Syria says its air defenses fired at Israeli jets

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/28/israel.soldier/index.html

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Syria said it fired on Israeli warplanes Wednesday as they flew over the home of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, heightening regional tensions over the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier.

Ready, aim (are they gone yet?) FIRE!!!

What a hoot! Those silly arabs trying to not get killed by the mighty IAF. How did that old joke go? Ah yes, Syrian tanks have only one gear: reverse!

Do you think it appropriate for the Israelis to commit an act of war here?

Considering the fact that Syria is where Mashaal is calling the shots from, yes.
In addition it's a warning to Syria not to attack from the north.

So you think that Israel should commit acts of war against its neighbors whenever it doesn't like what the occupied territories are up to? Should other nations also routinely commit acts of war like this when they are displeased by events? Do you think that bullying behavior is going to lead to peace in the mid east? The Canadians are a bit upset with us over trade negotiation issues, would it be alright with you if they flew some of their jets over the whitehouse? We tried to overthrow the elected government of Venezuela, should they respond with a mock bombing run on the pentagon? Or is bullying behavior only appropriate for those who can get away with it?

As long as the head of Hamas' military wing is in Syria, yes.
Do you think Assad really wants to be involved in this?
Perhaps Assad could have alittle face time with Mashaal and explain how things work.

Israel has diplomatic channels for communicating with Syria. Acting like an arrogant bully generally has negative consequences. But once again, as you find this behavior appropriate for Israel, do you support this type of behavior in general for all nations?

Look, if Canada was harboring Osama bin Laden (as an example), and permitted him to orchestrate attacks on Americans from his base in Ottowa...the Prime Minister would be wise to move to his bomb shelter.

Not all nations are being attacked daily by their neighbors. Actually, not many are.

Israel is attacking Gaza daily and the residents of Gaza are attacking Israel daily. Trying to get Syria mixed up in this mess seems to be a bit stupid to me.

That's right! Gazans have been attacking Israel daily. Mashaal is calling the shots from Damascus

By harboring Mashaal, Syria is already deep into it. I'm certain Assad would rather have him living elsewhere at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3563635.stm

Do you think that the Gazans will just give up and be obedient prisoners in the vast gaza internment camp if Mashaal were to vanish?

No not likely that the Gazans will change their ways. Despite having control over Gaza for a year, all they've managed to do is manufacture missiles to fire at Israel.

They're currrently prisoners of their own making. In response to negotiation for the return of the POW, they've apparently kidnappped two other Israelis.

Mashaal need not vanish. But, he could have a few words with his friends in Gaza.

nt

There are apparrently some who feel that the Israelis are just supposed to let all these things happen to them and go thru 'diplomatic channels' to 'protest'.
Meanwhile, kidnappings, rocket lauchings, terrorist bombings in schools - which differ greatly from civilians dying when used as human shields by the rocket-launching-Gazan crowd - are all part of the scene? I think not.

Let's say that you walk up to the linebacker on your college football team and sucker punch...his GIRLFRIEND in the face. After he beats the living crap out of you, you go to the University committee and explain that you were highly resentful of his success with women and other lofty ideals, and decided to bring him down a peg or two. Of course, you didn't hit him - you hit her, so he had no reasonable motive to whup your sorry ass. You want him kicked out of school, you don't care where he goes, so you and other losers can populate the University. You rally all the other zeros in the school to join you since you're taking a stand for 'them'. Of course, none of them are stupid enough to pick a fight with a guy that size but you are, so they encourage you to do it again and again and again. The guy has some restraint so he doesn't kill you because he, unlike you, has a a three-digit I.Q. and doesnt' want to go to jail. And it just goes on and on.

Then one morning you wake up and realize that you've been used by everyone else and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Where have I heard this story before?

but I will give you points for creativity and humor.

"...go to the University committee and explain that you were highly resentful of his success with women and other lofty ideals, and decided to bring him down a peg or two."

Now this does not really reflect the breadth and depth of the I/P conflict, not even close.

"...so you and other losers can populate the University. You rally all the other zeros in the school to join you since you're taking a stand for 'them'. Of course, none of them are stupid enough to pick a fight with a guy that size but you are, so they encourage you to do it again and again and again."

Not a fair or honest characterization alluding to Pals as "losers" and "zeros".

Most of these internecine conflicts need to be humanized.

From Day 1 in 1948, the Israelis have been victimized by a constant state of war - the Arab dive bombers began immediately to strafe inhabitants of villages and cities. Arab citizens who believed that the Jews would be exterminated left in order to not be around for the decimation which was to have occurred.

Fool me once...as * once said...

I can only imagine if the US citizenry were subjected to 58 years of warfare, fully capable of annihilating the enemy in toto...and DIDN'T do it. There'd be lynch mobs on the Capitol grounds. I am almost willing to guarantee that the Israelis are the only people in the world who would not have launched an obliterative strike on these Capital cities and their peoples. Look what we did to Baghdad and the other major cities in Iraq. Years later and these folks don't even have regular utilities or potable drinking water half othe time. The Israelis never did that and won't do it. They're sending a message of deterrence to these folks in Syria. They didn't bomb his palace, for crying out loud. If they'd wanted to, they would have - that's the point. Where else do you see that kind of restraint?

