Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jevons paradox

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 09:18 AM
Original message
Jevons paradox
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jevons Paradox is not natural law
Edited on Tue May-26-09 09:31 AM by OKIsItJustMe
For example, is there any evidence that Prius owners increase their driving miles? Jevons Paradox predicts that they would (in proportion to the increased efficiency of their new cars compared to their old ones.)

In my experience at least, Prius owners seem to be more conscious of the miles they drive and the MPG they get (driving in such a way as to maximize their MPG.)

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11917435?nclick_check=1

Roadshow: Prius owners drive too slow — or is it too fast?

By Gary Richards

Mercury News
Posted: 03/16/2009 12:00:00 AM PDT

Q I do not hate those who drive a Prius, but can they at least stay up with the flow of traffic? It seems they have taken over the crown of highway road hog in regards to their complete disrespect for those who choose to go the speed limit (or sometimes a little faster). They have managed to dethrone the SUV hogs rather quickly and feel that they do in fact own the road. I actually think they have regulators that won't allow them to go any faster than 60 mph and they won't ever move out of the way. Since they have the carpool lane OK stickers, maybe they should only be allowed to travel during those times posted. Ha, ha, ha.

Mike Raia

San Jose

A So we drive too slow?

Q I've been reading your column for years, felt compelled many times to write and now I am finally doing it because I have a beef with these so-called "good" people who drive hybrids. In my honest opinion, many Prius and other hybrid drivers think they are above everyone else and can do whatever they want because they are "green" and therefore better citizens. I say bull. Prius as well as other hybrid drivers are the ones speeding by me in the fast lane, when I'm already doing 72. They are the ones who insist I move out of the lane. They are the ones who cross over all lanes of traffic to take an exit immediately. What is the point, then? Are they really saving gas at that point? Are they really "good" people then? We shouldn't be hailing all hybrid drivers as saints. Forgive me as I am cranky. I drive a Honda Civic, I drive with the speed of traffic, I am courteous to those who want to get around me, but aggressive when I have to be. I ride my bike when I don't need to drive. I take the train to work if I can. What about us?

Meredith Schwarting

A So we drive too fast?

Q I'm here to tell you that I wholeheartedly support those who say that Prius owners drive too slowly and block traffic. In the early '90s, it was BMW drivers who thought they owned the road; in the late '90s, this dubious honor belonged to drivers of minivans and giant SUVs. Now Prius drivers have taken over. Fuel-efficient cars are an important step in saving the planet, but driving a Prius does not entitle one to become a road hazard. Prius drivers merge slowly and then beeline for the diamond lane, where they drive 10 mph slower than everybody else and they can't seem to maintain one speed. My car can drive circles around a Prius without breaking a sweat. But when somebody is on my tail, that means I'm going too slow, so I pull to the right and let them pass. I can't tell you how many times I've had to pass a Prius on the right. Sincere apologies to all the good Prius citizens who try to share the road, but I have never seen more arrogant behavior from a group of drivers than the ones who drive a Prius.

Paul Pelton

San Jose

A So we drive too slow?

Q What is it about Prius owners who zip along at 85 mph in the fast lane? They buy a car that gets great mileage and then they drive like crazy.

Mary Harden

San Jose

A I'm getting dizzy. We drive too slow, or too fast. No, too slow. No, too fast. Any other critics out there? Oh, yeah.



To judge by this, it sounds like Prius drivers are about the same as any other group of drivers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The rebound effect is hard to quantify.
Edited on Tue May-26-09 09:54 AM by GliderGuider
A lot of the problem is that savings accruing from efficiency in one domain may increase expenditures in another domain, where their source is not easily recognized.

An example would be a Prius owner who uses the money they save on gasoline to increase their consumption of restaurant meals and golf equipment rather than increasing the miles they travel. Overall consumption has potentially increased, but it's very hard to say how, and by how much.

The paradox has a certain mathematical appeal, because increased efficiency does lower the cost per unit of consumption so should play into the law of supply and demand. Unfortunately, it relies on an economic model that assumes Nash equilibrium as its central tenet. That unquestioned assumption may not be true, and if it's not, the Jevons Paradox goes out the window.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. "Statistically, 'the people I know,' makes a lousy sample."
I wish I could credit the source of that maxim.

However, ignoring its wisdom for the moment ;-) the Prius owners I know are ecologically minded, and have not noticeably increased their consumption using their windfall savings.

But, then, the financial rewards of driving a Prius aren't all that great. (i.e. the increased purchase price cuts into the savings recognized from the higher MPG.) The Prius owners I know were not making a financially motivated decision. If anything—at the time—it represented a net loss, financially. They wanted to do something to help fight "global warming."

This whole way of thinking (acting for the common good, or acting in one's own "enlightened self-interest") simply flies in the face of the Nash equilibrium.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 16th 2024, 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC