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HUge untappped resource for bio-methane - animal waste - example:

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 04:04 PM
Original message
HUge untappped resource for bio-methane - animal waste - example:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june04/pigs_6-3.html


North Carolina's factory hog farms are producing massive amounts of pig feces which presents a considerable environmental problems. This waste material could be used to produce methane and then electricity. Eliminating much of the waste material and producing another product of economic value - power!

"North Carolina's ten million hogs produce twice as much feces and urine as the populations of the cities of Los Angeles, New York and Chicago combined."(?!)




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North Carolina's ten million hogs produce twice as much feces and urine as the populations of the cities of Los Angeles, New York and Chicago combined. Industrial farms, most with thousands of hogs each, store the waste in open-air pits, called lagoons. They spray the waste, untreated, as manure on adjacent fields.

Neighbors say the stench can be unbearable. The Morning Star Baptist church in Battleboro is about half a mile from a large hog farm. Evelyn Powell runs the church day care center.

EVELYN POWELL: The kids say it stinks out there. They get nauseous, they get sick when it is at a high pitch, and they are unable to go outside and play and enjoy our quality of life at the day care.

McARTHER KING: I like to walk everyday, but sometimes I come out, I can't even walk because the odor is so bad.

JEFFREY KAYE: Powell calls the lagoons "open air toilets," and notes residents have to keep their septic tanks covered.

EVELYN POWELL: The hog farmers can open theirs up and just be a great big football field full of manure all day long and we are supposed to smell it and accept it. I think it should be unconstitutional to mess up somebody's community, the way they have messed ours up.

JEFFREY KAYE: Environmental activists such as Rick Dove of the Riverkeeper Alliance charge that pig waste creates more than just a stink.

RICK DOVE: The land that you're looking at is also very poorly suited for this kind of operation.

JEFFREY KAYE: Dove takes visitors on aerial tours of industrial pig operations. The farms, concentrated in the eastern part of the state, produce more manure than the land can absorb, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Dove often spots pig waste from sprayers being spread on saturated fields, running off into waterways.

RICK DOVE: Wetlands normally process nutrients, and they're the place where the algae grows. They're sort of the filters of the water before it's released to the ocean. The problem is though, you're looking at wetlands that are completely overburdened. These wetlands are being worked to death trying to process these nutrients that run off these hog factories.
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It's food for thought (pardon the metaphor).


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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is a definite possible fuel source
Either for biomethane or biodiesel (via algae).

I've heard talk about using human effluent, which would work, but I would strongly suspect that chemicals in gray water such as chlorine might impede the process.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. We currently are spendng millions of $s to treat waste animal and human

and it could be used as a fuel source. .. and be reducing GHG emmissions!

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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Idaho project will be producing "natural" gas in 2007
"If cow patties are the new black gold, southern Idaho may be the equivalent of a Texas oil field.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A161471

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Very interesting article. Gives you an idea of the potential for cow
"patties"!

~~

"The potential size of the green gas market in the state of Idaho is quite large," said Keiser. "If even half of the animal waste in the state were utilized for methane production, it would offset one-third of all natural gas consumption annually and on a renewable basis."

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Intrepid Technology and Resources, a home-grown, publicly traded company from Idaho Falls, would like to capitalize on the recent interest in renewable energy by using what they see as a vast, untapped natural resource: cow manure.

Intrepid has plans to transform millions of tons of the stuff through bio-digester conversion into pipeline-quality methane gas to heat Idaho homes beginning next summer. A new 15-year contract with Intermountain Gas Company to accomplish this feat, beginning in 2007, marks the first time a biogas company will sell its product commercially.

"Dairies may have been contributing to groundwater issues in recent years." he said. "Biomass facilities could assist in managing dairy waste and avoid water impacts, while helping dairies to become more energy self-sufficient."

But where some see an environmental threat, Dennis Keiser, president and CEO of Intrepid Technology and Resources, sees opportunity. He refers to the sprawling dairy farms of southern Idaho as the "West Magic Valley Biogas Field."

]"The potential size of the green gas market in the state of Idaho is quite large," said Keiser. "If even half of the animal waste in the state were utilized for methane production, it would offset one-third of all natural gas consumption annually and on a renewable basis."

