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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:38 PM
Original message
What is this call I just received from the NRA
claiming that the Obama Administration has made some kind of deal with an international organization to confiscate our guns. Received the call not more than 5 minutes ago.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do you really think it was from the NRA? Was it a recorded
message or a live person?

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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It was a live person that identified himself as calling
from the NRA. I didn't listen more than a few seconds then told him he was right wing nut case and to go f---- himself.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Without more details its hard to respond the specific claims, but it doesn't suprise me.

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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. You're right - a RW nut case who's probably a member, but
but not an official spokesperson.

If you have his number on caller id, you should turn him in to the NRA.
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Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. That may not be the most productive tack.
Satisfying, but not productive.

I would suggest, if it happens again, to let them talk. Act like you agree, that way you will either 1.get info to back the statement (unlikely) or 2.give them enough rope with which to hang themselves (more likely, added bonus of being really funny).
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. Delete -- I responded to myself. Totally unnecessary. nt
Edited on Sun May-09-10 02:34 PM by gateley
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The thing of it is I support the right to bear arms and was a
NRA member for years. The NRA today is nothing but a arm of the Republican Party. Even Bush Sr. quit the NRA.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. No you are wrong about that
the Republican Party today is nothing but an arm of the NRA.

Fear works on the gullible and we have a bunch of those.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. No surprise --->
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. I expect to see our own NRA apologists show up to
defend them as usual.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Come on now.
No one on this forum would use gun control propaganda about gun confiscation to argue a point.

:sarcasm:
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It amazes me how many anti-NRA folks get these phone calls from the NRA

:shrug:
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Ha.
I was thinking that too.

Serious grain of salt on this one.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. This illustrates my biggest problem with the NRA -- hyperbole.

I think its unlikely the US will confiscate guns from regular civilians, but it is more likely that arms and ammo sales will be affected greatly. For example, some prominent anti-small-arms groups want to stop the sales of military surplus to other nations. This surplus is very popular in the us and without it ammo and arms prices would increase.

I'm still hoping the South Africans dump a lot of 7.62x51 again like they did 10 years ago.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. That's a basic problem with all RW orgs, not just the NRA.
Lies and deception are their stock & trade.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Its the stock and trade of anti-RKBA advocates too, do you not agree?

Its a problem with the political rhetoric surrounding guns.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. My sentiments exactly.
The continuous Chicken Little rhetoric doesn't help them one bit.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. One of the major reasons I joined was to achieve voting status and start asking board of directors..

to take a stand on hyperbole coming out of the NRA-ILA.

We don't have to do that.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Apparently, they think otherwise
The Chicken Little act's been their stock in trade for over three decades, and apparently it does get the membership to get out the checkbook and donate and additional $17.23, $34.92 or $48.15. They wouldn't do it if it didn't keep the money coming in. A read I can recommend in this regard is Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist by Richard Feldman.

My reasons for joining were similar to aikoaiko's, namely to try to influence the organization for the better; I figure that kind of appeal carries more weigh coming from a paid-up member.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. FactCheck has debunked a bunch of NRA claims
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Factcheck was not even handed in that piece.

Yes, the NRA exaggerated, but there was a kernel of truth in everything they said.

Factcheck didn't really debunk the NRA's claims but called them on their exaggerations.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Maybe its not suprising since the same foundation that supports factcheck supports the Brady Camp...

...an organization that is prone to distorting facts.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Is that a joke???
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. No joke. Both entities are funded by the same foundation, in part.
Edited on Sun May-09-10 02:42 PM by aikoaiko
The Annenberg Foundation funds the Brady Center folks directly.
http://www.annenbergfoundation.org/grants_database/grants_database_show.htm?doc_id=312386

The Annenberg Foundation funds the Annenberg Public Policy Center which funds Factcheck.org.
http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/About.aspx
http://www.factcheck.org/


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Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm...
I'm a member and I received no call.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. They already have your check. nt
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Good. Hopefully it helps fund their training programs. n/t
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I am not a member and have received I think three calls
in the past couple weeks, I have also received a couple things in the mail from them in the same period. One of the main reasons I quit the NRA was I got something in the mail from them at least once a week wanting donations to fight Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy's gun ban, that shit gets old after a while..
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. Think I received the same call from the John Birch society
about a year ago. Oddly it was while we were doing our own calling for OFA.
Argued with the woman for almost a half an hour.
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Are they still around?
I have never been called by them, nor have I ever gotten any mail from them. I thought they had fizzled out of existance. Last I heard of them was when the president of the John Birch Society was on that airliner that the Russians shot down.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. from what I have heard they are growing.
can't seem to find anything and don't have time to check. Sorry
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. called ID? can you *69 to get the number? If so then reverse yellow pages it
to find out who it was really from
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. How come I never get those calls?
I have been an NRA member for many years and I have yet to get the first telephone call from them. I get their daily email update, and sometimes snail mail, but that's all.

