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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:26 AM
Original message
Barak: Israel won't be pressured into signing nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
* Shock alert:

Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Wednesday that Israel would not be pressured into signing the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, stressing that unlike other countries, Israel had never threatened to destroy another nation.

"There is no room to pressure Israel to join the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel has never threatened to annihilate other nations and peoples, while today Iran, and also Syria, Libya and Iraq in the past, all of whom signed this treaty, have systematically violated its stipulations while explicitly threatening Israel's existence," Barak said during a memorial service for fallen Israel Defense Forces soldiers at the Defense Ministry."



These days," he went on to say, "the threats against Israel have not ceased. Facing these threats is a strong army, ready and prepared, with the entire Israeli people behind it."


On Tuesday, United States President Barack Obama urged all countries, including Israel, to sign the international nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, or NPT.

in full: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1163071.html
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh good.
:popcorn:
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. What did you mean by 'Oh good'?.........n/t
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Should be an entertaining discussion.
That's why the popcorn. Barak has a talent for making inflammatory and unwise comments (IMHO, of course, and of course he is far from alone in that).
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-14-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Au contraire
Edited on Wed Apr-14-10 10:55 PM by shaayecanaan
"Israel is not the only country that can be wiped off the map"

Shimon Peres

"A new Amalek* (Iran) is appearing"

Binyamin Netanyahu

*The Amalekites were a people mentioned in the Bible whom the Israelites were commanded by God to destroy:- "Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys." 1 Sam.15:2-3

"(Israel) may act in a way that would send Syria back to the Stone Age"

Ariel Sharon, to Colin Powell





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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. With respect to your quotes
I believe this is the actual Peres quote:

"Now when it comes to destruction, Iran too can be destroyed (but) I don’t suggest to say an eye for an eye”

For the Netanyahu quote, you have added "Iran" in parenthesis even though there was no mention of Iran anywhere in the speech where that statement appeared.

With respect to the third quote, do you have a source? I cannot find any firsthand account of that comment being made.



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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The actual Peres quote is "Iran can also be wiped off the map"

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/world/2006/5/8/13207/Peres-says-that-Iran-can-also-be-wiped-off-the-map

Most people accepted that the Netanyahu reference was directed at Iran. The beauty of dog-whistle statements such as the Amalekite reference is that the target audience knew exactly what he was talking about, but it still left enough opacity for apologists such as yourself to try and blur the issues.

In relation to the third quote, I will probably have to get back to you. I remember reading it in a credible source, but the only sources at the moment that I can find are not credible. I also recall Israeli officials making "back to the stone age" references in relation to Lebanon and Gaza.


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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. No it's not
With all due respect to your citation from Dominican Today which itself is reporting on what Army Radio claimed Peres said in an interview with Reuters, I provide for you an actual Reuters source referencing the same Reuters interview:

In a 2006 Reuters interview, then-vice premier Shimon Peres, currently Israel's president, said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has called for Israel to be wiped off the map, should bear in mind his country also could be destroyed.

"They want to wipe out Israel ... Now when it comes to destruction, Iran too can be destroyed (but) I don't suggest to say an eye for an eye," Peres said

http://alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L9623800.htm
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Well, it was reported much more widely than that...
including in the Jerusalem Post.

I am trying to find a copy of the interview...it looks like it was conducted 8 May 2006. That would probably settle the matter.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Much appreciated
If you could find that interview and post it, that would be great. I have not been able to find the whole thing myself. I wonder if it was conducted in English or Hebrew? My suspicion is that the Reuters interview was conducted in English and the Israeli Army Radio reporting on it was in Hebrew. This might explain why sources that cited the Army Radio (such as the source you provided, and JPost) appear to have a different version of the quote from the one referenced in other Reuters articles (such as the one I linked to upthread).

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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You could have used a search engine.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't regard that second website as credible
however, I have read the reference elsewhere, as well as similar references to Lebanon and Gaza.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Saw it as dubious also.
A later search, using a different spelling -- "Yedioth Ahronoth." turned up this: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/files/rc/papers/2009/03_syria_israel_rabinovich/03_syria_israel_rabinovich.pdf

Too late at night to read it, but there are others using that spelling that may may7 be more relevant.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Your second link is the only place I've seen that alleged quote referenced
I would like to be find an actual first-hand citation for the quote itself if one exists.

As for your JPost, citation, I do not argue that Netanyahu didn't make the Amalek comment; however, I take issue with the fact that the word "Iran" was added by the poster even though it did not appear in the quote or anywhere in the speech.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Cutting to the chase here
do you think Israel should sign the NPT?
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. They havent signed the Biological Weapons Convention either...
in fact, Israel is the only country outside of Africa and small, south-east Asian nations not to have done so.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I think it was quite clear the reference was to Iran
Additionally, one of Netanyahu's advisers has stated that Netanyahu considers Iran to be the new Amalek:-

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17goldberg.html?_r=1

I recently asked one of his advisers to gauge for me the depth of Mr. Netanyahu’s anxiety about Iran. His answer: “Think Amalek.”

