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Accurately Estimating EV Efficiency for Consumers Proving Elusive

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 04:45 PM
Original message
Accurately Estimating EV Efficiency for Consumers Proving Elusive
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 04:45 PM by wtmusic


"DETROIT – Experts from industry and government ask how to measure the efficiency of electrified vehicles, especially compared with traditionally powered cars and trucks, and arrive at this consensus – it’s impossible.

'It is an astonishing challenge,' says Michael Tamor, executive technical leader-hybrid electric vehicles and fuel-cell vehicles at Ford Motor Co.

But it also is a challenge auto makers and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency must undertake given today’s mainstream-brand vehicles will begin sharing the showroom floor with electrified models by the end of the year."

http://wardsauto.com/home/ev_efficiency_elusive_100413/

The MPGe, which "attempts to express the efficiency of an electrified vehicle in terms of the fuel it would consume", is silly - the only meaningful mileage number will be cost/mile, based on average price/gallon and/or average price/kWh, and it will have to be calculated from benchmarks on a given date.
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NoNothing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is not a hard problem
Just provide two measurements: avg. miles per charge, and cost of charge at avg. electric rates (just like is done on EnergyStar labels for appliances.) If it's an HPEV, include an city/highway MPG figure for when running on combustion engine, as is done with existing cars.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. How dare you try to be reasonable!(snarcasm)
I personally would drive one if (a) I could afford it (b) it had a range of a mininum 240 miles. Which would mean we would have to have a hybrid. We priced Prius when we bought the Nissan Versa, that was about 8g more and we could not afford payments or get financing for one.

My partner drives 45 miles each way to work and since we have one car and days when I have to go to dr which is 45 miles in another direction, then 45 miles to home and then 45 miles back to pu him from work it adds up. If it had some built in solar panels to help recharge and it could charge when I get home to rest up for the return trip to his work. Then there are days when I have to do other running around because I make every trip count with other errands. Moving closer to town is out of the question since we cannot afford what we have here then.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. I measure it in miles per dollar and have been for years
puts the onus on the oil companies that way
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Energy efficiency isn't difficult to calculate
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 11:54 PM by IDemo
If by "difficult" or "impossible", the experts actually mean - to present energy efficiency in a form the average citizen can wrap their mind around, they may be right. The commonly used MPGe, or miles per gallon equivalent, is pretty silly but not necessarily inaccurate.

Vehicle efficiency simply means how much energy does it take to move the vehicle a given unit of distance. Well-to-wheel efficiency includes the losses incurred in getting that energy to the rear (or front) wheel, but isn't included in mpg figures. My preference would be km/MJ, or kilometers per megajoule. Most American drivers would probably be much more comfortable with miles per kilowatt-hour, though.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The EPA's MPG ratings are used to compute the annual fuel cost comparison
so they're intended as primarily a financial metric. Most consumers (excluding energy geeks like you and me) don't care how much energy is involved. Although if they're going to go there, they should use wheel-to-well, which is the last thing the American Petroleum Institute wants.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Watt hours per mile is the best way to measure EV efficiency.
Now, will average people actually understand what it means?

Probably not.

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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. It would be easy to rate all vehicles in terms of carbon output.
Calculations for ICEs is straightforward.

Calculations for EVs would be based on the utility company's energy mix.

And PHEVs would calculate some combination of these (though individual driving habits would widely vary).

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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. The major problem is this:
An EV's mileage will make most gasoline powered cars mileage look totally pathetic.

Figure it this way:

Whats the current average cost of residential electricity?
At that rate, how much does it cost to fully charge the EV? (Call this 'electrical cost,' or EC)
What's the current average cost of gas?
How many gallons of gas would the EC buy? (Call this something like 'equivalent gasoline amount,' or EGA)
How far will that EV go on that charge? (Miles)
Miles/EGA = the EV's milage rating.

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