Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

French University Builds 11,000 MPG Car

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:04 PM
Original message
French University Builds 11,000 MPG Car

A group of university students from France have done what the Big-3 can only dream of, develop a car that can travel more than 11,000 miles on the equivalent of a single a gallon of gasoline.

Team Polyjule of Polytech Nantes built the ultralight, single-seat streamliner for the the Shell Eco-marathon competition in Lausitz, Germany. It is one of a series of fuel economy challenges sponsored by the energy company that are held worldwide each year.

On Friday, just a day after breaking the 10,000 miles per gallon equivalent (mpge) barrier, the team set a new record of 11, 516 mpge, although the car technically didn't use any gasoline at all. Instead, it is an electric car powered by a hydrogen fuel cell which provides energy in place of a battery. The amount of hydrogen used was then converted into its gasoline equivalent using the energy density of the two fuels to make the comparison.

Competitors in the Eco-marathon are allowed to use just about any fuel source, everything from plain old premium gasoline to biodiesel to solar power. However, the vehicles aren't actually driven 11K miles. Instead, they run over a much shorter course, only a few miles, at very low speeds, using just a tiny bit of their chosen fuel. The results are then converted to mpge to create the eye-popping figures seen above.


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/05/07/french-university-builds-mpg-car/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Viva Le France! nt
Edited on Fri May-07-10 01:07 PM by madmax
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow
But here's what I'm afraid of: the oil and car companies would kill it, just like they did with the electric cars in the past.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Amazing!
Now comes all the strategic-position-of-the-car-industry-so-we-need-to-protect-it-from-alternative-methods BS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. But try to squeeze a mattress from IKEA in the trunk...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. The results are then massaged and inflated to create the eye-popping figures
seen above (more MPGe nonsense)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. MPGe is a usful metric. Maybe the formulas can be improved but it useful.
As more and more vehicles use alternative energy we need some comparison metric.

MPGe is easy for the public to understand.

The vehicle in the OP uses hydrogen. It achieved 11,516 on an amount of Hydrogen with equivalent energy as a gallon of gasoline.

Maybe someday we will simply measure all vehicle (electric, hydrogen, gasoline, natural gas) in terms of energy per mile i.e 200 kwh/mile. Until we do MPGe is a good (if crude) metric to comparison various energy sources.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Electric cars are forbidden from competition
This is another marketing tool in Shell's toolbox to hype their ambitions to convert 10,000 gas stations to hydrogen. Here are the acceptable fuels:

Shell Unleaded 95 (EU) / Shell Plus 89 (US) Petrol/Gasoline
Shell Diesel
Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG)
Shell Gas To Liquid (100% GTL)
Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (100% FAME)
Ethanol E100 (100% Ethanol)
Hydrogen
Solar (I'd love to see how they calc that one)

The fuel is measured by an embedded flowmeter provided by Shell. Not that I don't trust every employee of every petroleum company, but do you note any reason for skepticism here?

Power that same vehicle with "equivalent" Li-Ion batteries and it would likely blow their record away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah
Wondered why they were screwing around with a fuel cell in that thing in lieu of a Li-Ion battery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Fuel cells are better for this
Edited on Fri May-07-10 08:21 PM by OKIsItJustMe
Consider a similar system used in a Navy drone:
http://www.onr.navy.mil/en/Media-Center/Fact-Sheets/Ion-Tiger.aspx
...

Here’s why: Fuel cells create an electric current by converting hydrogen and oxygen into water, making them very attractive as energy sources. Fuel cell technology is pollution-free, and expected to deliver twice the efficiency of an internal combustion engine. The fuel cell engine runs more quietly but with greater endurance than battery-powered systems. The relatively small 550-watt fuel cells provide an additional advantage for the UAV.

...


http://www.nrl.navy.mil/pao/pressRelease.php?Y=2009&R=31-09r
...

In particular, the Ion Tiger UAV tests a hydrogen-powered fuel cell design, which can travel farther and carry heavier payloads than earlier battery-powered designs. Ion Tiger employs stealthy characteristics due to its small size, reduced noise, low heat signature and zero emissions.

...


http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4396063
...

Compared with other power sources commonly used on UAVs, the Protonex fuel cell produces seven times more power than batteries of the same weight, and four times more power than a comparable internal combustion engine, the Navy says.

...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. No, fuel cells are not "better for this".
Edited on Sat May-08-10 01:03 AM by wtmusic
unless you are implying that weight is an equally important consideration in Navy drones as it is in passenger cars. You don't want to imply that, do you?

:silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. You're saying that weight isn't important?
Have you seen the cars that win these events?