You say that the occupation is illegal? Many would disagree with that if it were any country other than Israel. Care to give your homestead back to the Native Americans? No, why not - they were certainly here before you were. Further, the Jews have been living in Israel since time immemorial. where is their right to live in peace?

Funny thing about all this is that if the Jews had taken Uganda instead of Palestine...the exact same thing would have happened - everybody'd be showing up to reclaim it once it had been turned into the new land of milk and honey. I daresay that the Swedes themselves would have laid claim to that part of Africa...something about their progenitors and all that. The planets Venus and Mars too...but that's a story for another day.

that need to be resolved through negotiations. I agree that Israel is usually held to different standards than other countries, but that is another issue.

what do you mean that that's 'another issue'?

Sure they have legitimate grievances...let them start with their leadership....like we do here at DU, right? We have grievances with the pesent Admin. in DC, so we air them and vote and do whatever makes sense within the law to change the government. We are still a people of laws.

Now, let's go back to my terrible analogy with the football player. Not only does he get to watch his girlfriend puched in the face, but because he's a member of the football team, we're gonna hold him to a higher standard and say that he's not even allowed to push the offender away. He has to go ask the people over in the marching band if they would ask their trombonist to stop punching his girlfriend. They actually think it's rather funny, so they say, no we won't. You football guys are too pushy around here anyway..so tough noogies.

It isn't another issue it's the same issue. We hold them to a higher standard becasue the world likes to see Jews get massacred? Is that the standard? Please enlighten me as to why it is another issue. I'm not too bright, so I don't see it...

in your analogy. Israel must base it's actions on what is right and fair, and not let unfair treatment by others affect her own actions.

edit: I never said anything about the occupation btw.

I really support Israel, but hope all this stuff doesn't escalate. Buzzing Syria, being shot at, invading Gaza after a (sadly) routine kidnapping of two people, Israelis capturing government leaders, Hamas claiming they shot a chemical weapon, and the whole Iran thing too. About time, my natural response. The Arabs have been asking for it. But still, I don't want to see the Arabs get beat up again. Israel would win again, but war is by no means a happy affair. Might knock some sense into the Arabs, but probably not. They lose over and over and never learn.


I wish Israel would either do a devastating attack that would cause the Arabs to NEVER attack Israel again, or completely work for peace. None of this half-way stuff, "Peace. get attacked. War! Win. Peace. get attacked. War! Win. Continue Process over and over"

This may very well mean that the national aspirations of the "palestinians" will NEVER be realized.

Perhaps Egypt will donate a piece of the Negev for some new digs for Hamas.

It is amazing how badly the Palestinians are petitioning for statehood. If they acted as model people, were peaceful, and worked to better their areas, they would have a pretty good chance of statehood. As it is now, they're just asking for retribution. It seems like their plan is trying to get a nation very angry. The nation beats them up. Then they take the stance of a poor, aggrieved, victim. And, sadly, it seems to be working.

BTW-How come people support the Palestinians, who commit such heinous crimes and are much crazier fundamentalists than Bush, yet they don't support the other groups? Tibet for example is a relatively peaceful place under rule from a much more brutal government. The Kurds were very brutally killed and aggrieved. other groups are much better behaved and brutally oppressed, yet still the Palestinians are given the lion's share of the publicity and support. ???

The reason is glaringly obvious, but it's not permissible to say it here.

You're right about Kurdistan. It's been occupied territory for a very long time. Since the end of WWI it has mostly been occupied (in many cases brutally) by Arab nations. But that fact needs to be ignored.

I've alwazys been in favor of a two state solution, but you can't dance the Tango without a partner.
There are many here will say that it's Israel's fault, but look at the intifadah; Arafat walked out on Clinton and his counter offer to Barak was 6 years of war.

If Palestinians stopped resisting, the Israeli juggernaut would not stop, in fact it would make their job easier, more compliant prisoners to load onto the trains going "east". They won't stop until Palestinians either leave or die, until the whole region is "arabrein". Look at Baruch Golstein and Maer Kahane. What Israel is doing makes them proud. They are not interested in peace with the arabs, except the peace where arabs stop breathing. It's just like what we did with the Native Americans, only with better weapons. Deny it if you like, you know its true.

that was a "people uprising" using protests rocks and tires....no guns. That led to israel pulling out, and the oslo process...and they had the lsraeli left on their side and much of the middle.....

and then came intifada II.....dumb dumb and dumber....by attacking/killing the families of the israeli left, (and right and middle) they not just lost the israeli left support, they completely destroyed it.

when they protested in a relativly non violent method that threatened no one but the IDF, they got a lot...then they pulled out the guns, and lost more and made their lives even more miserable...dumb dumb dumb

_______

and of course we love the genocide accusation....care to detal it with some numbers?...

No, it's not true. Goldstein is only held as a "hero" by a small group of nuts.
If genocide is Israel's goal, they're doing a lousy job. The 4th highest population growth rate in the world is in Gaza.
http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/population_growth_0.html