GUNS IN THE NEWS--May 7, 2004

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
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"Prosecutors agreed to leniency for Sean Fitzpatrick, 17, whose misshapen face bears the scars of a police bullet that tore through his left eye socket and palate, leaving him partly blind and unable to speak clearly.
Fitzpatrick pleaded guilty to eight counts of reckless endangerment, and was sentenced to 45 days of electronic home monitoring and 400 hours of community service. He will be on probation until he is 21 and must continue mental health counseling.
Fitzpatrick was 16 when he brought a 9 mm pistol to a Lewis and Clark High School classroom on Sept. 22; he fired a shot into a closet when fellow students did not respond when he asked them to leave. As students and teachers were evacuated from the school, Fitzpatrick briefly talked with officers before raising the gun in their direction.
Officers shot him in the face, stomach and right arm. At his home, investigators found a two-page note indicating the depressed teen planned to commit "suicide by cop." "

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040507/ap_on_re_us/school_shooting_1

Guess which scummy far right wing lobbying group with convicted criminals on its board publishes a gun magazine for kids?

"One student was arrested in Shepherdsville after police say he brought a loaded gun onto a schoolbus and showed it to students.
The seventeen-year-old Riverview High School student is charged with first degree wanton endangerment.
An 18-year-old student is also charged in the case after the stolen gun was apparently handed off to him after the bus incident. "

http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/WHAS11_TOP_studentgun.19a43b319.html

Who is that publishing the gun magazine for kids?

No wonder we can't keep track.

we might hold the initial owner a lot more responsible...

We've had registration of all handguns here in California since 1968, yet handguns are used in crimes just as often here as the nation as a whole.

you've ever said, how about we hold the initial owner of a car responsible for all the tickets subsequent owners recieve?

Are you trying to pretend car titles aren't transferred?

How about we hold gun owners responsible for their lethal toys?

Not former owners.

Another of those "responsible, law abiding gun owners" America doesn't have to worry about, according to the bullets for brains bunch....

"The Rankin man whose gun an 8-year-old Shaffer Primary School pupil took to school last month will appear for a preliminary hearing before District Justice Ross C. Cioppa on June 2.
Devon Allen White, 31, of Third Street, is charged with reckless endangerment in connection with the incident.
Police said that on April 19 the child took the loaded .25-caliber handgun from an unlocked container in a master bedroom closet at White's home, where the boy and other children lived."

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04128/312550.stm

"A ninth-grade student at Perry High School took a loaded handgun to school on Wednesday to help a friend settle a fight with another student.
The ninth-grader who brought the .32-caliber gun and the ninth-grade student to whom he gave it have been charged with several gun charges, according to Pittsburgh Public Schools Police Chief Robert Fadzen. The gun's serial number was scraped off, making it difficult to trace, he said. Both students are 15.
The firearm at Perry was the second brought into a public school this week; on Monday, a 6-year-old student took a loaded 9 mm handgun to Miller Elementary School."

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/04128/312556.stm

Say, isn't there a really scummy and disgraceful right wing lobbying group which publishes a gun magazine for kids?

"Baltimore County police serving a search warrant yesterday morning at a rowhouse in Essex shot a 41-year-old woman after she aimed a handgun - and perhaps fired - at them, authorities said.
The three officers who fired their 40 mm handguns at the woman have been placed on routine administrative leave pending completion of an internal investigation, said police spokesman Bill Toohey, who would not identify the officers.
The woman, who was hit once in the neck, was taken to Maryland Shock Trauma Center with injuries that were not life-threatening, Toohey said. Police declined to identify her or a 49-year-old woman arrested at the duplex until charges against the women have been filed. "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-md.shooting07may07,0,1905433.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

Three trained police officers fire their guns at a single target at close range and only one bullet hits her and in the neck?

I'm glad our cops don't need to carry guns....

so I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of the police. It's entirely possible that the police fired less than 50 rounds while getting their one non-life threatening hit.

What really shocks me is that the house is still standing or that the woman survived the wound to the neck:

"three officers who fired their 40 mm handguns at the woman have been placed on routine administrative leave pending completion of an internal investigation, said police spokesman Bill Toohey, who would not identify the officers."

I think it's quite acceptable to assume at least three shots were fired.

And I also think it quite acceptable to expect a higher than 33% hit rate.

I didn't want to comment on the 40mm error... but that's quite amusing... although irrelevant to the discussion.

From police?

At close range, yes... I don't think that that is extravagent.

police shootings.

<sarcasm>Even trained police can barely manage a 33% hit rate, so let's let untrained loonies wander around with pistols! </sarcasm>

Jackney Sneeb as far as concealed carry went. Make up your mind.

