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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:36 PM
Original message
Doctor killed as he helps wounded
Doctor Zain Shahin's first reaction to the Israeli air strike on Monday near the clinic where he worked was to rush out to treat the wounded.


It cost him his life.

Witnesses said the Palestinian doctor rushed to help the wounded lying around a car struck by a missile.

But he himself was hit by shrapnel when a second missile slammed into a crowd of people who had also come to see who they could save.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/888329B4-386A-451B-8685-50D0B3F5386B.htm
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Water has been cut off to Jenin

None of the CrusadeMedia have echoed the story, so it is only available on sites that are not approved by the bush regime, and forbidden here, but those interested should be able to find it. :)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. well isn`t that nice
"slammed into a crowd of people who had also come to see who they could help"....oh never mind,i`ll just get into trouble....
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Israeli TV Report: None Of Dead In Camp Strike Were Militants


four schoolchildren were wounded and a doctor treating victims of an earlier strike was killed.

Israel's Channel 10 TV said none of the dead were militants and called the refugee camp strike a "mistake."

The aircraft also hit a suspected Hamas weapons

http://www.click10.com/news/2568025/detail.html
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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wonder if the western media will echo their Israeli doctor coverage?
Much wailing and gnashing of teeth about him (rightly of course).

Somehow I doubt it.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I would not advise postponing respiration in anticipation of it

CNN, in fact, is not even reporting that there were no militants killed, which even Israeli TV is doing!
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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yeah as usual the non-westernised Israelis are more honest
The word "civilian" does not appear in the reports of CNN/BBC/Ha'aretz.

Yediot Aharonot puts it on the front page. :eyes:

Also, check this caption out:

"Israel has a heavy army presence in the West Bank"

What the fuck? Next the US will have a "heavy army presence" in Eye-Raq.

:dunce:
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ah, the humane tactics of the IDF!
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. "The most moral army in the world."
Sort of my point in the other thread.
Not amount of talk about morality and justifications
fixes the fact you killed a child for nothing.
If you have any real moral nerve at all, you face it
and try to do better, you don't make excuses.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's a good point...
Edited on Mon Oct-20-03 08:20 PM by Darranar
excusing the deaths of innocent people doesn't accomplish anything.

The time spent producing propaganda to excuse it would be better spent preventing it a second time.

But I think we both know that the chance of anyone with much power consistently following your advice is one in a million.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Morality is not a public relations tool.
It is not a convenience. Excusing deaths of innocents might
accomplish something, it's a fairly widespread activity, but
that has nothing to do with morality, it has to do with public
relations and propaganda and such. Morality says killing innocent
children is an evil act. Pretty rigid stuff.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Israelis believe in their mantras, i.e., "the most moral army in the world
as we do in ours, i.e., "the leader of the free world."

Self-delusion is a national pastime in both countries.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. They are popular most everywhere.
Helps protect one from inconvenient thoughts.

My fav. US one is "the land of the free", whereas many foreign
lands allow far more personal freedom than in the US. The freedom
the US provides is mostly economic, i.e. the right to get rich at
the expense of ones fellow humans. For this we pay with byzantine
regulation of our personal lives and stultifyingly uniform commercial
driven "entertainment".
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Resistance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. let's be honest
Dr. Shahin was killed by terrorists. The IDF are every bit as much a terrorist organization as Hamas is.
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yotam Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Riiiiiiiight..
we all know targeting terrorists, missing & killing innocents is morally the same as specifically targeting innocent civilians.
Your point = :puke:
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Give me a break
Edited on Tue Oct-21-03 01:09 PM by bluesoul
Let's see dropping a bomb or rocket on a higly populated civilian area knowing there are civilians - children and others non militants, yep that's pretty much the same. Your point is nuthin' but :puke:
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yotam Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. From what I've read & heard IDF takes measures to avoid
civilian deaths - but it is not always possible and it isn't an exact science anyway. I stand by my point that to compare Hamas (basically a bunch of literally fanatic murderers) and IDF is misleading (to say the least). For that matter do you believe US bombing in Baghdad is the same as Hamas? Also I want to add that I am in no way condoning killing any innocents - but that should be obvious.
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Sesquipedalian Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. of course there is a difference
when Israel fired the second missle into the crowd that gathered at the burning car it was a "mistake", just like it's a mistake when Hamas rigs extra bombs to try and take out the rescue crew :eyes:
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Nice try
Condoning, justifying, looking for excuses, it makes no difference to me. Those people (civilians) are dead. And Israel/IDF is responsible for those deaths and no one else!
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Sesquipedalian Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. If you believe all that crap..
I don't think they have any clue what they are attacking with the helicopters and furthermore don't care.
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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Damn, you're to the right of some in the Israeli government!
Weird. :eyes:
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Resistence...I beg differ....
Dr. Shahin was killed by terrorists. The IDF are every bit as much a terrorist organization as Hamas is.

Please note:

Dr. Shahin was killed by terrorists. The IOF are every bit as much a terrorist organization as Hamas is.

Now you have it.....

:toast:
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. and now they're raiding al-Jazeera's Ramallah office
Edited on Tue Oct-21-03 12:09 PM by Aidoneus
capping off a banner 24hrs.. that IDF shows great restraint, bravely defending themselves against a doctor, schoolkids, journalists.. :eyes:
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Don't forget Peace Activists and UN Relief Workers....
:eyes:
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
24. Has a credible news source
confirmed this story?
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. it was a Reuters report
and indeed was picked up elsewhere.

I realize that it's a mark of status and a cliche to spit on al-Jazeera, but at least do the homework first.
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Herschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. So it is
Still, the al-Jazeera label inspires little confidence.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. No, only Al Jaz, AP and Israeli TV Channel 10

Neither the Pentagon or the IDF have confirmed it, so you will probably be more comfortable if you just keep insisting that it is nothing but propaganda lies by terrorist appeasers who must be rooted out of their caves and brought to justice inside the World's Largest Concentration Camp in order to defend the McDonnell Douglas company from brutal senseless acts of production cutbacks and protect 22 and climbing % of the population of Israel from adequate food supplies.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Has al-Jazeera EVER gotten anything wrong?
When one of their reports about an incident a day or so after it happened is proven to be wrong and appears to have been an intentional error, start whining. Not until then.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The fact that they have been bombed twice, and their people murdered

and maimed, and most recently, their prize reporter seized by the regime's hired thugs in Spain, where he and "several of his friends" are being "intensively interrogated," a practice for which Spain has long been well-known, is a better testament to their credibility than about anything else I can think of.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-03 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Independent: Civilians pay with lives under Gaza's skies of death
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=455857

When Dr Zein al-Abedin Shahin heard the first missile hit, he immediately ran to help the wounded.

Outside the clinic where he was working late, on Abu Bakr al-Siddiq street, he found 12-year-old Mohammed al-Barood lying injured.

According to colleagues at the clinic who rushed out after him, Dr Shahin was holding the boy in his arms when the second missile hit. Both doctor and child were killed in Monday night's attack, the fifth Israeli air strike in Gaza in 24 hours and the most devastating in terms of civilian casualties.

A piece of shrapnel pierced Mohammed's heart.

more...
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. what!? no photos on the front page of the Wash. Post?
Innocents being killed?

Funny - photos of the Israeli bus bombing were all over the front page a little while ago?

What - are innocent Palestinian children not worth the same?

GRRHHHH! x(
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-03 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. Move along, folks...
Haven't you gotten the memo from reading one or two other threads in here today? The IDF has explained it all, and because they NEVER lie about anything, who are we to doubt them? There was no Palestinian doctor killed. In fact he probably never even existed in the first place, but is a clever ploy from every habitually lying Palestinian witness who saw his death to try to make the IDF look bad. If he did exist, he was a terrorist. Same goes for that 11-year old boy. Haven't you seen the video? Me, I've got no idea why anyone would be wondering what the hell's on the last ten minutes of the tape that the IDF isn't willing to release. Blind faith in the IDF is the path we should tread. Any independent thinking about matters like the IDF acting out of self-interest rather than pure honesty in its statements on this thing must be left at the door. Thanks for yr time...

Violet...
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