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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:29 AM
Original message
PHEV
Isn't this what we need in the short term?

PHEV is the best option now IMHO.
No need for massive new fuel distribution retooling which uses energy and will not be ready for years.
PHEV can be used now.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, but one problem
it doesn't consume enough gasoline.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 11:35 AM
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2. What we need is a company that can/will convert for a reasonable
price, but I don't think that is possible. Building them from the ground up will probably be the only viable and economical answer. I didn't notice regenerative braking on the unit you posted about, but considering the potential mileage, one would think it has at least that.
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Fledermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:46 PM
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3. Yes, Plug in Hybrids would be great first step
In addition, when done on a large enough scale, they would help store & interface varying outputs from renewable forms of electricity.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. PHEV's are fine things, but people seem to forget about the cost of the batteries
You can get a Prius converted to a PHEV by a number of companies. Here's one place; http://www.hybrids-plus.com/

Conversions don't come cheap though:
http://www.hybrids-plus.com/ht/faq.html#toc25
...

5.1  How much does the conversion cost?

Presently, the cost of a Prius conversion, done by Hybrids Plus, in Boulder, CO, is:
  • $ 24,000 for the PHEV-15
  • $ 32,500 for the PHEV-30
Most of this is to cover the cost of the high quality, LiIon cells. This price does not include the vehicle, nor tranportation of a vehicle to and from Boulder.

5.2  How can I justify $ 32,500 for a conversion?

Today, people convert HEVs to PHEV for environmental and political reasons, and to be a pioneer in the PHEV field. They don't do it for personal economic reasons: today's conversion price is such that its cost cannot be recovered through fuel savings alone.

Early adopters of this technology make its development possible, and in the process, help drive the price of conversions down to a more reasonable level.

...


So, after you plunk down your money, you'll have a plug-in Prius which will still use Toyota's "Hybrid Synergy Drive" which is not a bad technology, but I believe a "series hybrid" (AKA a "serial hybrid") (like that used in the Chevy Volt) is better. With a converted Prius, your car will still not be able to be used as a pure EV at speeds above 34 MPH. Even at low speeds, your EV range will be approximately 15 or 30 miles.

Okay, so, take the purchase price of a Prius, add to it the conversion cost.

Now, compare this to a Volt:
  • Expected to cost less than $30,000
  • Drives as an EV for up to 40 miles.
  • Beyond 40 miles, drives as a serial hybrid.


What about doing it yourself? Okay, you can do that. The cheapest way to go is using lead-acid batteries, like the PriusPlus project. That'll run you about $4,000 for the batteries, and a couple of weeks of labor, and the batteries will need to be replaced in a year or two. http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/PriusPlus
...

The PriusPlus conversion retains the OEM hybrid battery and its management computer while adding a lead-acid pack consisting of 20 BB Battery EVP20-12B 12V, 20 Amp-hour sealed AGM PbA batteries. PbA battery chemistry is very inexpensive but leads to significant limitations (see below). However, with this relatively inexpensive conversion (as little as $4000 parts cost, including the battery) you can be the first in your community to actually own and drive a plug-in hybrid, and you can achieve 100+ mpg (plus electricity) for 15-20 miles/day!

...

Though we are using the best and most cost-effective PbA modules we could find, a PbA PHEV is neither economically nor operationally up to par. But as of now, it is the only relatively inexpensive way to own and drive a real PHEV. More advanced batteries are on the way and may well be available by the time (1-2 years from now) the PbA battery needs replacement (see below for specifics.)

...


So, in short, yes, PHEV's are the short term solution, but you're best off waiting until GM (and others) release them commercially.
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