The Palestinian narrative is here to stay

Rami G. Khouri, The Daily Star, May 14, 2008


That both Israeli independence and the Palestinian catastrophe, or nakba, of 1948 are now acknowledged virtually simultaneously around the world is a great achievement for the Palestinians, just as the creation of Israel was a miracle in the eyes of the world's Jews.

The two big stories 60 years later are the strength and vitality of the Israeli state and the depth, vigor and relentless quest for life, land and liberty of the Palestinian people.

Both peoples are almost equally matched in numbers - about 7 million each - and in our indomitable spirit. We are both attached to the same land, for which we fight passionately, each having resorted to militancy - heroism in their own eyes - and terrorism in the eyes of the other.

We have both suffered exile and disenfranchisement - from Babylon to Burj al-Barajneh - along with death, despair and denial. We each know what it means to be scapegoated, caricatured and abused. And we both entered the 21st century with widespread international recognition and support.

The parallels between Palestinians and Israelis are so deep that they are scary. The main difference is that Israel has a sovereign state and the Palestinians continue to suffer statelessness, dispersal, occupation and exile.

This is not an eternal fate, though. I am certain the Palestinians will have their state one day soon, for three basic reasons: They deserve one by any moral standards; they are allocated one by prevailing global legal standards; and they insist on making statehood happen through their own dogged determination and persistence.

For 60 years, many Israelis and their friends abroad have tried to disqualify the Palestinians from people-hood and statehood. They have used every trick in the book to make us disappear, without success. They called us communists, rejectionists, terrorists, a fabricated community, evil anti-Semites, Nazi sympathizers, lazy international parasites, and many other terrible things.

Yet the Palestinians never disappeared or were disqualified from achieving their national rights, because collectively they never embraced evil, but only hope, humanity and an end to exile.

read on...
http://imeu.net/news/article008730.shtml

the hate. Your children will thank you for it.

the negotiations Clinton had left between the Israelis and the Palestinians fell completely apart

The U.S. under bush provided no leadership, and in fact discouraged negotiations

The same thing occurred with the sunshine talks with North and South Korea

unfortunately, the past 8 years brought us bush and the neocons

That should change with a new Democratic administration, or at least that hope that it will

in 1948. The Palestinians, along with their pals, thought they could get it all and lost huge. They've lived in misery ever since.

B'Tselem Statistics Fatalities

It will continue until both sides stop, or everyone is dead.

when Arabs accept that , we will inch a little closer towards peace

no mater how much Israel will not admit that and keeps shrilly shrieking "BUT THEIR CHARTER SAYS" or having their well organized web minions do it for them.
The barely hidden narative is the fact that Israel wants the Jordan River aquifer and will do anything to keep it.

believe be , the Arab street is still a loooong way from accepting Jews in their midst.

we will be a little closer to peace.

But Arabs are still mostly still very conservative , and I always perceived while living in the Arab world for 24 years that the MAJORITY want ALL of historical Palestine/Israel . not just the 1967 lands, that is a fact we need to factor in

or a majority of Palestinians? You say you are Arab, 5that could mean anything from Palestinian to Iraqi to Arab Jew and anything in between, with getting too nosy are you Palestinian?

Good to see you here. It's always nice when we have someone who's actually lived (or still lives) there posting their opinion and experiences.

welcome.

why is it that you do not?

As well as pelsar. When have I ever insinuated otherwise?

and while Syria and Israel are officially at war, who has been doing the attacking of late? Assad showed remarkable and wise restraint last fall after Israel bombed what ever it was that they blew up. Not to mention that Syria has been "cleaning up" our (the US's) mess for a while now in the form of absorbing 1.5 million refugees from Iraq.
What really matters here is not what Arabs in general think, but what Palestinians think and do. Yes there are militants who do want Israels destruction, but more realistically there are far more that while they may never love Israel and if they had "druthers" would wish that Israel did not exist, they also accept that it does, these are the people that must count, these are the ones who want lives, I do not believe they are some rare "good" Palestinians. To make the decisions concerning the future of a Palestinian State with what Arabs in general think or any threat to Israel is exactly what has kept the status quo for decades and will continue to in the future.

just as in iran i'm sure most dont really want to live under a theocracy ...or those living under the taliban...the only minor problem with living under a dictatorship is that the "peoples voice" is not always heard....

so whereas it might be nice to say the "Palestinians" want peace, live next to israel etc....Its the voice of Hamas that really counts (as far as gaza is concerned)....and they have a very different view...as they shoot missiles daily into israel

that is the realism that has to be accepted

First off, I think this is hysterical.

Assad showed remarkable and wise restraint last fall after Israel bombed what ever it was that they blew up.

Yeah, he showed wisdom and restraint. Suuuure. That was what he showed. He's a very thoughtful leader, in fact he seems to show restraint in most every situation. Not that I mind, I just think it's funny that you think it is evidence of his "wisdom."

To make the decisions concerning the future of a Palestinian State with what Arabs in general think or any threat to Israel is exactly what has kept the status quo for decades and will continue to in the future.

