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Reuters: Scientists refute carbon capture doubts (well... carbon storage actually)

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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 08:58 AM
Original message
Reuters: Scientists refute carbon capture doubts (well... carbon storage actually)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63P4FQ20100426

Scientists refute carbon capture doubts

LONDON
Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:19pm EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - Geologists refuted on Monday a report which in January had cast doubt on a technology to bury greenhouse gases underground, and on which some policymakers have pinned hopes to fight climate change.

British geologists and engineers rejected the doubts on Monday, pointing to pilot projects in an email to Reuters, following a report about January's article in the Guardian newspaper on Monday.

Carbon capture and storage (CCS) involves trapping and storing underground carbon dioxide produced by power plants which burn fossil fuels.

Some academics say that the world's efforts to limit dangerous climate change depends on CCS, which can in theory almost eliminate carbon emissions from burning coal and so give the world time to develop cheap fossil fuel alternatives.

The trouble is that the full chain of CCS processes from trapping and piping to burying underground carbon dioxide (CO2) produced by power plants is untested at a commercial scale.

...
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?"
> Speaking to BusinessGreen.com, Professor Stuart Hazeldine, a geologist at
> the University of Edinburgh and leading expert in CCS technologies, said
> that the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) should close the
> competition and award the funding to Scottish Power to develop CCS at its
> Longannet plant in Fife in order to prevent any more time being wasted.

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/carbon-capture-and-storage)

> Large scale commercial carbon capture and storage (CCS) projects this week
> took a step closer to becoming a reality with the announcement that the Energy
> Act had received Royal Assent. The Act will mean that funding for four CCS
> demonstration projects will now be generated via a special levy applied on
> electricity bills.
> ...
> Gas CCS plants can also now be funded through the levy, a change borne
> out of lobbying.
(http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/utilities-industry-electric-power/14274021-1.html)


> The Department for Energy and Climate Change last month awarded an
> undisclosed sum to Eon and ScottishPower for initial design and develop
> commercial demonstration plants at Kingsnorth in Kent and Longannet in
> Scotland over the next year. This will be followed by one winner for the
> full post-combustion project.

Prof. Stuart Hazeldine is on the Thermal Generation/CCS group of the ETP
(Energy Technology Partnership), a very well-connected lobbying group that
are "well represented" on the Scottish Advisory Board.

No conflict of interest there then.

Amusingly, in the aforementioned article, even he admitted that no-one really
knows the available capacity:

> "The geological storage remains unproven, there are many theoretical
> predictions of the storage volumes and efficiencies," he (Stuart Hazeldine) said.
(http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/utilities-industry-electric-power/14274021-1.html)

It would appear that it's OK for him to hedge his bets (to avoid getting
caught out by lawsuits after the projects fail) but he doesn't like it if
someone else says it (in case it damages income prospects?).

Put a tick against "unconvinced" for me ...

:shrug:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't "capture" and "storage" go hand-in-hand?
"Capture and Release" seems a little pointless :D
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well not in fishing.
:)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. LOL true nt
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Well, no, not necessarily
There have been pilot projects to demonstrate Carbon Capture (it works) but which have released the captured CO2, since they had no way to store it long term.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Economicdes
The conclusion of Economides' paper:

5. Conclusions
The implications of this work are profound. A simple analytical model shows immediate results very similar to those that take hours to produce with numerical simulation. Much more important, the work shows that models that assume a constant pressure outer boundary for reservoirs intended for CO2 sequestration are missing the critical point that the reservoir pressure will build up under injection at constant rate. Instead of the 1–4% of bulk volume storability factor indicated prominently in the literature, which is based on erroneous steady state modeling, our finding is that CO2 can occupy no more than 1% of the pore volume and likely as much as 100 times less.

This work has related the volume of the reservoir that would be adequate to store CO2 with the need to sustain injectivity. The two are intimately connected. In applying this to a commercial power plant the findings suggest that for a small number of wells the areal extent of the reservoir would be enormous, the size of a small US state. Conversely, for more moderate size reservoirs, still the size of Alaska's Prudhoe Bay reservoir, and with moderate permeability there would be a need for hundreds of wells. Neither of these bodes well for geological CO2 sequestration and the findings of this work clearly suggest that it is not a practical means to provide any substantive reduction in CO2 emissions, although it has been repeatedly presented as such by others.


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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. On the other hand...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63P4FQ20100426
...

She acknowledged on Monday criticism of that "general" assertion and said the authors had applied the model to particular acquirers and showed that these could in fact store CO2 for 25-30 years from clusters of power plants.

"If that's sufficient for everyone, fine. If you're really sincerely talking about accommodating large numbers of power plants, already spending impossible amounts of money and energy to capture, get this CO2 in the ground we need to be spending very close attention to what it entails," she said.

NORWAY PROJECT

British geologists rejected the doubts, pointing to tests such as Norway's Sleipner project.

...

Norway has buried millions of tonnes of CO2 for more than a decade below the seabed of the North Sea between Britain and Germany. "It's not anywhere hear the volumes you're talking about for real operations, for even a small power plant," countered Ehlig-Economides, referring to Sleipner.

,,,
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Considering the circumstances...
Do you really think that truncated, highly edited account of Economide's response to the response in a newspaper is a legitimate source?

I would expect that all those who stand to be proved wrong by Economide's study should it prove valid will be lining up to give a fair and impartial response to the contents of the paper, don't you?

I've looked the paper over, and it is not for me to evaluate, but I suspect the results are going to have a big influence on the discussion.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "... the results are going to have a big influence on the discussion."
(That seems to be a fair assessment.)
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