I won't fault the accuracy under that stress.

40 mm is one hell of a potent caliber!

It's an article about guns...no need to be factually accurate, because "most people" don't know the facts anyway.

Most people don't whack off to gun porn on a daily basis...

It's curious that you don't seem to mind bad reporting when the articles are anti-gun. You don't seem to mind when your precious CSGV publishes outright lies like, "The semiautomatic weapons continue firing ammunition automatically once the user squeezes the trigger once and keeps it pressed down."

Like so many of us have observed, facts just don't matter to you. It is truly sad.

Notice a pattern?

Somebody who was pretending he didn't know anything about Trent Lott's disgraceful career is siding with somebody who snivels about poor Pete Coors being picked on and posts shit from right wing cesspools.

And both of them are gun nuts, just like the right wing loonies in the Second Amendment Caucus.

They all have absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

the scum of the earth...

The RKBA crowd has just the nicest playmates....

have any of them introduced legislation to repeal any of the current federal firearm laws yet?

Why don't you write and ask them? I'm sure they'll appreciate hearing from a "fellow intellectual."

It's enough for me to note that they're the scum of the earth and a national disgrace in every way.

What kind of dink sees "The three officers who fired their 40 mm handguns at the woman have been placed on routine administrative leave pending completion of an internal investigation" and reads it as "Xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxx 40 mm handguns xx xxx xxxxx …."

n/t

and there's three to draw to....(snicker)

Because you are posting a story about possible misuse of guns by police, we are taking it to the same logical conclusion that you take all of the other "bad gun" news stories.

being peddled by gun nuts hereabout...

"a story about possible misuse of guns by police,"
Funny, the actual story says she pointed a gun AT the cops, and possibly fired. And it wasn't that long ago the bullets for brains bunch were trying to pass stories like this off as the "defensive use of guns."

"the same logical conclusion "
Yeah, that shit-poor pathology known as gun nut "logic."

And thus the "disarm the police" argument is null and void.

Can't this logic be applied to CCW holders as well? Or are police officers the only people threatened with guns?

"Or are police officers the only people threatened with guns?"
They're about the only people I trust to be carrying guns around, op.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

"Five men were shot - two of them fatally - in two separate incidents in the city last night, police said.
About 10:30 p.m., three men were standing in the 4100 block of Old York Road, near Rose Hill Terrace, when they were shot, reportedly by a man who sped off in a green Ford Expedition, police said.
One man died at the scene, a second was taken to Sinai Hospital and the third, who was shot in a hand, drove himself to Union Memorial Hospital, police said.
Twenty minutes later, two men were standing near Durham and Federal streets in East Baltimore when they were shot by an unknown assailant. "

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-md.shootings07may07,0,6575773.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

"Allegheny County Deputy Coroner Timothy G. Uhrich on Thursday ordered Alvin Starks, of Sheraden, held for trial on a homicide charge related to an alleged kidnapping and car chase on April 18 that resulted in the shooting death of his ex-girlfriend.
District Justice Walter W. Luniewski also ordered Starks to face trial on two counts each of attempted homicide and kidnapping, five counts of aggravated assault, 10 counts of reckless endangering and other charges.
Starks, 30, is accused of abducting Andrea Umphrey, 35, of Sheraden, and their daughter, Aaliyah, 9 months, at gunpoint after allegedly shooting and wounding a parishioner during services at Victorious Faith Evangelistic Outreach Church in Sheraden. Police pursued Starks to the Irwin turnpike exit and back toward Pittsburgh.
Robert M. Hagins, a state police firearms and forensics expert, testified yesterday at a preliminary hearing that the bullet removed from Umphrey was fired from the Kel Tec 9 mm handgun found next to Starks. "

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/news/s_192992.html

CLEVELAND -- Students and faculty at Case Western Reserve University will gather Sunday to remember a campus shooting rampage that happened a year ago.
Norman Wallace, a Youngstown native who was pursuing his master's degree, was killed.
In all, 141 victims were trapped inside the building during the standoff and many officers risked their lives to try to free them. Two others were injured."

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3279396/detail.html

The state of Alabama has finally resolved to report involuntary commitments to the National Instant Check System (NICS) database; something they should have done 10 years ago.

Better late than never, except for those two dead Athens police officers. :eyes:

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/legislature.ssf?/base/news/1083921586160640.xml

"After passing the Senate with strong bipartisan support earlier this session, SB2165 headed to the House for consideration. SB2165 would provide an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates, or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self- defense or defense of another.