If you consider that the Amalek reference related to something else, perhaps you could tell us.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yes, as everyone knows, the Juice destroy Amalek every generation since biblical times
Edited on Thu Apr-15-10 08:38 PM by shira
It's just a matter of time before the next Amalek is dealt with; women, children, babies, and livestock.

:eyes:

Wow - it's these kinds of discussions that take me back to my days with far RW evangelical christian missionaries telling me the intentions and motivations of 'my people' since time immemorial. So many similarities...
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. And as you know, the Iranians harbour a desire to destroy every Jew on Earth...
notwithstanding the fact that the largest Jewish population in the middle East outside of Israel lives in Iran.

I do not suggest that Netanyahu actively intends to kill all of Iran's donkeys. I think he is merely handing out red meat to his supporters and engaging in a bit of good old-fashioned sabre rattling. However, I am at least consistent enough to put Ahmadinejad's verbal bluster in the same category.

Americans are very prone to dismissing their own rhetorical excesses as harmless gee-up while portraying the threats from their enemies as deadly serious. When Khruschev took off his shoe and banged it on the table and shouted "we will bury you", most people were sane enough to see it for the cathartic exercise that it was - except for the American media, who devoted many columns of crappy editorials to asking "what did he really mean?".

"Wow - it's these kinds of discussions that take me back to my days with far RW evangelical christian missionaries telling me the intentions and motivations of 'my people' since time immemorial."

Actually, on this forum I tend to find it is precisely the opposite. Not only do right-wing posters such as yourself presume to know exactly what Iran's intentions are, but there are plenty of posts saying that "The Palestinians don't really want a state" or "they don't want a two-state solution, they want the destruction of Israel" and so forth.







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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. No, just zionists like the ones in the Argentina JCC....
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 02:44 AM by shira
"If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.) Nasrallah is one of the most admired men in the Muslim and Arab world today. Hitler made similar threats in Mein Kampf but they were largely ignored. Nasrallah has a reputation for keeping his promises.

His genocidal goals--to kill all Jews--were proven by two recent statements. He has warned the Arabs and Muslims to leave Haifa so that his rockets can kill only Jews. And he apologized for causing the deaths of three Israeli-Arabs in Nazareth, when a Katuysha struck that religiously mixed Israeli city. Hezbollah also worked hand-in-hand with Argentine neo-Nazis to blow up a Jewish community center, murdering dozens of Jews.

Nasrallah is a modern day Hitler, who currently lacks the capacity to carry out his genocide. But he is an ally of Iran, which will soon have the capacity to kill Israeli's five million Jews. Listen to what the former President of Iran has said about how Iran would use its nuclear weapons:

Hashemi Rafsanjani, the former president of Iran, has threatened Israel with nuclear destruction, boasting that an attack would kill as many as five million Jews. Rafsanjani estimated that even if Israel retaliated by dropping its own nuclear bombs, Iran would probably lose only fifteen million people, which he said would be a small "sacrifice" from among the billion Muslims in the world.

Now listen to the current President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who denies the Nazi Holocaust, but calls for a modern Holocaust that would "wipe Israel off the map."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/hezbollahs-goal-going-aft_b_26983.html

See? They REALLY don't mean it. Actions matter not. Oh yeah, my favorite, those are mistranslations or taken out of context. :eyes:

Just like far RW nutjob christian fundamentalists, Rightwingers like yourself tend to be religious true-believers who are impervious to logic and reason.
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well, here is the actual quote from Rafsanjani
"If one day, the Islamic world is also equipped with weapons like those that Israel possesses now, then the imperialists' strategy will reach a standstill because the use of even one nuclear bomb inside Israel will destroy everything. However, it will only harm the Islamic world. It is not irrational to contemplate such an eventuality. Of course, you can see that the Americans have kept their eyes peeled and they are carefully looking for even the slightest hint that technological advances are being made by an independent Islamic country. If an independent Islamic country is thinking about acquiring other kinds of weaponry, then they will do their utmost to prevent it from acquiring them. Well, that is something that almost the entire world is discussing right now."

I suspect the reason why Dershowitz didnt include the actual quote is because it did not support his point of view. The point being made is that if Iran became nuclear, no military action against them could reasonably be contemplated - which is obviously true.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Israel wiping out Iran like Amalek? Hatemonger much? (nt)
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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I can almost hear the butter not melting in your mouth (nt)
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
22. Refusal to sign the NPT makes Israels protests
about Irans nuclear program even less credible, so hopefully it will help to lessen the sabre-rattling in the long run.
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