Justice Minister pushes bill to extend rabbinical courts' authority

And you thought the secular Yisrael Beytenu Party was bad. Well, here is worse:

Last update - 03:55 18/05/2009

Justice Minister pushes bill to extend rabbinical courts' authority

By Yair Ettinger

Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman is moving forward with a government bill that would significantly expand the rabbinical courts' authority.

Under the bill, the rabbinical courts would have sole authority to hear any suit stemming from divorce agreements signed in a rabbinical court, including both financial and custody disputes. Currently, suits stemming from a divorce agreement must be filed in civil court, so the bill would essentially transfer this power from the civil to the rabbinical courts.

The Justice Ministry is also considering giving rabbinical courts sole authority to hear suits against husbands who refuse to grant their wives a divorce, thus depriving these women of their current right to file such suits in civil court.

The bill stems from verbal promises that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party made to Shas during the coalition negotiations. It is now in the final stages of being drafted, after which it will presumably be submitted to the Knesset.

For years, rabbinical courts did decide disputes stemming from divorce agreements, until the High Court of Justice ruled a few years ago that they lacked legal authority to do so. Proponents of the bill say this ruling created an absurd situation, in which the rabbinical courts approve divorce settlements but then have no power to enforce them. Opponents of the bill argue that granting the rabbinical courts such broad powers would essentially create two parallel court systems, one religious and one civil, and would violate the status quo on questions of religion and state. They also say this would seriously undermine women's rights, especially of women whose husbands refuse to divorce them.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1086222.html

but given enough time, and enough power, they will revert to their ancient murderous ways.

Still smells like the same sort of idea.

In fact, it is moving the state of Israel to the religious ghetto area.

of extending the Rabbinical courts' powers, but I take issue with you calling them "murderous". Rabbinical courts have no power to decree death sentences at all.

Furthermore even the Sanhedrins of old were extremely loath to hand out death sentences. The Talmud itself states that "a Sanhedrin that handed out a death sentence once in 70 years was considered a cruel Sanhedrin". There are dozens and dozens of loopholes in Jewish law which it is obligatory to use in order to avoid a death sentence.

from the time before the kings, there were what today we would call sharia courts.

If you are familiar with history, you would know of the age old conflict between the religious authorities and the secular authorities. For example, King Henry II's dispute with Archbishop of Canterbury Thomas Becket over the royal courts' jurisdiction over Becket's priests.

You're spouting a load of nonsense. What is written in Leviticus is only half the law, being read without the Oral Law (Talmud) which is an integral part of Jewish law, whether you accept that or not. I repeat, Jewish courts (Bet Din or Sanhedrin, the High Court) almost never handed out death sentences. Plus, the laws of convicting anyone are exceedingly strict, necessitating witnesses before the act (to warn the "felon" that he is committing a sin and must stop) and then after the act, in court. if you had the slightest knowledge of Jewish law at all you would know this.

What went on in Christian history is a whole other ball game and has nothing at all do with the subject under discussion. Christians are not Jews, do not behave like Jews, and are not bound by Jewish law so I don't quite know why you brought it up.

many posters who THINK they know something, when in fact they don't. But then people have been making stuff up about Jews for centuries based on their ignorance and prejudices so why would I be surprised.

Are you saying you prefer to live under religious law, rather than secular? Should we throw rocks at those that break the Sabbath? Oh, wait! That is happening already.

spouting more nonsense. The Oral Law was given to Moses at the same time as the Pentateuch. It was Oral - not written down - for centuries, but taught from father to son. It was written down, forming the Mishna at the time of the destruction of the First Temple when the Jews were sent into exile in Babylon. With further exegesis if formed the Talmud after the Second Temple was destroyed.

Do I prefer to live under religious law? Who knows? I live under secular law in Israel. Anyone throwing rocks on the Sabbath is a criminal and is prosecuted.

So because someone disagrees with your assertion that Rabbis were once (and will be again given enough time and power), a murderous sect of deviants, that means that they must prefer to live under religious law rather than secular?

Should we throw rocks at those that break the Sabbath? Oh, wait! That is happening already.

Ummm... dude, aren't you from America? The country with all that fancy secular law which manages to find mentally retarded people fit for execution? You're actually going to sit there and try to decry an entire religion as violent because some fringe nutjobs in Jerusalem throw rocks at Sabbath breakers (which is illegal btw), when it's legal for a schitzophrenic man to purchase a machine gun in your country?

for only defending Israel and never critiquing it. I think this thread is a great illustration of why that is so.

This OP is normally the kind of thing that I would immediately decry. It's a huge step backwards and is demonstrative of a major flaw in Israel's system of government. There's plenty to criticize here. But then as I read down the thread and notice a comment like this: "but given enough time, and enough power, they will revert to their ancient murderous ways." my attention shifts from offering a mere opinion to engaging what I see as a more pressing issue, bigotry and ignorance.

The sad thing is that there are so many legitimate things to dislike about this new legislation, and even Ultra-Orthodox society as a whole. It's closed minded, backward thinking, misogynistic, discriminatory and discourages progressive and innovative thinking. There's no reason to engage in hyperbole of this nature. Because as much as I might dislike Ultra-Orthodox ideology the idea that its unchecked influence would eventually transform Israel into a Taliban-like society is not only deeply offensive, but also astoundingly clueless.

Judaism happens to be a very peaceful religion with a deeply held reverence for life. Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about the history or philosophy of Judaism would know the central role that preserving life holds, and has always held, in the religion. Especially when cultures exist that actually do engage in murderous practices it seems the height of temerity to suggest that a society with an ancient history that lauds the exact opposite would, if left unchecked, prefer to embrace violence and death as a core value.

Dude, you're a retard.

then there would be no recognition of same sex marriages, adoption, laws against discrimination, etc. those are all things the Orthodox oppose. There wouldn't be recognition and protections for other religions.

Now, the OP is a bad sign, and Israel could turn into a theocracy, but as of now, it's not one.