I just checked the past few days emails and there isn't anything about Obama and some kind of international organization. There are some over-the-top gun organizations that are spreading the rumor that Obama is going to agree to a UN treaty that will consficate all privately owned guns in the US, but the NRA is not spreading that rumor.
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xfundy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. The NRA called here awhile back.
Voice: "Hello, I'm ****, calling on behalf of Wayne laPierre and the NRA."

Me: "WHO? Wayne WHO?"

voice: Wayne laPierre."

me: That sounds like a Frenchy.

voice: No, he's the head of the NRA.

me: The NRA's been took over by the damn French?!?!

voice: No, Wayne laPierre is an American.

me: Well he sure sounds like some kinda nancy boy ho•mo•sexular freak! I don't support them damn French and I sure as Hell don't want nuthin to do with no fruit loops! I cain't b'leeve th' god fearin' NRA's done been took over by a French FAG! Save us Jaysus! listen here, you homoFrench faghagger supporter, don't yew call here no more or I'll have my guns ready!! You HEER ME?

Funny, haven't had a call since.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
32. The international organization is the United Nations
and their push for unilateral disarmament of individual (not government) firearms.

Google "United Nations Gun Control"

Then go to youtube and look for "United Nations Gun Control"

What you find is truly scary.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Like this?
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Yup, just like that
Have any idea what the deleted post (right above yours) said to be deleted?
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Deleted message
Edited on Mon May-10-10 06:52 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
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Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Probably called us Freepers or RW trolls NT
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. That seems to happen quite often to people who support 2A/CCW
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Travis Coates Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Of course
No true progressive supports gun rights.

Why does that line of reasoning sound so familiar?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. The NRA wants your money
That's what their calls are always about.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
42. The NRA is likely talking about the UN treaties which facilitate civilian disarmament.
That is a real movement in the UN - international disarmament (citizens only).
I guess the UN figures that if their troops are sent to a UN country then they want the people as controllable as possible.

I don't worry about it too much. Even IF the president signed such a treaty two things stand in the way.
a) States need to ratify treaties. Most states nowadays are all for individual RKBA. Probably would not happen.
b) Treaties calling for international handgun bans would be unconstitutional here. Treaties cannot infringe on US protected rights.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. States need to ratify treaties?

Ratification of an international treaty

In the US, the treaty power is a coordinated effort between the Executive branch and the Senate. The President may form and negotiate a treaty, but the treaty must be advised and consented to by a two-thirds vote in the Senate. Only after the Senate approves the treaty can the President ratify it. Once a treaty is ratified, it becomes binding on all the states under the Supremacy Clause. While the United States House of Representatives does not vote on it at all, the requirement for Senate advice and consent to ratification makes it considerably more difficult in the US than in other democracies to rally enough political support for international treaties. In the US, the President usually submits a treaty to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (SFRC) along with an accompanying resolution of ratification or accession. If the treaty and resolution receive favorable committee consideration (a committee vote in favor of ratification or accession) the treaty is then forwarded to the floor of the full U.S. Senate for such a vote. The treaty or legislation does not apply until it has been ratified. A multilateral agreement may provide that it will take effect upon its ratification by less than all of the signatories.<1> Even though such a treaty takes effect, it does not apply to signatories that have not ratified it. Accession has the same legal effect as ratification. Accession is a synonym for ratification for treaties already negotiated and signed by other states.<2>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification


Many states have RKBA in their state constitution. For example, Florida and Idaho:



Florida: (a) The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law.
(b) There shall be a mandatory period of three days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and delivery at retail of any handgun. For the purposes of this section, "purchase" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer, and "handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver. Holders of a concealed weapon permit as prescribed in Florida law shall not be subject to the provisions of this paragraph.
(c) The legislature shall enact legislation implementing subsection (b) of this section, effective no later than December 31, 1991, which shall provide that anyone violating the provisions of subsection (b) shall be guilty of a felony.
(d) This restriction shall not apply to a trade in of another handgun.

Idaho: The people have the right to keep and bear arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony. emphasis added
http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm


I do agree that the chances of getting a treaty ratified that would disarm American citizens is slim to none. Our country has a history of a failure to ratify many international treaties.



