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Ministers reject Yisrael Beiteinu's loyalty oath bill

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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 09:59 AM
Original message
Ministers reject Yisrael Beiteinu's loyalty oath bill
The ministerial legislative committee rejected on Sunday a bill stating that those who wish to retain Israeli citizenship would have to declare their loyalty to Israel as a Jewish state.

The bill, put forth by Yisrael Beiteinu's MK David Rotem, stated that oath would include a pledge of loyalty to Israel as a Jewish, Zionist, and democratic state, to its emblems and values, and serving Israel either through military service or through any equivalent alternatives.

Almost all of the committee's members opposed the proposed bill, excluding only Yisrael Beiteinu MKs.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089252.html
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's because they know it already goes without saying.
Why be redundant?
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. If the Bill had passed, would Arabs with Israeli citizenship have to serve in the Army
or do civilian service, even if it was against their interests? Would they be forcibly evicting other Arabs from their homes in East Jerusalem as part of following orders for example?
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Waiting for the howls of outrage from fundies
about the exclusion of Israeli Christians.
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Any time now, crickets
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. perhaps that is why the bill did not pass
the fact that Arabs are not required to serve is a statement about not only the Israeli majority's beliefs about Arab Israelis loyalty in it self and the majority's intentions towards at least some Arab citizens in general
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. rofl
maybe Israel doesn't require its Arabs to serve BECAUSE they don't want to put them in the uncomfortable position to fight against their fellow Arabs.

nah....Israelis are evil - besides it's not fun here if you can't just make up shit and bash Israelis 24/7, right?

Arab military service within Israel is voluntary, and the state doesn't just discriminate based on race/ethnicity alone.

Nice try though, if you were trying to convince anyone here who lacked even a middle school understanding of the conflict.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yep I am familar with that spin
oh we're doing them a favor and you forgot to mention that Israeli Arabs can do civil if they wish oops but still and none the less the fact that Israel does not require Arabs to serve while it does Jews with Haredi being the exception is a statement in it self
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. well, I'll give it you - at least you're consistent
Edited on Sun May-31-09 01:40 PM by shira
:eyes:

tell me, if an Arab Israeli wishes not to serve on the basis of not wanting to harm fellow Arabs, you have a problem with Israel granting that wish?

really now, you know you'd be criticizing Israel if they forced service on all Arab Israelis.....Israel can't win with you no matter what they do.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Would Israeli Arabs or Palestinians with Israeli citizenship
Edited on Mon Jun-01-09 12:12 AM by azurnoir
be harming fellow Arabs by doing civil service? That is an alternative for those who do not wish to serve in the military and your right I am quite consistent on this issue, all Israeli citizens who are able bodied should required to serve or none should be required to serve it is that simple, but I am glad to see you admit that the IDF does harm Arabs
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-28-09 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Once again...criticism of the Israeli government is not "bashing Israelis"
The Israeli government does not equal all Israelis. Nor does it equal "hating the Jews". And you know it.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow, that's almost like the oath American presidents take to bend over for Israel.
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henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Which oath would that be then?
Could you give me the exact wording? I am extremely interested.
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Sezu Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well well well. Democratic values win again in the state
so many around here hate. The sky did not fall.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-28-09 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. The defeat of this legislation does not justify what's been done to Palestinians
And it isn't hatred of Israel to disagree with destructive policies carried out by the Israeli government.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good news!
I wish Lieberman would just disappear into the obscurity that he richly deserves.
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henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Political cynicism run amok
here
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-28-09 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. It's political cynicism to kill a reactionary, hate-driven and unneeded law?
n/t.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-28-09 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I interpreted this as meaning
that it was political cynicism to propose the bill in the first place; i.e. that Lieberman knew it would be killed but wanted the publicity for proposing it.

A big ugh to him anyway - and thanks to all who killed the bill, even those with whom I would disagree on many other issues.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-29-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. It's political cynics who promote such laws
But of course, that's not why the link was shared here.

This is what we were intended to see:
All of which leaves the question, why try in the first place if everyone knows it won't happen? Why give the Guardian and the Juan Coles of this world unnesseccary grist for their mills? A fine subject for a different post, someday. Though I will note that no matter how childish the politicians-media-NGO activists are, the foreign reporters who eagerly take only part of the story and use it to damn Israel shouldn't be exonerated. They could tell the same story I've just told you, but scrupulously won't, ever.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. Do you think the other proposed bills will get killed off?
one of the politicians in the article said that what happened to this bill would stop fascist and fascist bills being raised. I know there's another two bills that hopefully will meet the same fate, but one of them is further along and has already been approved by the committee...
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Here is some updated info on one of the other two bills
Cabinet proposal: Soften 'Nakba bill'

Cabinet Secretary Zvi Hauzer has proposed an amendment to the so-called "Nakba bill", which was approved last week by the Knesset's Ministerial Committee for Legislative Affairs.

According to the proposal, which is backed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, if passed by the Knesset, the bill will allow Israeli citizens to mark "Nakba Day" – or the "catastrophe of Israel's inception in 1948 – but will prevent government funding for any activities related to it.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3723559,00.html
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-01-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks for that info....
Let's hope that amendment passes, as from the sounds of it, it basically rips the balls off that really nasty bill...
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-28-09 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Hope that the amendment passes!
If even Netanyahu backs it, it probably will?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-31-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. That is good news oberliner, especially where it states,
Edited on Sun May-31-09 10:14 PM by Jefferson23
"almost all of the committee members opposed the proposed bill." Thank goodness for that.
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