"The bill was drafted in response to a home invasion in Wilmette, Ill. during which the homeowner shot and wounded the home invader. Subsequently, the homeowner was arrested and charged with a crime because Wilmette prohibits its residents from owning handguns. The homeowner's arrest sparked nationwide outrage over the fact that a citizen could be arrested for protecting his family from harm....

For full article please see http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=107-05062004

On edit - Sorry, this is old news but I just became aware of it.

"MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Community leaders plan a "thousand-man march" after a bystander was shot and killed in Minneapolis.
A Brooklyn Park man was standing on the front stoop of a house in north Minneapolis when he was killed in a drive-by shooting yesterday afternoon.
Family members identify the victim as Prince Frazier Sr.
Frazier, 53, was a painter and photographer who was to be married in July. He had gone to the neighborhood to take photos of his fiancee's son.
Police say Frazier was not the intended target. No arrests had been made as of last night."

http://www.kstp.com/article/view/142450/

"A West Palm Beach man was recovering in the hospital this morning after being shot in a drive-by shooting near his home Thursday night, police said.
Prince Baldwin of the 900 block of Seventh Street said he was standing on the corner of Eighth Street and Windsor Avenue about 8:20 p.m. when a black four-door Nissan with three people inside pulled up, according to West Palm Beach police spokeswoman Dena Kimberlin.
Baldwin ran but was struck multiple times, Kimberlin said. He was taken to St. Mary's Medical Center. His injuries were not considered life-threatening, she said. "

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/news/feeds/0507shooting.html

"A Columbus convenience store employee is in stable condition at a hospital, after he was shot twice before sunrise.
Robert Marcum, 24, was shot in a 5:09 a.m. robbery at a Chevron station on Macon Road near  Cross-Country Plaza.  Police say Marcum has abdomen and forearm wounds."

http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=1849291&nav=8fapMwA4

More of those gun nuts call "responsible law abiding gun owners" and the rest of the world rightly calls dangerous asswipes.

"AWENDAW, S.C. (AP) - Gunshot holes have been found in everything from picnic tables and signs to pine trees, and foresters warn a free public shooting range in the Francis Marion National Forest will be closed unless the vandalism stops.
"The range gets horrible abuse. It's not a public dumping ground," said Anne Kiser of the U.S. Forest Service. "We're trying to demonstrate to people that this is a facility for the public, but they're responsible whether it stays open or we shut it down."
"I've seen shot-up bowling balls, washing machines, computers, refrigerators, televisions, a box full of records - you name it, it's been shot up down there," said Vernon Parker of Georgetown, a regular at the range and a member of the Palmetto Gun Club.
Kiser said that during an era of tight budgets the Forest Service can't afford to make constant repairs to the shooting ranges, let alone hire guards."

http://www.heraldonline.com/scnews/state_regional_interest/story/3570781p-3172872c.html

Most of the signs and reflectors in our county have damage from gun vandalism. The county can no longer leaves a piece of equipment overnight for fear of gun damage. Mail box's all over the county have bullet holes in them, including mine. The county left a maintainer out over the weekend on a road north of town. When they went back Monday the total estimate of damages was 37000 dollars. All damage was done with 22s.
Understand our county's over 1200sq miles.

replacing and repairing those things...the millions wasted every time a SWAT team has to be called out or a school shut down because the gun industry gets to set public policy.

Bad-mouthing guns and gun owners at every possible opportunity, blaming all gun owners for damage caused by a few irresponsible slobs, does not serve the Democratic Party's interests.

Obviously...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1547604

The silence is deafening sometimes.

But then not only are the gun rights arguments dishonest and idiotic, they're being pushed by some of the scummiest politicans on earth...like the Second Amendment Caucus.

Because, you know...all Democrats want stronger gun control.

Chirp. Chirp.

You mean that idiotic poll that says 86 out of the 44,000 plus members are "less liberal" on gun laws (whatever the fuck THAT means)?

Gee, I'd think the reason why that was worthless horseshit was more than obvious.But if you really need to know, it's worthless horseshit.

(By the way, wonder how many of those 86 were those one-issue trolls that scoot in here from cesspools like highroadrage.com and other gun nut forums?)

Now if you want to talk real polls...here's one that, hilariously, the RKBA crowd posted FIVE times as evidence for their idiotic creed without once ever having read....

--90% of Americans want to close the gun show loophole
--86% want increased penalties for gun trafficking, just like Charles Schumer proposes
--79% want background checks for ALL firearm transactions
--77% want an assault weapons ban....
--67% want ALL firearms registered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=29642

Only 8% of voters believe that the Second Amendment does not protect an individual's right to own a gun - a position many gun owning voters believe belongs to Democrats. 74% take a moderate view of the amendment and believe that the right allows for restrictions that keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 14% are absolutists and believe that the right allows for no restrictions whatsoever.