A vital foreign policy concern is being egregiously neglected: America’s dismal record regarding its treaty obligations. Since taking power in 2001, the Bush administration has blocked the adoption of numerous treaties. Over an even longer period, the U.S. Senate failed or refused to ratify treaties already signed. This behavior has appalled our friends worldwide and angered the world community.

During the Clinton administration, Jesse Helms (R-N.C.), then chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, blocked ratification of worthwhile treaties. Many of those treaties remain unratified today. Meanwhile, the Bush administration’s record in blocking treaties such as the Kyoto Protocol is well known.

The United States Constitution describes the duties of the President and Senate regarding treaties as follows: “ shall have Power, by and with the consent of the Senate, to make treaties; provided two-thirds of the Senate concur” (Article II, Section 2; #2). Both the current president and Senate have failed to live up to their obligations. Why?

Increasingly, U.S. foreign policy has come under the control of neo-conservative religious nationalists who view the United States as a superpower that must not be constrained by any international treaty, even a human rights treaty, whose provisions exceed the limits in U.S. law. By so acting, they refuse to allow the emergence of any new laws or rules that are supported by international consensus. The limits of American law become de facto limits for the world.

The view in Washington was once very different. Following World War II, there was great support in the United States for a new kind of world order based on cooperation among nations. This country was in the vanguard of those proclaiming and defending explicit visions of human rights. By contrast, U.S. foreign policy in recent years has been unilateral and preemptive, costing us friends worldwide.

Because the issue of blocked treaties has not received the attention it deserves, we offer the following list of treaties that the United States has failed to ratify. For those who believe that the building of a new planetary community is vital for world peace and prosperity, this should be a major factor in the upcoming election. It is an issue the Foreign Relations Committee needs to address, especially if we hope to repair the poor reputation of the United States in the world and, in time, hope for our nation to resume its former moral leadership.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=kurtz_28_3

Note: a lengthy list follows and includes the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty, the UN Framework Convention on Climate Control (UNFCCC), the Kyoto Protocol, and the the Mine Ban Treaty
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
47. Mayor Daley's new idea might have prompted the NRA call ...

Daley: Send gun industry lawsuit to World Court
April 27, 2010

Six years after the state Supreme Court dismissed his $433 million lawsuit against the gun industry, Mayor Daley today called for a change of venue — to the World Court normally reserved for disputes between nations and crimes against humanity.

Wrapping up the sixth annual Richard J. Daley Global Cities Forum, Daley convinced more than a dozen of his counterparts from around the world to approve a resolution urging "redress against the gun industry through the courts of the world" in The Hague.

"This is coming from international mayors. They're saying, 'We’re tired of your guns, America. ... We don't want those anymore because guns kill and injure people,' " Daley told a news conference at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

"If we ship over poison to a country, don’t you think we should be responsible for it? That’s what they’re saying: 'Be responsible for what you manufacture and sell in my country.' ... You have to think outside the box. You have to be about how you protect your people."

Mexico City Mayor Marcelo Ebrard Casauban noted that the Mexican government is waging a brutal war against drug cartels that get “85 percent” of their weapons from the United States.

"The U.S. government says, 'We cannot do a lot of things to stop this,'" Casauban said. "We should take actions with legal effects in order to stop this trade between the United States and Mexico."

Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter acknowledged that using the World Court is a long-shot. But, he said “you never know until you try” and it’s worth a try to counter the political muscle and money of the National Rifle Association.

"We have to do different things. The political establishment in many state capitals — and certainly in Washington — so deathly afraid of the NRA that people cannot make the right decision for their own constituents," Nutter said.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/2206864,daley-gun-lawsuit-world-court-042710.article


The NRA-ILA has an article that discusses this:


Mayor Daley Insults America In Pre-McDonald Ploy

Fearful that America’s Supreme Court will soon strike down Chicago’s handgun ban, frustrated by the Illinois legislature’s rejection of his anti-gun agenda, and repudiated by American courts and legislatures over his plan to sue federally licensed manufacturers and dealers of firearms for third-party crimes, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley (D) is showing contempt for his own country’s and state’s institutions, by seeking a foreign entity to enforce his anti-gun agenda against the American people.

This week, Daley called for “redress against the gun industry” in the World Court, in The Hague, Netherlands. Forgetting or not caring who his constituents are, Daley blurted “This is coming from international mayors. They’re saying, ‘We’re tired of your guns, America.’”
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5789


I suspect that is the reason behind the NRA call. I received a long string of calls from them a few months ago, but since I call screen, I simply didn't answer as I know that all their calls are attempts to raise funds by exaggerating the issues. Eventually, they gave up calling me.






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