Disbelieving 911 operator ignored home invasion call

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/localnews/news8/stories/wfaa040429_am_911.1743fcad5.html


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A Fort Worth family is demanding that a 911 operator be fired after she failed to respond to a potential life-threatening situation.

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"There's people outside with knives," Diaz told the operator. "They are breaking down the door."

Diaz's mother can be heard in the background. Both had retreated to a back bedroom for protection, hoping police could hurry and provide the rest.

<snip>

"OK, who were they, because strangers don't just come bang down your door with knives," the operator told Diaz. "Do you have a brother or father there who they were looking for?"

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Wow. Someone tell me again how if you life is in danger your best bet is to call someone else to take care of it for you.

Is all I have to say!

Breaking down my door would be the last thing those jerkies ever did.

Home invasions can be a whole lot worse than robbery.

I've had loaded shotguns pointed inmy face by family members, a split second away from becoming a wall stain. No thanks. I'd rather take my chances with 911 then have one of my loved ones kill another one. I've known over a dozen friends killed accidentally by guns, I've never known one who saved their life with a gun. I have known people who swear they have, but when they tell their story it becomes clear that they avoided a fistfight, that's all.

Guns: turning fist fights into fatalities.

tear down your doors armed and come at you armed with knives?

And if yours do maybe you should consider killing them just the same.

which was the point of the story at the top of the thread. The 911 operator did not believe them because that is very rare. More often, people try to break into a house quietly, just like a family member trying to return him when everyone else is asleep.

Your last line was funny! :-)

Man you need to find a new crowd to hang with!

When the bill of Rights was written State militias were just citizens like you & me.

I don't. I think most gun advocates sort of fudge the numbers in their minds. Those who grow up around guns all have stories like that, and most can tell you of almost accidentally shooting someone, too. I can. It's just luck that those numbers aren't higher.

I've also known two suicides with guns, and a murder suicide of a friend's parents. I didn't count them, since they might have picked up a knife and done it anyway. I've also known a family of four that was murdered with a sledgehammer. They had plenty of guns, but the murderer was an older foster brother, so they didn't have time to get the guns.

and no one ever killed themself with a gun or anyone else for that matter. No one has ever accidently shot anyone either. I guess I'm not in the "most" part or maybe I'm fudging that zero number in my mind. :eyes:

And you can roll your eyes all you want, but if you are going to tell me that you've never had a friend or family member killed accidentally or through suicide with a gun, then yes, I'm going to believe you are fudging numbers. Or that you didn't grow up in a gun culture.

I've never had a friend or family member killed accidentally or through suicide with a gun. I did know a guy, not so much a friend as an acquaintance, that murdered someone with a shotgun, but I didn't know the victim. In fact, it's the only murder I can think of in my town, gun or otherwise, in my lifetime.

Who has either killed himself using any tool, or been shot accidentally. I do have family shot intentionally, it was during a war, overseas, in the military.

I've also known two suicides with guns, and a murder suicide of a friend's parents. I didn't count them, since they might have picked up a knife and done it anyway.

I don't know about you, but I don't know of anyone who committed suicide with a knife.

A scenario in which someone stabs his/her intimate partner to death and then successfully kills him/herself by cutting his/her wrists, for instance, is unusual to non-existent.

Firearms murder/suicides may be impulsive homicides after which the killer impulsively killed him/herself (usually himself), rather than deal with the situation; or may have been planned as both homicide and suicide. Either way, the double killing would be unlikely to happen with any other weapon.

Absent the suicide plan, someone might indeed pick up a knife and attack another person impulsively. The attack would be less likely to be lethal in that case, of course. And the impulse itself is arguably less likely to be acted on, given the greater risk to the attacker with any weapon other than a firearm.

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Here is the definition of California's state militia, from the Military and Veterans Code. I've underlined for emphasis a few parts that a lot of people will deny, even though it's right here in 1s and 0s:

MILITARY AND VETERANS CODE
SECTION 120-130

120. The militia of the State shall consist of the National Guard,
State Military Reserve and the Naval Militia--which constitute the
active militia --and the unorganized militia.

121. The unorganized militia consists of all persons liable to
service in the militia, but not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

122. The militia of the State consists of all able-bodied male
citizens and all other able-bodied males who have declared their
intention to become citizens of the United States, who are between
the ages of eighteen and forty-five, and who are residents of the
State, and of such other persons as may upon their own application be
enlisted or commissioned therein pursuant to the provisions of this
division, subject, however, to such exemptions as now exist or may be
hereafter created by the laws of the United States or of this State.

123. Whenever the Governor deems it necessary, he or she may order
an enrollment to be made by officers designated by the Governor, of
all persons liable to service in the militia. The enrollment shall
include any information that the Governor may require. Three copies
thereof shall be made: one copy shall be filed in the office of the
clerk of the county in which the enrollment is made, and two copies
in the office of the Adjutant General.

