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Keeping An Eye On "Terror Watchlist" Legislation (Used to prevent gun ownership without due process)

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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 11:51 AM
Original message
Keeping An Eye On "Terror Watchlist" Legislation (Used to prevent gun ownership without due process)
Friday, May 20, 2011


Last week, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee rejected an amendment by Rep. Mike Quigley (D-Ill.), which proposed to allow the Attorney General to disapprove the NICS check of a person who has been placed on the FBI's secret "terrorist watchlist." Similar legislation has been introduced by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) and Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.).

The NRA opposes all of these proposals for a variety of reasons, chiefly that they propose to deny a constitutionally protected, fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms without due process of law. While some of the proposals pretend to allow a person to appeal his watchlisting in court, the proposals would prevent the watchlisted person or his lawyer from examining and challenging the government's "evidence," the accused would not be entitled to a trial by a jury of his peers, and the judge would not be allowed to examine the government's evidence in full.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6817
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. The House did the right thing - using secret lists to deny basic rights
has no place in a free society...
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Agreed. "Secret lists" give me the willies n/t
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Now if only everybody could get on the same page about that!
Some "Democrats" think that it's A-OK to switch sides on the entire issue of due process and the Terrah Watch List if guns are involved.

Many Republicans think it's inappropriate for guns, but okay when it comes to travel.

And then you have people like Chuck Schumer, who I otherwise hugely like, behaving like fucking idiots and saying that the watch list and TSA-style protections should be extended to Amtrak.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's unfortunate to see even a small number of Democrats on the wrong side of this one
At least there are some Republicans in bed with them.
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shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Personally, I don't look at RKBA as a left/right issue. It's a national
issue that is above that mess dealing specifically with unalienable civil rights. It's the one thing that trancends political beliefs, IMHO.

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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes a bipartisan effort to turn the USA into a corrupt craphole
Where the government official dies whatever he wants to you by placing you on a list. That's where they want to go with this
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Soon there mayl be a list of people who post on forums such as DU ...
and disagree with the big corporations and the wealthy running this country.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Does anyone remember Richard Nixon and his enemies list?

Nixon's Enemies List

Nixon’s Enemies List is the informal name of what started as a list of President of the United States Richard Nixon’s major political opponents compiled by Charles Colson, written by George T. Bell<1> (assistant to Colson, special counsel to the White House), and sent in memorandum form to John Dean on September 9, 1971. The list was part of a campaign officially known as “Opponents List” and “Political Enemies Project.” The list became public knowledge when Dean mentioned during hearings with the Senate Watergate Committee that a list existed containing those whom the president did not like. Journalist Daniel Schorr, who happened to be on the list, managed to obtain copies of it later that day.<2>



The official purpose, as described by the White House Counsel's Office, was to "screw" Nixon's political enemies, by means of tax audits from the Internal Revenue Service, and by manipulating "grant availability, federal contracts, litigation, prosecution, etc."<3>

In a memorandum from John Dean to Lawrence Higby (August 16, 1971), Dean explained the purpose of the list succinctly:

“This memorandum addresses the matter of how we can maximize the fact of our incumbency in dealing with persons known to be active in their opposition to our Administration; stated a bit more bluntly—how we can use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon%27s_Enemies_List


Nixon would have LOVED the secret "Terror Watchlist".
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discntnt_irny_srcsm Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes.
Quigley from Chicago, no mystery here. You'd have to be in DC to find a more pistol hostile environment.
Oh! He's a congressman. He'd be in both. ;)

I can go back to Tail-Gunner Joe.
Do you remember or have you read about McCarthy's lists?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, but I didn't know he was a tail gunner ...

In 1942, shortly after the U.S. entered World War II, McCarthy was commissioned into the United States Marine Corps, despite the fact that his judicial office exempted him from compulsory service. His education qualified him for an automatic commission as an officer, and he became a second lieutenant after completing basic training. He served as an intelligence briefing officer for a dive bomber squadron in the Solomon Islands and Bougainville. McCarthy reportedly chose the Marines with the hope that being a veteran of this branch of the military would serve him best in his future political career.<14> He would leave the Marines with the rank of captain. It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private." He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.<15> He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time.<14><16>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy


McCarthy is another good example of how "lists" can be misused. Some politicians seem to love to use them to take away the rights of innocent citizens.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is turning into a surprisingly quiet thread. It's odd - I would have thought that at
least of few of the regulars would seize the chance to parade their zealous regard for public safety at the expense of liberal principles. :shrug:
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eqfan592 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-22-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I dunno...
Edited on Sun May-22-11 05:36 PM by eqfan592
..maybe this particular topic as just been beaten into the ground over the last couple of weeks... :shrug:

EDIT: And I mean no offense to the OP, I think it's a good post. I just believe there has been so much debate on the topic that maybe some folks are out of steam when it comes to the issue.
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