The fine line between hatred of Jews and political opposition to Israel

Poll_Blind

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Mon Jun-05-06 04:52 PM
Original message

The fine line between hatred of Jews and political opposition to Israel

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From Chief U.S. Correspondent, Shmuel Rosner of Ha'aretz:

Tuesday morning was a special one for the U.S. State Department's first envoy for monitoring and combating anti-Semitism. Gregg Rickman had only been in the job for a few days, and was already being called on to carry out an important task. If the State Department spokesman was asked during a news briefing about the latest comments by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Rickman was asked, how should the spokesman reply? Rickman came up with the main points of a statement for journalists - a first, modest contribution to this important battle.

--SNIP--

And what about the British academic boycott of Israel: Is that anti-Semitic, or anti-Zionist? Rickman knows that distinguishing between the two, if at all possible, is one of the most complicated problems he will have to face. Rickman wouldn't pick sides, saying he has not yet studied the issue in depth. But there's no doubt he will have to study the issue so he can figure out whether such incidents fall under his purview.

Israel is clearly the biggest obstacle. Where does the line fall between hatred of Jews and political opposition to, or even hatred of, Israel? Rickman knows that in Israeli eyes, the difference is minimal. Everyone is particularly sensitive when they are the ones being criticized, Rickman said, adding that some people consider anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism to be the same thing. He will need to come up with criteria to determine what is permissible and what is forbidden, what is anti-Semitic and what is just political when it comes to Israel.

Anti-semites deserve their own especially-hot place in hell to be sure. But a little birdy tells me this position will quickly become a mouthpiece for the Bush Administration to issue papal bulls on what is and what is not (the the British academic boycott or the boycotts worldwide against Israeli goods because of their public distaste for the United Nations, International Law or basic things like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) anti-Semitic.

This is the next in a series of logical steps to demonize or trivialize nations (even our allies) which disagree with US foreign policy. I'd love to believe that Boosh has the best of intentions, and maybe he does, but his track record implies otherwise.

PB

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SammyBlue

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Mon Jun-05-06 04:58 PM
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1. Being Jewish, I agree.

There is a fine line. Israel's policies may be what you disagree with, but when the media interviews Arabs speaking out against Israel, the translator translates "Jew" as "Israeli." It's nice when you have an Israeli friend that speaks both hebrew and Arabic and knows what the Arabs say.

To them, they are not fighting Israel. . .it is a religious war. Muslims v. Jews. And those who support their position are supporting religious hatred.

I am preparing to be flamed hard.

I support Israel 100%. I was raised a Zionist and a proud Jew. My family fought to make Israel a country and gay Golda Meir loads of money to support the war of Independence in 1948.

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Poll_Blind

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Mon Jun-05-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. No flames here, but a question or two.

When you say "...when the media interviews Arabs speaking out against Israel, the translator translates 'Jew' as 'Israeli.' It's nice when you have an Israeli friend that speaks both hebrew and Arabic and knows what the Arabs say.", can you point to some instances where this has happened to illustrate your point?

When you say "I support Israel 100%", does that always imply support for the actions of the government? I support America 100%. My family fought to keep America Free yet I don't join my love of America with my distaste for our current government. I think the same is applicable to Israel in that a person can support Israel while disagreeing with their current conservative government's policies. Do you agree?

Thank you for your thoughts!

PB

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SammyBlue

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Mon Jun-05-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. In response

I've watched news from the BBC and American news with friends of mine from Israel who speak both langauges. I only go on what they say when they listen to the Arabic and the translations.

Secondly: Support of Israel doesn't mean support of Government. While I agree with most of their policies, I am not blinded to the fact that the Arab countries have just as much of the blame for the "plight of the Palestinians" as Israel. The Palestinians have just as much as Israel.

I will explain:

The refugee camps are in Arab countries. The Palestinians live in poverty there. Why hasn't Jordan, Syria, etc. . .who have these camps worked to empower these people in their country? Simple: They are a convenient distraction: "Look what Israel is doing to the Palestinians." I also believe, through reading books like "The Palestinian Hamas," "For the For Of the Arab Mind," etc. . .that ethnic Arab hatreds also play a part in the disenfranchisement of the Palestinians.

However, the Palestinians are also to blame. School buses, delis, nightclubs, markets and other place the walking bombs have attacked are not military or government targets. When babies die by suicide bombers, I tend to lose my patience.

So, to answer your question, yes. . .things the Israeli government does is wrong. . .but I support Israel and her right to exist 100%!!!

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antonini

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Mon Jun-05-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #1

6. Self Defense is not "religious hatred"

"To them, they are not fighting Israel. . .it is a religious war. Muslims v. Jews. And those who support their position are supporting religious hatred."

Israel�s claim to the land where the Palestinians were living is the belief God gave it to the Jews and today, thousands of years later, this biblical claim trumps anyone else�s. Citizenship is extended to Jews throughout the world while the non-Jewish inhabitants are driven out of the country they were born in.

While the Israeli claim seems frankly religious, it doesn�t follow that opposition to it is also religious. Palestinians who fight against those who took their land are resisting an occupation -- a political right unconnected to religion.

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ixion

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Mon Jun-05-06 05:01 PM
Response to Original message

2. I don't see this fine line...

Edited on Mon Jun-05-06 05:10 PM by ixion

I make a logical distinction between the Jewish religion and Israel.

The term 'anti-semitic' is a hot-button piece of jingoism used by extremists to promote hatred. You shouldn't be 'anti' anything. If people want to be Jewish or Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or Pagan or Satanists, it's really no concern to anyone not involved in that decision.

Israel is a political entity. As a political entity, it is a rogue state and a troublemaker and guilty of war crimes and Crimes Against Humaity, IMO. It reflects poorly on the Jewish people as a whole, just as the fundie xian does here in the US. Not all Christians are bad people, but there are a group of them following something other than what Jesus was talking about.

While every prophet throughout history has had there more aggressive rants, by far and large they preached the same thing: do unto others as you'd have done to yourself; Play nice; be fruitful and multiply.

But I digress.

I guess my point is that comparing Israel and the Jewish religion is an 'apples to oranges' comparison. :-)

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Poll_Blind

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Mon Jun-05-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. Very tough for some to see that, though.

There is much joining or 'conflation' of Israel and Jewishness by Israeli and American conservatives (something I mention fearing in the original article) and I think the Jews (especially those living outside Israel) have been getting the short end of the stick in that deal, especially when conservatives like Sharon and (it appears) Olmert are at the helm. The desire to associate a political party or political facet with an entire nation or even, in this case, religion has (in some cases) benefits but I see far too many drawbacks to make it worthwhile.

In the same way that the conservatives in America wrap themselves in the American flag and Christianity I find it distasteful the way conservatives in Israel wrap themselves in their flag and the Jewish faith- especially when their actions bring little honor to either.

PB

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in_cog_ni_to

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Mon Jun-05-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #2

5. And what are the Palestinians guilty of? Anything?

Do you think if the Palestinians and Hamas stopped blowing up Israelis while they're shopping or eating dinner in a restaurant or taking a bus ride, that PEACE could happen? A 2 State solution? Or is this all Israel's fault, as you insinuated. I didn't read where you think the Palestinians are guilty of anything.:shrug:

Israel is a COUNTRY....not a political entity. Their political parties are different. It is not the Israeli PARTY. Zionism is the creation of an Israeli State.

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