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Just makes me wonder how much energy could be produced from those Carolina hogs? TWICE the amount of 'raw material' as produced by Los Angeles, Chicago and New York COMBINED!






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hankthecrank Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes very good use
After it does the fuel than it needs to go back to soil to feed the plants.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Huge untapped resource for biomethane: HUMAN waste.
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poopfuel Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. plenty of links here to Arcata marsh
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. They found that harvesting methane
Was VERY expensive and wound up taking almost as much energy as they got out of it.
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poopfuel Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. take the methane, power ethanol plants with it
no fossil fuel input. Being done in Brazil and India.
Design better energy systems, I always say. We're pretty clever when we want to be.

It may be more affordable now since oil prices went up. Speculation, I realize.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-21-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Who are "they". Any links??
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Slightly disingenuous
It doesn't seem like this will ever be a large source of energy. Animals are not an energy source, and what they do pass-on amounts to precious little.

This article describes the need to clean up biohazards and unplesant smell, which is fine. But the underlying problem is the waste and destructive nature of such a meat-heavy diet.

From a sustainable energy and agriculture standpoint, using energy from livestock waste is like putting a hybrid drivetrain in a Hummer. (Or, if you will, like bailing a sinking ship with a bucket.)

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nearly ...
> From a sustainable energy and agriculture standpoint, using energy from livestock
> waste is like putting a hybrid drivetrain in a Hummer. (Or, if you will, like
> bailing a sinking ship with a bucket.)

And for the same reason, it should be actioned.

Think:
1) The energy is currently going to waste.
2) The process can be applied elsewhere (e.g., human waste)
3) Turning a juggernaut around takes time and distance ... it requires a series
of small actions over time rather than a single large attempt (which will probably
break the steering mechanism).

There is absolutely no way that the carnivores of this world will stop eating
meat this year (or next or the one after that ...). Hence this waste will be
with us for a few years yet. Why not make best use of the situation?
The available energy of even the animal component is sufficient to allow at
least one coal-fired station to close without replacement.

It doesn't matter today whether you are building a new nuclear power station
or a new mega-wind-farm of the same power ... the fact that this biowaste can
be used to reduce demand is a benefit, not a penalty.

It will take a lot of time to adjust the "meat-heavy diet" and throughout that
time there will be a demand for meat. The wise man would use as many by-products
of that meat as possible in order to achieve the ultimate goal (survival) while
the struggle for the minor goal (sustainable food sources) is ongoing.
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes
Though I maintain that meat is always energy-expensive (no matter how much animal waste and miscellany is recycled), there will be plenty of opportunities to expediently reduce the waste by recycling it. But I'd hope that the price of meat would rise somewhat in the meantime, and ideally have an agricultural policy that converted livestock industry over to something more efficient.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. A glaring false premise here...
It will take a lot of time to adjust the "meat-heavy diet" and throughout that
time there will be a demand for meat.


The assumption -- and I believe it to be a false one -- at work here is that humans will have the option of voluntarily reducing their meat intake over a long period of time. Nature may have something to say about that.

One of the biggest problems with the meat industry is the incredible amounts of fresh water it requires for every animal, along with the pollution of fresh water supplies due to waste runoff and slaughtering facilities. Couple this with the fact that global freshwater supplies are diminishing rapidly, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Reality is not always what humans dictate it to be. Nature may have a slight input of her own toward that determination. Am I advocating that we completely stop eating meat? No. What I am advocating is that we learn to eat a lot less of it -- kind of like how we all did for some 6,950 years or so since the beginnings of agriculture 7,000 years ago. Note -- I'm not certain on the exact date of the beginning of agriculture, I'm just trying to show that a heavy meat diet is a relatively new thing in human existence outside of arctic tribes.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. MAO's cultural Revolution
China - early 1960's, it was mandated that all rural farms be given kits, to pipe gas from composting waste, to gas burners, to heat water. And gas lights.

The Gas lights, meant kids learned to read and write, the gas burner meant boiled drinking water, which means fewer intestinal problems, higher farm productivity.

But the kids that learned to read and write are the ones who marched on Tienanmen.

I always thought there were lots of BTU's in Pig shit.
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