It's simple really. Israel forms decisions based primarily on what Palestine's elected leaders and non-elected strongmen say and do. Notice Israel's willingness to negotiate and work with Abbas as opposed to their policy towards Hamas. You talk about "militants" as though Hamas were a small, marginalized group instead of acknowledging the reality of the situation. Hamas is the elected government who pulled off a total coup in Gaza, relegating Fatah entirely to the west bank. They are powerful, ruthless and are now the sole governing force in Gaza. Just as the US forms its German policy based on what Germany's government does, I think it is pretty standard for Israel to form their policy on Gaza based on what Gaza's government says and does. This is especially true since they are attacking Israel daily with increasingly sophisticated weapons while swearing repeatedly to its eventual destruction.

Just what was Assad showing? Stupidity, cowardice, what? Would his counter attacking Israel have brought any good to either Israel or Syria? So was it unwise not to attack?

as to your other point, perhaps you should read the comment I was replying to for context.

He is considered by most to be a weak leader. He has managed to lose the authority and influence that his father spent a lifetime building in a matter of a few short years. Obviously I'm talking about Lebanon in particular, but in general he hasn't shown himself to be an especially strong, wise or even intelligent leader in any matter. His father had the cojones to take power via a coup and he held onto it with a ruthlessness that was surprising even in the Middle East. Look up Hama for instance. His son, on the other hand, grew up in comfort and was handed this job.

Don't take this to mean that I admire Assad Sr. or support any of his policies or actions. Or that I think Jr. should have responded and attacked Israel. I am happy he neglected to respond militarily. I just think it is a mistake to attribute wisdom to his decision merely because I happen to agree with it. The truth of the matter, that he is a weak leader, is not a criticism. Just a statement of fact. I'd rather have a weak Jr. than a heartless Sr. (or a psychopathic Uday or Qsay, God forbid.) Hopefully his weakness won't cause serious problems in the future and it will continue to benefit the West and Israel.

as to your other point, perhaps you should read the comment I was replying to for context.

point taken.

there was a poll and statistics just recently.

While their lives get increasingly miserable, they still prefer violence and terrorism to trying to improve their situation.

If the terrorism stopped, if they stopped that as their national goal, their lives would immediately improve.

PERPETRATE violence against Palestinians?

Sinai Israel left under a brokered peace deal with Egypt that holds to this day, it should also be noted that the PM who signed this deal was later assassinated by an Israeli right winger.

Gaza- yep Israel left at least most of time, however it promptly laid siege and uses its supposed "humanitarian" shipments although some is prescribed by both Oslo and the "Roadmap" proIsraeli commenter's here have declared that null and void, as leverage and a means of punishment

Lebanon-Israel left because the cost of staying was too high, this was true of both invasions.

Settlements-settlements where? Gaza yeah but they were replaced in the OPT and on those get back to me when Israel stops building.

so whats the problem with the peace with egypt?...should it be reverted back to a war state?
should israel return to lebanon?
should israel return to gaza?
___

the fact is those events happened....when others as in yourself said they never would for a whole bunch of reasons-but they did.


btw there was no 'replacement' of settlements in the westbank...there was in fact no change at all in their expansion (that is the excuse given for the gaza withdrawl for those who have to blame israel for doing what is requested of it and when the Palestenain reaction is the one they didnt expect and ruined their "mantra'.....)

_____

If Israels right wing had its way I do not think there ever would have been a peace treaty with Egypt, IMHO they would have preferred a promise of backing from the US in another war, but that did not happen.

oh yeah when did I say Israel would not leave Lebanon?

OK so the OPT settlements are not replacements they're just, you claim there has been no change in expansion of settlements, others claim there has been, regardless there has not been a slowdown and the expansion has not stopped.

People such as me? egads dude

and suffer the consequences.

No country in history has "given back" land gained in war or conquest.

Had the arabs not started a war in 1967, there would be no occupation or settlement expansion in the WB (except, of course, Jordan was occupying and not allowing rights or citizenship to the Palestinians either).

The settlements would not be there,but for the bad choices of the Palestinians.

They now will get no more than half the land they could have had 60 years ago.

They lost that chance, because they wanted all the land.

They still want all the land, but that isn't happening.

The reality is that the Palestinians better get their act together, or they will have even less land than that, if they ever stop their violence to seek statehood.

He died peacefully in 1992.

I was thinking Yizhak Rabin

it becomes a launching ground for terrorists attacks? Palestinians need a major attitude adjustment before any more leaving takes place. As UndertheOcean says, the majority of arabs want it all.

Senior Hamas member Mahmoud al-Zahar spoke Wednesday at a Gaza Strip event marking the 60th anniversary of the Nakba – the anniversary of the 1948 events which led to the induction of the State of Israel – and promised his listeners that "the right of return is closer than ever."

The events of the Gaza pullout and the Second Lebanon War, he added, proved that the Israeli military is not beyond defeat.

"The Palestinians and the Arabs have crushed the Jews' assumption of supremacy… The Zionist legend of invincibility has been destroyed.

"Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel… We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine's territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists. To them I say – you will lose. You will leave and we will keep hounding you. The blood of our slain sons will haunt you forever," he said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3543208,00.html

It's the constant assertions that they won't, as admitted constantly by Hamas, their elected government. It's the recent poll saying that 50% of Palestinians support rocket attacks against Israeli cities. (re: civilians.) You base an opinion on assumptions. I'm basing mine on their current words and actions. What else is needed to believe them?

show a majority of Israeli Jews want Israeli Arabs expelled should we make assumtions there too, after all.......

that they are not being expelled now but the Palestinians are shooting rockets and suicide bombing so there is no equivilence.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!