versed enough on the subject matter.

The subject of H-1-B Visas in the Info Tech sector (or anywhere else) does not rise to that level.

As far as participation is concerned, this thread, prior to my post, had 110 posts of which 53 were YOURS. It isn't as if there has been dozens and dozens of others having a conversation. You account for just shy of half the posts. It's almost as if you are having this conversation with yourself.

it's more important to bow to sacred cows than to tell people what you really think on matters that are important

problem is, in doing so, you become more like the cattle you are bowing to

a rather bazzare point of view from someone who's ID is 'A heretic I am' posting on an 'underground' forum

(it's curious that 'page views' dissapeared during this conversation)

And no, it isn't more important to "bow to sacred cows". I don't "bow" to them. I occasioanlly GORE them, but bow? Naah. See, the thing is, even though I am a progressive thinker and a Democrat and call myself a Heretic, there's plenty of things I just don't give a shit about. Personally, I don't really give a shit how many different user names you construct or how many times you get banned. I just find it a little amusing, that's all. I don't really give a shit how many Indians Microsoft or anyone else hires, either. They are free to hire anyone they care to, as far as I am concerned, as long as they do it legally. How I personally feel about the individuals coming here for those jobs is part of what I'll keep to myself.

Look, Mr. "Ombudsman", I appreciate your passion, really. Go for it. Speak your mind. Advocate for those who need your advocacy. But you seem to be having a bit of difficulty staying on board here, so don't be surprised if you have to come up with another anagram. Here's a list of several dozen for you to choose from. My vote is for "An Mods Bum" or perhaps "Damn Mob Us"


The "Page Views" have been gone for quite a while. It is part of a reduction in available features implemented when web site traffic spikes. By 8:00 tonight, the site will look and act considerably different than is does right now.

What's really "bazzare" is that I decided to spend this much time engaging you on this rather banal topic.

'What's really "bazzare" is that I decided to spend this much time engaging you on this rather banal topic.'

well, that was your choice, not mine.

curious that someone who doesnt care about h-1b would have spent that much time on an H-1b thread

and for what it's worth, nobody's ever accused me of using profanity, as you have here

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article456721.ece
Layoffs at Nielsen concern Oldsmar residents

By Theresa Blackwell, Times Staff Writer
In print: Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Story Tools


OLDSMAR — Over the past seven years, the Nielsen Company has received at least $3.1-million in state and local subsidies to consolidate its Pinellas operations in a showcase facility in Oldsmar.

Much of that money was for creating high-wage local jobs.

Yet last year, Nielsen let go 240 Tampa-area employees, including many in Oldsmar. Now the company — formerly known as Nielsen Media Research — says the Oldsmar location is losing another 110 positions.

That work has been outsourced to India-based Tata Consultancy Services. Tata, one of the world's largest providers of consulting and outsourcing services, has brought in its own workers from India.

In the past few weeks, Tata workers have been spotted about town.

And Oldsmar, population 14,000, is buzzing.

"That is just unacceptable," Oldsmar City Council member Janice Miller said Monday when told of the job losses.

Miller said she plans to bring up the incentives Nielsen has received, like the qualified target industry tax refund at tonight's City Council meeting.

"The City Council is going to have to address this QTI (refund)," she said.

Officials agreed to provide Nielsen the incentives in an effort to keep the company from moving its operations out of Pinellas.

In 2003, the company consolidated many of its North Pinellas operations into a new, 475,000-square-foot, $80.2-million Global Technology and Information Center.

State officials say Nielsen moved 1,200 existing jobs to Oldsmar and agreed to maintain 1,883 jobs at its 39-acre campus. With an onsite work force of 1,600, Nielsen already is nearly 300 positions below the agreed-upon total. And more employees will be leaving eliminated positions this year.

The state evaluates qualified target industry contracts every year, said Page Bass, a spokeswoman for the Florida Governor's Office of Tourism, Trade and Economic Development. It would end the incentives if a company did not meet the requirements of its contract.

Some of the 110 employees in eliminated positions have already left Nielsen, and about 50 have taken jobs with Tata at Nielsen's Oldsmar location.

Around town, people talk about how Nielsen employees have been asked to train their replacements. But that's not how the company describes it.

Some Nielsen employees remain to "transfer technical knowledge" to consultants, said Nielsen spokesman Gary Holmes. Those employees will get extra severance pay, he said.

"The world is a lot more global … and every company needs to become more productive if they want to grow, attract new business and create jobs," said Holmes. "At Nielsen, this means that we have to be constantly re-engineering our business."

One recent morning, about a dozen Tata employees waited at Forest Lakes Road to catch a bus to work.

Three of the consultants — Vythe Chalaka, 27, Digamber Rawat, 24, and Amarnath Kollu, 25 — said they had been in Oldsmar for about two weeks.

"We've had previous experience in India, and we are trying to utilize it here at Nielsen," Rawat said.

Others arrived from India months ago, they said.

Chalaka estimated about 150 to 200 consultants from India with degrees in computer engineering or computer technology now work at Nielsen.

Holmes said the layoffs are a continuation of a restructuring that took place in 2007, but the effort to find a more efficient working structure will continue.

"This is an ongoing process, an ongoing forever process," he said.

Jerry Custin, president of the Upper Tampa Bay Regional Chamber of Commerce, has no concern about job loss at present. Nielsen, a trustee of the chamber, is active in Oldsmar, supports chamber events and opens its doors for meetings, he said.

"They've really been an excellent community partner, not only to the chamber, but I think to the city, too," he said.

Times staff writer Theresa Blackwell can be reached at tblackwell@sptimes.com or (727) 445-4170.

>>FAST FACTS

About the Nielsen Co.

The Nielsen Co. is a descendent of the A.C. Nielsen Co., founded in 1923. Headquartered in New York, and Haarlem, The Netherlands, it is a worldwide provider of marketing information, audience measurement and business media products and services. It operates in more than 100 countries. Its customers include the St. Petersburg Times, which buys online data from Nielsen.

By removing H-1B you are removing the only legal chance for regular people to come to US.
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