And this one:

By a margin of 70-20% (77-13% among gun owners), voters prefer a Democratic candidate who supports gun safety over a candidate who supports gun control.

If the Democratic party is conducting this research in an attempt to lure pro-gun voters, doesn't that mean that "all Democrats" don't share your narrow views on the issue?

what do the courts say? After all, that's who decides...not a poll.

"14% are absolutists and believe that the right allows for no restrictions whatsoever."
Wonder how many of those are Democrats...and how many are scummy right wing loonies.

Fuck 'em. Look at the 2000 election...who needs those votes?

And I bet almost all of them want the gun show loophole closed and assault weapons off the market.

"Look at the 2000 election..."
You mean when Charlton Heston called for inbred gun nuts to lynch Al Gore? Yeah, gun owners were a big fucking help that year. It sure was inspiring the way so many "gun owning Democrats" sat with their thumbs up their butt.

""Were it not for your active involvement, it's safe to say my brother would not be president of the United States," the younger Bush said.
"The sound of our guns is the sound of freedom," said Bush, to thunderous applause from the gun group. "

http://goodbyenra.org/xoops/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7

Yeah, that's the gun nuts' version of "freedom"--who cares if votes don't get counted, as long as you've got your popguns.

So tell me again how alienating two-fifths of the party is a good thing.

Tell me, op...how many of them wouldn't know the stentorian was ignorant right wing shit when they saw it? How many of them are pimping for Tom DeLay's legislative priorities?

Lots of Nader supporters believed that in 2000, too.

Just genuine opposition to the schemes of some of the scummiest politicans in America, and a practical regard for public safety. And it's shared by a solid majority of voters, John Kerry and just about every prominent Democrat.

"Lots of Nader supporters believed that in 2000"
Yeah? What did the gun rights crowd believe?

I'll tell you. They pimped for the Chimp then and NOW.

"PITTSBURGH -- A man whose son was killed in the Columbine High School shootings literally walked in his child's shoes to the National Rifle Association convention, where he hoped Vice President Dick Cheney would address the federal assault weapons ban set to expire in September.
Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was killed with an assault weapon in the Littleton, Colo., killings five years ago Tuesday, said continuing the ban is common sense.
Assault weapons "are the weapons of gangs, drug lords and sick people," Mauser said before his three-block march to the convention, which runs through Sunday. "It is a weapon of war and we don't want this war on our streets."
Mauser entered the convention hall where the NRA was meeting, but was turned away by a security guard as several conventioneers applauded. A couple of conventioneers yelled "Get a life" and "Vote for Bush." "

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3015989/detail.html

Less "gun nuts" (your affectionate term for 39% of the Democratic party) would "Pimp for Chimp."

And yeah, "assault weapons" must be the choice of gangs and drug lords...as evidenced by their use in 3% of gun crimes. Hey, I sympathize with Mauser and he didn't deserve the comments flung at him by the NRA members...but he needs to get his fucking facts straight.

Nothing in the AWB (or a "strengthened" version of it) would have prevented his son's death, and that is an unfortunate reality.

Gun nuts is my term for the tiny knot of extremist pieces of shit who peddle dishoenst crap...like the slander of Democrats such as Feinstein.

39% of Democrats own guns...and I'll bet damn few of them want assault weapons on the street, or want criminals waltzing out of gun shows with weapons.

And I'll pay a lot more attention to what Mauser says any day of the week then to what somebody who snivels about Pete Coors has to say....especially since I keep dredging up facts that show what your posts are really "worth."

Dianne Feinstein did carry a handgun when it was not legal for anyone else in San Francisco to do so. And now she vehemently speaks out against concealed carry for the general public.

So for me to point out her total hypocrisy on the issue is not slander.

By the way, Pete Coors still has fucking nothing to do with the conversation. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up.

it seems to be a steady diet for those preaching gun rights.

At least you're consistent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1559005

Jesus, she's not even "highly respected" at DU!

But you can "highly respect" whomever you choose.

By the way, Pete Coors has nothing to do with this discussion. Thought I'd let you know.

DiFi almost lost me completely when she and Louis Freeh co-sponsored a bill that would have outlawed use of strong encryption on Internet transmissions, except those for which the feds had been given a backdoor to decrypt.

She's as pro-police-state as any Democrat has ever been.

:shrug:

Of course, you also thought 85 out of 44,000 was "most."

And Pete Coors has everything to do with this discussion...since he is evidently YOUR model of an ideal public figure.

Can you post a link to help refresh my memory?