We're not talking about a 4 door sedan here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
18.  I'm saying your comparison with Navy drones is silly.
Different applications, totally different considerations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hmmm...
http://www.shell.com/home/content/ecomarathon/about/faqs/#what_energy_sources_are_used_in_the_shell_eco-marathon_competition?_6
...

What energy sources are used in the Shell Eco-marathon competition?

Either conventional fuels (such as diesel, petrol and liquefied petroleum gas), or alternative fuels (such as solar, electric, hydrogen, ethanol, biofuels and gas to liquids) can be used to power vehicles.

In 2003 alternative energy sources were introduced to the Shell Eco-marathon, opening up new environmental perspectives for this unique competition. The term "alternative energy" includes all non-fossil energy sources like hydrogen, solar energy, ethanol and fuels derived from biomass.

Shell believes that the development of alternative energy sources is critical to the future of transport and the global energy industry.

...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Hmmm yourself.
(Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper than the FAQs).

"Article 73: Other on-board energy sources
For all fuel categories, stored electrical or pneumatic energy not replaced during the competition by the engine may only be used for the self-starter, the
ignition, the injector, the instrumentation, the horn and electronic management systems."

http://www-static.shell.com/static/ecomarathon/downloads/2010/2010_SEM_rules.pdf

Shell believes that the development of alternative energy sources is critical to the future of transport and the global energy industry, as long as they are technologies from which Shell can derive immense profits.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. You'll be pleased to see this
Edited on Sat May-08-10 08:14 AM by OKIsItJustMe
http://www.shell.com/home/content/ecomarathon/europe/media_centre/news_and_media_releases/2010/may_03.html

Electrifying times at the Shell Eco-marathon Europe with debut of e-mobility demonstration run

03/05/2010

06-07 may event at Eurospeedway Lausitz, Germany will see introduction of e-mobility demonstration run; first step to possible introduction of new e-mobility category at future editions

* 17 teams scheduled to participate
* In total, 213 teams from 22 european nations and beyond are under starters’ orders at eurospeedway lausitz
* Shell Eco-marathon Europe 2010 receives european commission endorsement

There’s a real electric feeling in the air at this year’s Shell Eco-marathon Europe as the 2010 edition of the competition sees the introduction of a demonstration run for an all-new E-mobility project.

Shell has introduced an E-mobility demonstration run to the 2010 edition of the Shell Eco-marathon Europe in order to test the possibility of including all-electric vehicles as a separate fuel-type category in future editions of the Shell Eco-marathon. This new initiative underlines Shell’s interest in electricity as a potential fuel. Of course this isn’t the first time that electric cars have been involved in the Shell Eco-marathon Europe: the vehicles taking in this race have been modified from a pool of hydrogen- and solar-powered vehicles competing this year. Hydrogen- and solar-powered vehicles have been competing in the Shell Eco-marathon Europe since 2003.

Matthias Bichsel, Member of the Executive Committee of Royal Dutch Shell plc and Projects &Technology Director, explains the thinking behind the introduction of this demonstration run:

All of the 213 teams competing in this year’s competition have been invited to take part in the E-mobility demonstration run, of which 17 have taken up the challenge. The race is open to teams running either Prototype or UrbanConcept vehicles, which will be fitted with a battery for this race only. The E-mobility demonstration run will take place on 06 May on the race track of EuroSpeedway Lausitz.

All vehicles will be equipped with a Joulemeter to measure the electrical consumption. In line with the overarching ambitions of the event, teams compete 3 runs with the lowest energy consumption possible. As the E-mobility run is for demonstration purposes only, there will be no formal prizes for top-performing teams.

...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Not really.
Subtext: "Electric car community cries foul, Shell throws them a meaningless bone." Meaningless? No prizes, and no comparison to relatively inefficient and expensive fuel cells.

Now Really. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-10 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. One can only imagine how many laws of thermodynamics were fudged for this calculation.
I personally like the big giant "Officially Amory Lovins Greenwashed Shell Oil" poster in the background.

It reminds me of the "Beyond Petroleum" logo of the "Officially Amory Lovins Greenwashed BP Oil Company."

http://www.rmi.org/rmi/Amory+B.+Lovins">Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:

Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.



The point of these stupid exercises is to make dangerous oil companies - especially those who pay Amory Lovins, which would be about at least seven, but probably way more - lull people into dishonest and toxic complacency about their car CULTure.

While filling their gas tanks with officially greenwashed offshore drill baby drill oil, they engage in a happy face fantasy that they have a 1,377,610,987 miles per gallon car.

They don't and they never will have such a car. What they will have is a rationalization (with no basis in reality) about the idea that the car CULTure lifestyle is sustainable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 12th 2024, 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC