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Watchdog group says anti-Semitism skyrocketing in Belgium

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:12 AM
Original message
Watchdog group says anti-Semitism skyrocketing in Belgium
Anti-Semitic attacks have skyrocketed in Belgium in 2009, according to a local government watchdog. The agency's director compared the hike to "the anti-Muslim hate campaign after 9/11."

The Centre for Equal Opportunities and Opposition to Racism last week said that the number of anti-Semitic incidents in the first four months of 2009 has equaled the number of such incidents recorded in the whole of 2008.

According to Jozef De Witte, director of the government agency, which is under the direct responsibility of Belgium's prime minister, the hike owes to the Middle East conflict between Israel and some of its enemies.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1084452.html
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Zzzzzzzz
Edited on Sun May-10-09 12:26 PM by IndianaGreen
Hate to harp on it again, but what is the relationship between Israel's Occupation and Gaza invasion and the rise in anti-Semitism?

America's invasion of Iraq was a boost to Al-Qaeda recruitment. Israel is just another country, there is no such thing as Israeli Exceptionalism anymore than there is an American one, so when countries do bad things, they should expect similar consequences.

I will worry about Belgium when I see some empathy on the pro-Israel side for the plight of Palestinians.

:boring:
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So Jew hate is quite ok with you as long as
there's a good reason for it.

Gotcha. Not surprised either.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, those are your own words, not mine.
How sad that you sound like gabbyspoopy.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You ask a great question
What is the relationship? Why do people attack Jewish institutions in Belgium as a response to the Israel/Gaza conflict?
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well if you look at Indiana's reply to LB, his angle
is clear...Jews everywhere wear the brunt of Jews in Isreal actions. We have seen this concept before and 6 million died. And he, like most of the world at that time, is not inclined to worry about it...in fact it bores him...zzzzzzzz.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Interesting way to twist and pervert one's words
but then, not surprising considering the source.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Can you respond in your own words?
Why are Jewish institutions in Belgium attacked in protest of the conflict in Gaza?

For instance, when the fighting in Gaza started, a Molotov cocktail and a rock were hurled at a synagogue in Charlois and caused damage.

What is the relationship between a synagogue in Charlois and the actions of the Israeli government?

Do you consider those actions in Belgium to be an understandable response to the Israeli incursion into Gaza?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Read post 6
That is all!
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Could you please tell me...
just WHAT Belgian Jews have done to harm Palestinians?

Supposing someone said, "I will worry about attacks on Muslims in Europe when I see more Muslims denounce 9-11" - you would rightly call them a right-winger and a bigot. What is different about your attitude?

And if you've read my posts carefully I am totally against most recent Israeli actions toward Palestinians, especially the bombardment of Gaza. I am against all exceptionalism related to Israel - for AND against. And Israel is just another country, but so is Belgium and what happens in one does not justify what happens in the other!

God, if I wanted to deal with this sort of pro-collective-punishment attitude, I'd go on FreeRepublic.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The Jews of the Diaspora are the ones to bear the brunt of blowback for Israel's actions
just like the victims of the 9-11 attacks paid with their lives for the follies of American foreign policy, particularly our support during the Afghan-Soviet War of the same folks that gave rise to the Taleban and provided comfort to Al-Qaeda.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Taking note of a causative or instrumental effect is not the same thing as approval of it.
Edited on Sun May-10-09 05:33 PM by bemildred
If you step off a ledge you will fall. Stating that does not mean you approve or disapprove of gravity. Your opinions are irrelevant. The question is whether the stated correlation exists. People here in the USA were raked over the coals for mentioning that al Qaeda did not go to all that trouble to destroy the WTC out of some particular ideology, they were pissed about particular things the US government did and was doing. Noticing that that was so does not mean you approve of al Qaeda. The Israeli government has to know perfectly well that actions like the Gaza campaign will lead to a rise in anti-semitic incidents elsewhere, and it thinks it is "worth it".
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. But why would they?
You wrote that: "actions like the Gaza campaign will lead to a rise in anti-semitic incidents elsewhere"

But why would that be the case?

There is a cause and effect relationship between stepping off a ledge and falling.

There is, however, no relationship between the Gaza campaign and a synagogue in Belgium.

Any person who is angry with Israel as a result of the Gaza campaign (or for any other reason) ought to take out that anger via acts of protest against the Israeli government, not by throwing molotov cocktails at synagogues.

The actions of Israel do not need inevitably to lead to attacks against Jews.

What I think we ought to be saying is not "the actions of Israel is bound to lead to this sort of thing" but rather let us combat the ignorance that allows people to frequently make this faulty connection between Jews around the world and the Israeli government.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Why is there gravity?
I'm not saying it is not anti-semitic, so I don't have to explain why it is not anti-semitic. I'm not saying that it's rational, so I don't have to explain why it is rational. I'm just saying that it is predictable. Do you deny that it is predictable, to be expected? "Who could have predicted this?" Is that your position?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. My position is that it should be dealt with
Edited on Sun May-10-09 06:09 PM by oberliner
I think there are some folks out there who make it their business to deliberately link anti-Israel sentiments with anti-semitism, intermingling criticism of Israel with paranoid ideas about Jewish people generally.

I think there ought to be more folks, especially those who are the most vocal critics of Israeli policy, pointing out the falsity of these ideas and working to ensure that such nonsense does not gain traction.

Edit to add: I'm hopeful this would result in fewer attacks of the nature described. Certainly it is a more responsible approach then saying oh well, this is bound to happen.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Me too, and good for you.
Edited on Sun May-10-09 07:00 PM by bemildred
I'm glad to hear that you are not asserting that a rise in anti-semitic incidents in response to actions like Gaza is a strange and unpredictable thing. It is my view that fewer military actions like Gaza is likely to result in fewer bigoted, irrational, and anti-semitic attacks of this kind. This is not to be construed as any defense on my part of such attacks, mind you. I think people in general are irrational, bigoted and xenophobic, they have those tendencies, they can be expected to react that way. But what do I know?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. You are right in a sense; but there are many things that people often do...
that are wrong, dangerous and irrational and we have to find some way of dealing with them rather than just accepting that it will happen.

People do steal, bully, murder. A few people (psychopaths) will do these things readily; many will do so under the right, or rather wrong, circumstances. Even self-interest is not always required. The infamous Milgram experiments showed that most (though not all) people are prepared to torture others, if instructed to do so by an authority figure. We have to take such facts into account in our laws and social systems, to try to prevent people from harming others.

As regards the sort of xenophobic 'collective punishment' being addressed here: it is undoubtedly true that if Israel bombs Gaza, manifestations of antisemitism are likely to increase elsewhere, and that if an Islamic group mounts a terrorist attack, attacks on Muslims are likely to increase elsewhere. However, this is not just, and is not akin to the law of gravity, in that people's social actions can be changed by the rules and expectations of society. And while Israel should not bomb Gaza, and Islamic Jihad should not mount terrorist attacks, I don't think that any group or country can or should alter its actions on the grounds of how members of the same ethnic group might be 'punished' by bigots elsewhere. If they do so, then this only encourages literal and figurative hostage-taking.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm all for high moral principles.
Edited on Mon May-11-09 09:31 AM by bemildred
But I can lower the murder rate, lower the crime rate in general, by ensuring that there are plenty of well paying jobs and providing ample economic security for all. Edit: Wars, similarly, can be expect to makes things more ugly. Endedit: It's not quite the law of gravity, but it is a quite predictable case of cause and effect. For a politician and a policy maker I think it essential to consider such issues. Would the Gaza War have gone forward had the government considered the ensuing ramifications and effects more carefully? I think not. It was all about short-term political considerations and emotional reactions to the unpleasant situation.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Er, You forget one thing
If you wanted to stop Zionism, you would be working to show that Jews could be safe anywhere without the need for Israel. When someone sprays graffiti on a synagogue in Belgium. or beats a Jew to death in England, you are only telling Jews that they need Israel to be safe. What Israel does should not affect Jews in Europe or the Americas, and if you think it should, you are only convincing Jews that they cannot feel safe at home, that they need Israel as the place to run to. Of course, if you are a leftist, you should work for a world where no minority, Jew, Muslim or (insert creed here), should feel threatened anywhere.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Jews are safer in lots of other places than they are in Israel.
But I do welcome your support for Palestinian rights and freedom to live without being threatened.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. True, but
One thing I do see is something of a hypocrisy in some of those who claim they speak for Islam. If kicking people out of their homes based on religions not good in Jerusalem, it cannot be good in Darfur either. I also cannot help but wonder who much of European dislike of Israel is indeed a clever way to hide anti-semitic feelings.