124. Enrollment shall be made upon such notice and in such manner
as the Governor may direct. Every person required by such notice to
enroll who fails or refuses so to do is guilty of a misdemeanor.

125. The following persons shall be exempt from military service:
(a) Persons exempt from military service by the laws of the United
States.
(b) Regular or duly ordained ministers of religion.
(c) Students preparing for the ministry in recognized theological
or divinity schools.
(d) Pilots and mariners actually employed in sea service by a
citizen of the United States.
The above persons shall not be exempt from enrollment but shall
file verified claims for exemption from military service in such
forms and manner as the Governor may direct.

126. The Governor shall appoint boards in number and personnel as
will best accomplish the enrollment and such boards shall be vested
with the authority and power of passing upon and determining the
claims of exemption filed under section 125. An appeal to the
Governor may be taken from the decision of the boards by the State or
any person interested in the matter and within the time prescribed
in regulations promulgated by the Governor.

127. When the National Guard and Naval Militia are on duty as a
combined force at any time, the commanding officer of the whole force
shall be designated by the Governor. When two or more officers are
on duty in the same place, camp, field, command or organization, the
Governor may assign the command to any one of such officers without
regard to seniority of rank or branch of service.

128. The unorganized militia may be called for active duty in case
of war, rebellion, insurrection, invasion, tumult, riot, breach of
the peace, public calamity or catastrophe, or other emergency, or
imminent danger thereof, or may be called forth for service under the
Constitution and laws of the United States. Whenever it is
necessary to call out any portion of the unorganized militia, the
Governor may call for and accept as many volunteers as are required
for such service, under regulations provided by this division.

129. Every member of the militia who is ordered out, or who
volunteers or is drafted under the provisions of this division and
who does not appear at the time and place designated by the Governor,
or under his authority, within twenty-four hours from such time, and
who does not produce a sworn certificate of physical disability from
a physician in good standing, is a deserter and shall be dealt with
as prescribed in the Articles of War of the United States, or by this
division.

130. Members of the militia of the state shall not be segregated on
the basis of race, national origin or ancestry, or color, nor
discriminated against on such basis in enlistments, promotions, or
commissions.
It is hereby declared to be the policy of the State of California
that there shall be equality of treatment and opportunity for all
members of the militia of the state without regard to race, national
origin or ancestry, or color. Such policy shall be put into effect
in the militia by rules and regulations to be issued by the Governor
with due regard to the powers of the federal government which are, or
may, be exercised over all the militia of the state, and to the time
required to effectuate changes without impairing the efficiency or
morale of the militia....

Every citizen of the state of California is obligated to serve at the order of the Governor; the militia is ALL of the people, not just those enrolled in the National Guard or Naval reserve. Other portions of this code provide penalties for dodging militia duty.

Most states have similar definitions of their state militias.

See http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=mvc&codebody=&hits=20 for the Military and Veterans Code table of contents.

"I've known over a dozen friends killed accidentally by guns, I've never known one who saved their life with a gun.

If I may, just where did you find so many friends that die accidental from gunshot wounds? Do you belong to a Russian roulette club or somthin?

as if a homeowner with a gun never f*cked up....

:eyes:

...in matters like this. I assert that at most of the shootings in which a gunman shot up a restaurant or a subway car (school shootings of course do not fall under this assertion) that there was an individual within range with a gun that felt it was a greater priority to piss himself than it was to stand up and return fire. The Texas cafeteria shooting is extremely suspect. Having the means to return fire does not do you a bit of good if your survival instinct has kicked in and you are unable to stop shaking long enough to even remember that you are armed. Of course this individual would be reluctant to report that they were indeed armed throughout the incident and elected to do nothing. Of course I have no proof of this but if you disgree let's you and I go to a Texas Luby's and do an informal survey.

what should you do? Dial 911 and hope for the best?

that you haven't had a gun all along, because your chances of shooting a friend or family member are much higher than of shooting someone breaking into your house.

Probably 43 times more likely. :eyes:

...I have many more recollections of family members shooting other family members thinking a stranger was breaking in than I do of the scenario you bring up.

Maybe it's just because my dick is big enough that I don't feel the need to artificially enhance my opinion of it with a gun.

"...I have many more recollections of family members shooting other family members thinking a stranger was breaking in than I do of the scenario you bring up."

Well my family isn't in the habit of killing each other, with guns or otherwise.


"Maybe it's just because my dick is big enough that I don't feel the need to artificially enhance my opinion of it with a gun."

Nice penis reference, truly one of the better ones I've seen down here in the dungeon, but I'm not a gun owner so you could hardly say I'm artificially enhancing my opinion of anything with a gun.

compensating for?

