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NM court expands police ability to remove guns from cars during traffic stops

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:14 PM
Original message
NM court expands police ability to remove guns from cars during traffic stops
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/deecf46dc0574ceb875e86d0e1f3315c/NM--Supco-Seizing-Guns/

The state Supreme Court has ruled that police can temporarily remove a visible gun from a car during a traffic stop even if they have no suspicion the occupants are dangerous.

The justices said that ensuring the safety of law enforcement officers justifies removal of the gun from a vehicle.

The court issued the unanimous ruling on Friday in a case involving a traffic stop in Hobbs in 2008. Police stopped a car that had an expired license plate and saw a handgun on the back seat floorboard. Police removed the gun and arrested the passenger in the car after determining that he owned the gun and had a felony conviction.

<more>
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. So are you supporting the obvious fourth amendment violation here?
I'm curious. And assuming that you are, where exactly does that power stop? Is the police officer allowed to search the car for guns, "accidentally" find a joint, and arrest the driver?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You should do some research on the ability of the police to search your car
yup
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. There was no 'search'. It was plainly visible. n/t
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Sounds to me like he's simply reporting a piece of information.
I see no advocacy in his post at all. If you find it, please point it out to me.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. He was stopped for a clear offense, and the gun was readily visible.
I find it hard to believe that there was an unreasonable search.

The legal issue was not the issue of a search, rather of the removal of the identified gun from the vehicle.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. The fourth amendment bans search and SEIZURE without a warrant.
I would say that taking something out of your car without probable cause constitutes seizure.
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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. It might be just my state
But plain view seizures are legal.
And the 4a protects against unreasonable search and seizures. Courts have ruled plain view seizures are reasonable and lawful
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Just curious...
what keeps an open carry firearm from being seized under the same statute if visibility is where the bar is set?

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YllwFvr Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. thats a good question
and ive never asked it from that direction before
Firearms in the car can be taken for officers safety, but firearms carried generally cant afaik. Ill see if any of my instructors know anything about that
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. You post this as though it's something new.
Edited on Mon May-23-11 03:24 PM by X_Digger
The police had probable cause (expired license plate), and the handgun was visible (no warrant required).

This is black letter law.

I assume you're trying to tie this to open carry- it ain't working, dear.

If an open carrier gave police cause to think the law was being or was about to be broken, the police would make a 'terry stop', which includes measures regarding officer safety.

However, open carry, absent that reasonable suspicion, is not in and of itself a reason to disarm someone who's open carrying. Multiple courts, in multiple states have stated this- and this decision has no bearing on that.


You need to try harder.
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SlimJimmy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Agreed (nt)
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Apparently it is new, since a court decision is involved.
I couldn't see where the poster was trying to "tie" this to anything. He simply posted a news story.

Open carry and a firearm on the back seat floor are two different things altogether. I believe this was about whether the cop could remove the weapon, and the court ruled that he could. Apparently, there was a legal question involved, or it would not be in court. I don't know NM laws.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just because there's a case doesn't mean it's new..
This was a question of which state law precedent to apply. There are plenty of cases each year that try to put a new twist on an old decision.

I couldn't see where the poster was trying to "tie" this to anything. He simply posted a news story.


Then you haven't been paying attention to his posts :)
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. LOL!111
It is called "news" - deal with it
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Actually he posted an anecdotal current events piece
that has no bearing on the stated purpose of this forum.

He does that alot
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. does that mean the cop
takes the gun while along with insurance card, DL, registration and hands it back along with the documents and ticket?
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. You got a point to make here skippy or is it your normal spam
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Which is why you never tell the police you are armed
unless they ask you directly or you are legally required to do so.

Let the donut eaters sweat :bounce:

Yup
Yup
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MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. are you saying
you want the police (donut eaters) to fear (sweat) you? So if we examine your choice of words carrying is intimidation, got it. Thanks for finally admitting it.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. How , exactly, does one intimidate
by not telling the police one is armed?
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MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. dunno
you'll have to answer that seeing as you're the one who wants to make the "donut eaters sweat."
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. No, I never said I wanted to MAKE the donut eaters sweat
I said LET the donut eaters sweat. If they want to know if I'm armed they can ask me, I'm not volunteering the information
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MyrnaLoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. dodge
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Not even just a little one
If the other person doesn't even know I'm armed how can there be any intent to intimidate? I've seen some people that do carry to intimidate and they manage to work the fact that they're armed into the conversation very early on.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'd have no problem handing my EDC over if pulled over....except
except....It must remain in it's holster, I don't want it removed from it's holster and risk an ND. It doesn't need removed and cleared IMHO.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Meh. I've been stopped at checkpoints many times, for an expired tag once, and with my wife once.
Edited on Tue May-24-11 06:03 PM by benEzra
Every time, I informed the officer I was carrying, per NC law. Every time, the response has been "OK, thanks for letting me know". No drama, no paranoia, and no passing of guns back and forth.
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