Truth be told, no religion can or should own Israel. If we were to give it to the people who had it for the longest time, and where actual peace was brought about, we would have to bring the Ottomans back, and that is not happening. There needs to be an active reduction in the power of either religion, because sure enough, neither the Rabbis nor the mullahs want coexistence.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I can agree with all of that, execept that the Ottoman's were always outsiders.
Edited on Mon May-11-09 09:27 AM by bemildred
The original occupants were a hodge-podge of religions and ethnicities, including Jews, most speaking Arab, culturally quite diverse. It is a "crossroads of History" and has been so for a very long time.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. The old "league table of suffering" mentality...
From the article:-

Between 2004 and 2008, the Centre recorded around 60 anti-Semitic incidents every year. The same number of incidents was recorded in the first four months of this year.

"About one third of the incidents are hate-mails. The remaining two thirds are hecklings or physical abuses....

A few cases are of severe violence."


and later:-

"The two realities (anti-semitism and Islamophobia) are incomparable," said David Lowy, founder of the JOBI group for Belgian youth in Israel. "There were some deplorable attacks against Muslims after 9/11 by extreme rightists, but mosques were not lit on fire as synagogues had been in January. Muslims were not threatened on the street."

Lowy noted that the attack in 9/11 was perpetrated in Islam's name, while Israel's invasion into Gaza was "in self-defense, unconnected to Belgian Jewery." He also remarked that no Belgian Jew or Belgian American attacked any Muslim after 9/11. "The same cannot be said about Belgian Muslims during Operation Cast Lead."

Yeah, thanks for that illuminating perspective on anti-Muslim sentiment, Dave, I'm glad to see that you're such a humanitarian.

If the entire apple harvest in Belgium was sixty apples in one year, and then the next year, sixty apples were produced in four months, would that qualify as a "skyrocketing" apple harvest, I wonder?

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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. It's worth noting...
that Belgium's entire Jewish population numbers a scant 40,000 or so. If the annual number of incidents occurring in your country is around one per every 700 people, then it may be worthy of mention when the frequency of those incidents triples.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Belgian opera shows Jew raping woman in anti-Israel piece
By portraying a religious Jew raping a woman in a show about Israel, the state-funded Flanders Opera is in danger of encouraging anti-Semitic stereotypes, leading members from Belgium's Jewish community told Haaretz.

The highly-controversial scene appeared in the premier of "Samson and Delilah" in Antwerp on Tuesday evening. The contested show was created by two Israelis, who turned the biblical tale of Samson into a reverse-role protest against Israel's occupation of Palestinians.

Belgium's Jewish community has condemned the opera directed by Omri Nitzan and Amir Nizar Zuabi for dressing Philistine conquerors in Western garb while Hebrew fighters like Samson wear Arab clothes.


The rape scene shows a Philistine religious priest dressed up as a religious Jew while raping Delilah, who was Samson's lover. The rapist was the only man in the show wearing a skull cap. The Flanders Opera could not be reached for a comment.

Samson lived in the 11th century BCE as a partisan under occupation of the Philistines - a powerful and technologically-advanced people of European roots. The Bible says he died at the hands of his occupiers, while killing many of his captors. This, according to the opera's creators, makes him "the world's first shaheed," or martyr.

more...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. And the annual Passion Play at Oberammergau depicts Jews as Christ killers
I may not agree with you on I/P conflict, but there is no denying that a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle, e.g., Oberammergau) level of anti-Semitism has become acceptable in far too many places.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. Is this part of a worldwide trend?
Other articles linked here indicate that anti-semitic attacks and sentiments are increasing in much of the world. What (in your opinion) would be at the root of such a trend?
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-11-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I suggest you look at why it has happened in the past for that
answer. Then you may get some understanding. Today's antisemitism is no different than before at its roots.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I'm interested in other opinions
I already have my own. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
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