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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:18 PM
Original message
Nissan working on recharging Leaf with solar power
By YURI KAGEYAMA
The Associated Press
updated 7/11/2011 2:05:39 PM ET 2011-07-11T18:05:39

YOKOHAMA, Japan — Japanese automaker Nissan is testing a super-green way to recharge its Leaf electric vehicle using solar power, part of a broader drive to improve electricity storage systems.

Nissan's Leaf went on sale late last year, but the automaker is looking ahead to about five years time when aging Leaf vehicles may offer alternative business opportunities in using their lithium-ion batteries as a storage place for electricity.

Nissan Motor Corp. acknowledges that, once the Leaf catches on, a flood of used batteries could result as the life span of a battery is longer than an electric vehicle's.

Electricity generation and storage are drawing attention in Japan after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami caused massive blackouts in the country's northeast. A nuclear power plant that went into meltdown, Fukushima Dai-ichi, after backup generators were destroyed by the tsunami, is also renewing fears about a power crunch.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43711135/ns/business-going_green/



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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who knows anything about these cars?
Can they recharge while driving at all, or is it all "plug in and recharge" like a cell phone?
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3waygeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. There's regenerative braking...
where the drive motor works in reverse, generating electricity that goes back into the battery. I would assume the Leaf has some form of regenerative braking; I know other full electrics & hybrids do. So do F1 race cars -- their KERS system, charged under braking, is good for a short burst of roughly 80 extra horsepower.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Just to flesh out your excellent point
Regenerative Braking Circuits

Regenerative braking is used in vehicles that make use of electric motors, primarily fully electric vehicles and hybrid electric vehicles. One of the more interesting properties of an electric motor is that, when it's run in one direction, it converts electrical energy into mechanical energy that can be used to perform work (such as turning the wheels of a car), but when the motor is run in the opposite direction, a properly designed motor becomes an electric generator, converting mechanical energy into electrical energy. This electrical energy can then be fed into a charging system for the car's batteries.

In a regenerative braking system, the trick to getting the motor to run backwards is to use the vehicle's momentum as the mechanical energy that puts the motor into reverse. Momentum is the property that keeps the vehicle moving forward once it's been brought up to speed. Once the motor has been reversed, the electricity generated by the motor is fed back into the batteries, where it can be used to accelerate the car again after it stops. Sophisticated electronic circuitry is necessary to decide when the motor should reverse, while specialized electric circuits route the electricity generated by the motor into the vehicle's batteries. In some cases, the energy produced by these types of brakes is stored in a series of capacitors for later use. In addition, since vehicles using these kinds of brakes also have a standard friction braking system, the vehicle's electronics must decide which braking system is appropriate at which time. Because so much is controlled electronically in a regenerative braking system, it's even possible for the driver to select certain presets that determine how the vehicle reacts in different situations. For instance, in some vehicles a driver can select whether regenerative braking should begin immediately whenever the driver's foot comes off the accelerator pedal and whether the braking system will take the car all the way to 0 mph (0 kilometers per hour) or will let the car coast slightly...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/regenerative-braking1.htm
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Like a cell phone
No charging while rolling
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Geez, when I was a kid, I had a bike with a light on it.
It was hooked up to the tire somehow, and as I pedaled, and the tire turned, I recharged the damn light.

Why can't someone make a car along those lines?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hybrids and EVs do use a form of that idea for slowing down.
The laws of physics prohibit that idea from working as the sole source of energy.

On your bike, engaging the generator would slow down the bike (a little), you would have to pedal harder with the generator and light running.

Any generator would slow the car down, so a car could never be fully powered that way.

BUT, hybrids and electric vehicles DO use regenerative braking, meaning engage a generator to slow down the vehicle and get back some of the power.

If you know anyone with a Prius, go for a ride and they can show you.

:hi:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. That could be why the big fan on my sailboat doesn't help.
Good explanation SKP :hi:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I always slept through those damn science classes!
I have to say that, even though I see the Prius cars all over hell, I do not know one single soul who owns one. My vehicle is a 1985 gas sipping subcompact that gets well over 30 mpg in unfavorable driving conditions. It has less that 100K on it and I intend to drive it until it dies. The radio sometimes doesn't work and it has a few dents, but the insurance couldn't be cheaper. But it ain't no Prius, that's for sure!!! I know that in the years ahead, I will have to bite the bullet and get another car. I would like to get one that lasts for 20 or 30 years, if possible!

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The missing info: every electric motor is also a generator when you spin it manually
First, every electrical wire that has power running through it has a magnetic field that surrounds it all along its length.

Very simplistically speaking, electric motors are only a shaft with an inner ring of magnets surrounded by a hollow case with coils of wire arranged in proper fashion on the inside edge. The shaft spins only due to the magnetic field that is running through the wire coils.

Give it electricity and it gives you rotation of the shaft. Example: the electric motor in a hybrid car or all-electric car like the Nissan Leaf during acceleration or maintaining speed.

Manually spin the shaft and it will produce electricity, it becomes a generator. Example: wind turbines. (actually any generator from hydro to coal to nuclear)

Regenerative braking is nothing more than using the motor to generate electricity instead of using the brakes (which generate heat when stopping). The brakes are still used for the last few mph to actually stop the vehicle but since the electric motor is both generating a small amount of electricity and almost completely stopping the vehicle, hybrid owners and owners of all-electric cars like the Nissan Leaf won't have to change their brakes as often as you or I do with our vehicles. Said another way, regenerative braking saves wear and tear on the brakes.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Well, that's a sales point right there!
Brake jobs are getting more expensive all the time.

This LEAF, though--you can't do a 6 to 8 hundred mile road trip in it. I guess if I did go "new tech" I'd have to stick with the hybrids. Of course, that's not happening any time soon, unless I hit the lotto.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Road trip? Why not rent a car when you go that far out of town?
Whenever I used to go out on the road I rented a full size car. That saves wear and tear on my own vehicle so it lasts longer and also saves relationships too.

But seriously, there will eventually be thousands of recharging stations on the freeways so road trips won't be such an issue.

Reference:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/transportation/2010/06/28/i-5-to-become-the-nations-first-electric-highway/
http://www.theenvironmentalblog.org/2010/10/1000-ev-charging-stations-slated-for-oregon-i-5-corridor/
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. All of the present hybrids and EV's have regenerative braking
in fact that is what helps them in their good in town stop and go driving range

I still have one of those little generators you're talking about. It was better for someone else seeing you than it was in your seeing them but on a real dark night they were better than nothing. Faster you went the more light you had but trouble was they didn't really put out enough light to make going fast safe. My old cushman was kind of like that too.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I understand there are two models out now,
one that allows battery switching and one that recharges by drawing from a power station.

Hawaii has the plug kind but not the battery switching kind.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm surprised to read that they think the batteries will outlive the vehicles
I'm not sure whether they're saying they have exceptional batteries... or a really poor quality car. :)

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