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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:06 PM
Original message
Rail line fuel cells can be the little engine that could
http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19011790&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6

THE Connecicut Academy of Science and Engineering recently released a report entitled "A Study of th Feasibility of Utilizing Fuel Cells to Generate Power for the New Haven Rail Lin ." This study was mandated by the Connecticut General Assembly and cond

The purpose of this study was to explore using fuel cells to generate electricity for a variety of applications related to New Haven Rail Line operations. These include supplying traction power, providing electricity to the catenary system that powers the railcars; and powering maintenance yard buildings, railroad stations, and the rail line signal and control system. Although the study’s focus was on the stationary power needs of the New Haven Line, the development of onboard traction power and auxiliary power for rail cars were also discussed.

The study examined all New Haven Line power applications to determine which, if any, would benefit most from the use of fuel cell power, and to identify any technical issues with using fuel cells for these applications.

In general, fuel cell power is most economically attractive when there is the opportunity to utilize a fuel cell’s electrical and thermal output (heat released in operating the fuel cell); where the fuel cell system operating in conjunction with the utility network can provide very high reliability power to serve critical safety and operational electrical requirements and redundancy in the event of a utility power outage; where new construction provides the lowest installation cost; and where state-owned space is available for system installation.

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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. It will take a nuclear infrastructure to supply the power for a hydrogen infrastructure.
Hydrogen is neither cheap or easy to implement.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. If they're expecting a lot of waste heat, it's probably *NOT* a hydrogen fuel cell...
If they're expecting a lot of waste heat (and they appear
to be), it's probably *NOT* a hydrogen fuel cell-based
system that's being discussed here.

Tesha
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm not being a bitch Tesha....
But when you combine hydrogen with oxygen, it is a combustion process and heat is created.

What they meant about using it for a mobile application was that there is no really good way to take advantage of that extra heat just yet. However, a stirling engine, running off the waste heat, could power the electrical system.

Used to power a home, the waste heat from a fuel cell could be used to heat the hot water and for space heating.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why would you think that a hydrogen fuel cell doesn't have a lot of waste heat?
In most cases "hydrogen" fuel cells are about 50 to 55% efficient in generating electricity; most of the rest goes to waste heat, which can be a lot. Utilizing the waste heat can mean effeciences of up to 90%, much more effecient than without use of the waste heat.
That is why the report indicates that the most cost effective uses of fuel cells is where the waste heat can be utilized.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The process that "reforms" hydrocarbon fuels *CAN* produce much more.
Edited on Tue Nov-13-07 11:20 AM by Tesha
If it's oxidizing the carbon.

Tesha
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. In Case The Techies Haven't Noticed...
Edited on Tue Nov-13-07 01:06 PM by VogonGlory
In case the techies haven't noticed, much of the former New Haven Railroad's Shore Line has already been electrified. The former New Haven rail lines that run into Grand Central Station and Penn Station have been electrified since before World War One. Most of the diesel-electric locomotives (diesel engine, electric generator, electric motors) that used to haul Amtrak passenger trains from New Haven to Boston were either retired or re-assigned to other parts of Amtrak's system when the catenary finally closed the gap in the Clinton administration. Most of the Shore Line's commuter trains that run into New York's Grand Central Station have been electrified since the 1920's.

Not that there aren't internal combustion locomotives that couldn't be replaced by hybrid fuel cell--electric locomotives in the area. The New Haven--Springfield line is still diesel operated, as are some of the Connecticut Department of Transportation's other railroad branch lines. However, US passenger rail technology has lagged behind Europe's and Japan's for nearly fifty years now, and I suspect that US engineers will have to go hat-in-hand to EU countries or Japan to see what practical technologies they have thought up.
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Doctor Cynic Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh great, those ones...
The provincial government here is considering building fuel cell trains for a commuter rail line in Toronto. That's just going to become a huge white elephant when simply using catenary wires can deliver the same result with less time and money.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. These fuel cells will power electric trains through a centenary - they are not on-board cells
and the heat generated will be used to by stations etc. for heat and hot water...
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