... cats? dogs? rattlesnakes?

I've never understood why anyone would call women "females".

No, wait. Of course I do.

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Jeez, you go to dinner and you miss all the really clever stuff, it seems.

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Do you have anything of value to contribute to this discussion?

Go ahead and whip it out.

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Strong deadbolts.

Reinforced framing.

Exterior lighting.

Dogs that bark.

I have all four, and no one has attempted to break down my door yet.

and you called 911 and they told you they didn't think anyone was actually trying to break down your door you'd be all set then. It's not like whoever was breaking down your door is going to succeed or go through a window or something. I'm sure by the time they get in you'll be able to convince the 911 operator that you are indeed not joking and they'll have sent someone out to check.



Just out of curiosity, and I don't mean this as an attack on your chosen method of home defense or anything, but does your reinforced, dead-bolted door have windows right next to the doorknob/deadbolt? Almost every door with a deadbolt that I've ever seen does and I've never understood why you'd bother putting a deadbolt on a door when all it would take is breaking one pane of glass to get it open. Hell, they even put deadbolts on flimsy french doors these days.

We have deadbolts that require a key to operate from the inside too. Mine do. I observed these locks to be standard equipment in England, as well. Amazing ingenuity, eh? Can't speak for south of the border ...

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but that doesn't mean they aren't available. That is indeed quite an improvement to the deadbolt that doesn't require a key to lock from the inside. That still doesn't solve the screwdriver problem, but maybe you folks north of the border have come up with a solution to that one too.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374303514262&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395348027&bmUID=1083610130770&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442153103&assortment=primary



Double cylinder deadbolt in polished brass finish provides maximum security
Heavy duty brass construction
Includes 2 keys, latch, strike plate and screws
Fits any door, easy to install
Price $16.99

What you do is hang the key on a long string that reaches to the door when needed, but cannot be seen or reached through the window in the door, if there is one.

Of course, the "screwdriver problem" is solved by ensuring that crooks are issued only good Canadian Robertson screwdrivers.



Hard to pry things with that.


The four times in my life that my homes have been broken into,

- the door was unlocked and I and/or other people were home but not on the ground floor (3 times)
- a window was left open (once ... and the burglars were not strangers and knew that we were away)

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I meant they could just break the window and disassemble the lock. Of course that's not a problem if your door doesn't have windows.

It's amazing how many burglary suspects are known by the victims.

The closest window is a good six feet away.

And with my dogs, I doubt anyone would get anywhere NEAR my door.

I assume your back door and any entry into your basement have a similar level of protection. Steel bars on the windows? Maybe something less conspicuous, like the board with nails in it underneath each window like in one of the Death Wish movies.

...are steel with windows. However, they are both in the fenced area of my yard, where my dogs live. They are a 70-pound hound/shepherd mix and a 50-pound chow-husky mix and are very protective of my wife and me.

Since my home is a single-wide mobile home, there is no basement. But anyone trying to get under the house by going through the skirting would also meet up with the dogs, since they both go under the house from time to time.

When they were puppies, they were smaller than my cat. And while I don't use them for hunting, they make my wife feel safer when she's home alone.

And not all hunting dogs are large, BTW. Beagles, for example, are half the size of my snallest dog. And daschunds were originally bred to go into burrows after small animals.

You realize that dogs can just go off sometimes and kill people, right? Why we should trust that you can keep dogs like that responsibly?

(This is much more interesting than the car analogy.)

Please stay on topic.

Minavasht made the joke already.

Anyway, it's not totally left field. There are folks out there who don't think anyone should be able to own a pitbull, and some who don't think you should own any pets at all. The arguments the former make are reminiscent of those made by gun control advocates. My position is consistant in that I find them uniformly unpersuasive. You obviously support the ownership of potentially dangerous dogs, but believe in significant restrictions on the ownership of potentially dangerous firearms. The same folks you wouldn't trust with guns would be unlikely to handle animals responsibly. Why should society treat these potential threats differently?

When did CO say he supported the ownership of potentially dangerous dogs?

The pro-gunners were so anxious to use their anaogy that they jumped the gun (pun intended).

The CDC recently listed 10 of the most dangerous breeds:

Pit bulls
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Huskies
Alaskan Malamutes
Doberman Pinschers
Chow Chows
Great Danes
St. Bernards
Akitas

Prima facie, you own assault dogs.

I support renewing and strengthening the ADB.

They just sound dangerous enough to scare away prowlers. But ALL guns are inherently dangerous.

A gun can't bite if it isn't acted upon by an outside force.

...than a sentient being? The gun doesn't shoot anybody until a person aims and pulls the trigger. Dogs, on the other hand, have been known to randomly attack and kill people even after years of docile behavior.

Or do you not get pit bull horror stories where you live?

