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TEPCO concealed radiation data before explosion at No. 3 reactor – Workers got year’s dose in hours

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 04:35 PM
Original message
TEPCO concealed radiation data before explosion at No. 3 reactor – Workers got year’s dose in hours
Tokyo Electric Power Co. concealed data showing spikes in radiation levels at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant in March, one day before a hydrogen explosion injured seven workers.

The Asahi Shimbun obtained a 100-page internal TEPCO report containing minute-to-minute data on radiation levels at the plant as well as pressure and water levels inside the No. 3 reactor from March 11 to April 30.

The data has never been released by the company that operates the stricken plant. ...

TEPCO concealed radiation data before explosion at No. 3 reactor – Workers received year’s dose within hours
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Direct link to Asahi Shimbum article:
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Doesn't sound like we can trust them with any radiation spread maps, then.
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I am of the considered opinion that
you couldn't trust TEPCO to predict the outcome of a flare gun fight in a gun powder factory.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. Does that possibly mean Arne Gunderson was right
That there was what he calls a "prompt criticality" explosive event rather than just a simple hydrogen explosion?
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Nope. In fact, it doesn't mean anything.
Numbers that are unreported are not "hidden" - especially when they're consistent with other reported figures.

People keep making the same mistake over and over and over. Part of it is Japan's fault for reporting radiation levels in terms of absorbed dose. That just confuses the matter unnecessarily. If, for instance, there were radioiodine I the area that was reported as 300mSv/hour, that would be the dose an unprotected man would receive if he stayed there for an hour... But the workers were NOT unprotected. Workers with the appropriate gear on would get very little dose.

Tepco may or may not have reported the levels seen in this piece, but they did report how many people have received a 300mSv dose.

None so far.
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Iodine 131 is a gamma emitter and a beta emitter
While respirators prevent iodine uptake reducing CEDE dose, they do squat to for the gamma component from Iodine-131. Most survey meters can read both, if properly configured.

The gamma fraction from Iodine-131 is about 10% of the total, so if the dose of 300 mSv/hr is all from Iodine (which is probably not the case here) the the gamma fraction is 30 mSv/Hr, or about 3 R/hr.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Which is why they avoided the areas where this was a concern.
The "article" claims that workers received a year's dose in hours... yet nobody received that dose (in "hours" or days).

And workers that have to enter such areas were provided with more approporiate (Demron, etc) gear pretty quickly that can reduce gamma doses as well.
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Someguyinjapan Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wrong
Edited on Sun May-15-11 10:09 PM by Someguyinjapan
No, Baggins, the correct answer is that we don't know how many workers received that dose. The article implies that the workers were exposed to that level of information, but information concerning the number of workers who absorbed said amount has not been provided for. An absence of data does not equal a "no"-it simply means that information is not there. The article does not in any way unequivocally state that no workers absorbed that does of radiation-so why would you conclude that?

Once again, you need to be reminded to stop making assumptions based on information that does not support them. As a physicist you should know better.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. What makes you think he's a physicist?
I've seen nothing in any of his posts suggesting he's a physicist.

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Someguyinjapan Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I asked him directly
And he stated he majored in physics at university and worked on nuclear submarines. In the absence of any way to verify this I take it at face value.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Ok, found the thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=290899&mesg_id=291022

<snip>

1.) Are you a physicist?
2.) Are you a nuclear physicist?


I don't earn a living as a nuclear physicist, but I did major in the subject and spent more than a day or two in the engineering spaces of a couple submarine classes a couple decades back. You can decide for yourself whether that makes a "yes" or a "no".

<snip>


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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Nope.
They have, in fact, reported on the doses that workers have received. It isn't an "absence of data".
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Interesting claim
Please prove the negative
And pls show tour work in crayon for full marks
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. There's no need to "prove the negative".
Edited on Mon May-16-11 09:42 PM by FBaggins
The plant workers who are tasked with going close to the reactors are wearing equipment that measures their exposure and those with significant exposure have been given tests that also measure their internal dose. The number that exceeded the 100 mSv threshold has been reported multiple times as have the couple that came closest to the (new) 250 mSv level. The two that did were the ones who worked for hours in highly radioactive water... not workers who approached a door.

Frankly... where's your insistence on them documenting anything? They CLAIM that workers received a given dose. Where was that ever reported?

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. You have no clue what happened there - none
so stop it

yup
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Come on...

Don't be so harsh. He's got a vivid imagination of what has happened, what is happening and what will happen there.
If he stops with his "visions", terrible mixed metaphors and hilarious math, what's going to cause coffee to shoot out of my nose? Even his attempts at insults make me giggle.


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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. The evidence is leaning that way. nt
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nah
Gunny is a fraud just like all those UFO JFK ghost zombie nutters don't you remember when bags proved that with his +12 industry of nuke singing sword
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