Or do you only remember "spray-firing bullet hose" URLs offhand?

if you want to take that poll literally as anything, it could be interpreted as saying that 43,915 out of 44,000 DUers want MORE gun control.

Chirp chirp.

God, guns and guts made America gr--oh my God, he shot himself in the gut!

"PALO PINTO - Donald Wiley, 48, of Arlington, was found dead from a gunshot wound at 10 a.m. Wednesday at his weekend cabin on Devil's Hollow Road.
According to a Palo Pinto County Sheriff's investigator, preliminary indications are that Wiley apparently died from an accidental pistol wound to the stomach. He was found lying face down on top of the weapon."

http://www.mineralwellsindex.com/articles/2004/05/06/news/local_news/news04.txt

It's pretty hard to accidentally shoot yourself in the stomach with a pistol.

I can remember 3 in particular where the individuals shot themselves some where other than the head.
1 in the neck
2 in the chest
don't know why

Accidental vs. suicide = insurance vs. no insurance.

I have not dealt with anyone suicidal who had insurance to worry about, so I do not know if that is a consideration in their planning.

"Riding the bus home from school on Monday, students from two Bullitt County high schools and a middle school watched as a 17-year-old boy showed off a pistol and threatened to kill the driver and some students, according to Shepherdsville police.
On Wednesday, police charged the 17-year-old, who is a student at Riverview High School, with six crimes, including terroristic threatening and possession of a gun on school property.
The name of the student was not released because he is a juvenile. He was arraigned in Bullitt District Court yesterday, but court clerks declined to say how he pleaded. "

http://www.courierjournal.com/localnews/2004/05/07ky/B1-gun05070-5426.html

I wonder which irresponsible and dishonest bunch of right wing loonies publishes a gun magazine for kids?

"A Houston man is fighting for his life Friday morning after he was shot while talking on a pay phone outside a southwest Houston store.
Witnesses told police the man was on the phone around 9:25 p.m. Thursday outside the Sunny's Food Store in the 9000 block of South Dairy Ashford Road in southwest Houston when shots were fired. They said the man dropped to the ground.
An armed suspect was seen leaving the scene on a bicycle going north on Dairy Ashford, according to investigators. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&ncid=320&e=4&u=/ibsys/20040507/lo_kprc/2195517

"New Orleans police are looking for the gunman who fatally shot one person and injured another.
Investigators said the suspect opened fire outside a home in the 5000 block of Henri Drive at about 1 a.m., hitting the victims as they slept in a bedroom.
A 23-year-old man was pronounced dead at the scene. A 20-year-old woman was treated for a graze wound to the head. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=378&ncid=378&e=2&u=/kitv/20040507/lo_wdsu/2195899

"RANDALLSTOWN, Md. -- Baltimore County police told 11 News that officers have responded to a multiple-shooting at Randallstown High School in Baltimore County late Friday afternoon.
A Baltimore County fire captain told WBAL-TV 11 News reporter Noel Tucker that five people were confirmed shot; at least two are in critical condition. Officials would not confirm whether the victims were students, but many witnesses told 11 News that four of the victims transported were teenage students.
SkyTeam 11 reported that police have found the car that witnesses said the gunman used to leave the scene. It was found in the area of Reisterstown Road and Milford Mill. But authorities told 11 News that they haven't found the person who they believe is the suspect -- police believe the suspect is not inside the school."

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/3281137/detail.html

"Baltimore County police said at least five people were shot this afternoon near Randallstown High School.
Two victims suffered life-threatening injuries, two suffered potentially life-threatening injuries and one suffered non-life threatening injuries, said Cpl. John Young, a police dispatcher.
Two of the most seriously injured victims were transported to Maryland Shock Trauma Center. The others were taken to area hospitals, officials said.
The shooting occurred just before 4:30 p.m. Witnesses saw someone leave the scene in a black BMW with tinted glass windows, the dispatcher said.
Police later found a car matching the description and detained a man, a witness told WMAR-TV."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-shooting0507,0,6138657.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

"According to Hopewell police reports, Thursday a student at Carter G. Woodson Middle School was found with a loaded handgun on school property. The offending student was arrested and taken to Crater Regional Juvenile Detention Facility. Felony petitions were obtained against the offending student.
Kristie Moore, a parent of two Woodson students, said just hearing that a student had carried a weapon into school made her nervous.
"I don't mind if parents have guns," Moore said. "Some people hunt, some people collect guns, but kids shouldn't be able to get their hands on them.""

http://www.hopewellnews.com/HOPEWELLNEWS/sites/HOPEWELLNEWS/0618edition/myarticles977041.asp?P=977041&S=585&PubID=15897