NO - they used guns.

Please try to stay on topic.

Yea and a number 4 Victor trap doesn't snap until stepped on. Land mines don't go of until triggered. Does that make them less dangerous? Under your definition these are inanimate objects.

...vs. precision-designed machines that only operate when the trigger is pulled. Nice analogy.

All three have triggers.
All three can only go of if the trigger is moved are pulled.
All three can go off accidentally.

...or user error?

A small child puts his hand in the trap.
A small child touches a mine.
A small child pulls the trigger.

Is this what you would call user error?

By "user" I mean the dumbshit who left a loaded gun were a kid could get it.

...is that none of those three objects should be accessible by a small child.

Being locked in a room for a day with a loaded gun or with an unknown 70-pound dog?

...I'd pick the dog.

Being bitten twice from previously friendly dogs and being witness to many dog attacks (long story – different country) I’d strongly suggest the gun. Dogs can be very, very dangerous especially unsupervised.
Like one of those guys used to say: “It’s like walking around with a loaded ‘n cocked AK-47!”
Needles to say I LOVE dogs!

Two dogs, four guns.

I was never asked what types of guns I owned but they did want to know what bread of dogs I might have. It seems that having the wrong dog will prevent you from obtaining homeowners insurance.

especially the dog

My dogs think it's their job to guard the entire neighborhood. Any time they bark, all the neighbors look out - they know that if Peanut and Pearl are barking, there has to be SOMETHING out there.

No one in their right mind would try to break in to any home within my dogs' line of sight.

ON EDIT - We also have an active Neighborhood Watch program in my neighborhood. I've lived here since 1998, and no one has had a break-in during that time.

Nobody with two large barking dogs living outside gets to live in my neighbourhood!

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Only when they see somwone or something they don't recognize. I've asked my neighbors of their barking bothers them - they all said no; if my dogs bark, they just look out to see what they're barking at.

In short, my neighbors get watchdogs they don't have to feed....

:-)

n/t

A variation on that mindless NRA slogan about Ted Kennedy.

I highly recommend a dog for people concerned about security.

That sounds like something kinky!!

:-)

In a life and death situation Gerbils just don't have the same intimidation factor.

I don't want to have to lock this for fear of it becoming some kind of perverted sex thread.

:evilgrin:

perfectly peaceful dog to become and enraged, mauling killer.

:shrug:

is only moments away from turning into a mass murdering psychopath.

One of these days you've got to tell us when and why you've developed this dislike and distrust for law enforcement.

The cops can carry guns and they can't???

Self protection is great!

...are those that carry guns in an alcoholic state.

The "mighty sportsmen" that go hunting with a cooler full of beer.

aren't a problem with you?

I'm not comfortable with ANYONE carrying a concealed weapon. Especially some of the pro-gunners I hear on local talk radio here in Colorado. If anyone every listens to Sean Hannity's radio pukefest, one of our local pro-gunners calls in at least once a week toward the end of Sean's show. He refers to himself as "Ron from Colorado Springs" and the though of this moron having guns truly frightens me.

But last I recall 911 operators dont get paid to fuck up right? Thats why I will keep my gun. I will not trust my life to some Police Acadamy/7-11 wash out.
Phill

The conversation so far:

yes, 911 f*cks up sometimes.
as if a homeowner with a gun never f*cked up....

Yea
But last I recall 911 operators dont get paid to fuck up right?
Thats why I will keep my gun.


So ... are we to understand that you *do* get paid to fuck up?


premise ... conclusion ... unrelated ... does not compute ...

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...than I do in a phone operator making $8.50 an hour. Besides, the average 911 response time is about four minutes. A lot can happen in four minutes.

And that is for an "in progress" call.

In a major city, you can usually count on a response in under five minutes...which is still an eternity.

Major Cities? Don't have 'em. I can only think of two that qualify as "rich." About 6 cities in the state with large professional dept. (over 15)

Like I said, five minutes is an eternity in that situation. For someone who lives out in the sticks, staking your life on a police response simply isn't an option.

...to some yahoo with a gun who wants to play Rambo?

:shrug:

I mean some marginally trained person with a gun who thinks that he can save the world.

i have friends who are volunteers for the ambulance corp and work as 911 dispatchers, you always send the cops on something like that, and if it turns out to be a prank the caller gets arrested

Sheriffs Dept's, and Police Dept's, no longer handle 911 calls in the state of TX. Calls go into a 911 answering service then they are given to the appropriate Dept's. I don't know if this applies to all county's, or if it's based on population. Funding for this is done through your telephone bill, by way of a monthly service fee.

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It's not nice to pick on someone who isn't around.

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Chirp, chirp. God forbid there's an actual situation where a life could have been saved with a gun. That would be way too devastating to the VPC propaganda.