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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 09:05 PM
Original message
Palestinian population grew 8-fold since '48
RAMALLAH (Ma'an) -- As Palestinians prepare to mark Nakba Day, statisticians released figures Thursday showing the world-wide Palestinian population is eight times that of 1948, the period commemorated Sunday.

The Nakba, or catastrophe, refers to fighting which saw an estimated 700,000 Palestinians were expelled from or fled their homes in fighting that would lead to the establishment of the state of Israel.

The population that year was 1.4 million, the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics said, while at the end of 2010 it was estimated at 11 million globally, and 5.5 million in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, while 5.7 million Jews reside in the area.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=386989
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting......Do Palestinians have a "Law of Return" for their diaspora?.......
Interesting......Do Palestinians have a "Law of Return" for their diaspora?.......Or even a right to leave the land and return to the land of their birth?
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Palestinians pretty much all live "in the land of their birth"
Edited on Fri May-13-11 12:22 AM by oberliner
Unless they immigrated to the Europe or the US or something like that.

Once a Palestinian state is established, I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented a Law of Return for their diaspora.

And of course, they all do have the right to leave and return to the land, as long as they don't want to go through Israel (unless they are Israeli citizens).

Edit to Add: Canada has also been a popular destination for Palestinian emigrees.
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Do they all have the right to leave and return?........
Edited on Fri May-13-11 04:24 AM by kayecy
And of course, they all do have the right to leave and return to the land, as long as they don't want to go through Israel (unless they are Israeli citizens).

Do they all have the right to leave and return?........Even the 140,000 West Bank Palestinians who had their ID's confiscated?


(http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-admits-it-covertly-canceled-residency-status-of-140-000-palestinians-1.360935?utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=c9c2b0cb66-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email)

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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No, but neither do the refugees in the state where you live.
Once Palestinians have their own state, a state they've rejected countless times the last 75 years, they can set up their very own LoR.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. How do these questions relate to the OP about the Palestinian population growth?
Just curious.
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. They don't........Please feel free to be curious as you like.........n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Then why did you ask them?
What motivated the question?

Do you have any thoughts on the OP itself at all?

For instance, do you think that the growing Palestinian population (both inside and outside of Israel) will result in any policy changes?
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I hope that answers all your questions........
Edited on Fri May-13-11 08:44 AM by kayecy
What motivated the question?

1. Just curious.



Do you have any thoughts on the OP itself at all?

2. Yes...As I said, the OP was interesting....I was wondering how the 5.7 million quoted would have increased over the years if Palestinians had been allowed to return to the West Bank freely...... Do they in fact have a right to leave and return to the land of their birth?
You chose to reply:
And of course, they all do have the right to leave and return to the land, as long as they don't want to go through Israel

3. Do you still believe that to be the situation?



For instance, do you think that the growing Palestinian population (both inside and outside of Israel) will result in any policy changes?

4. I assume you are referring to Israeli policy changes......If you are thinking that the prospect of an Arab majority west of the Jordan might change things, well I think you are mistaken.....Likud may still think in terms of Greater Israel, but in practical terms it is not going to happen so the Jewish/Arab ratio is not important (outside of "Israel-within-the Green line").



I hope that answers all your questions.... Perhaps you would be good enough to respond to mine in (3.) above....



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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. of course not.
They don't have a state yet. Once they have one then it'll be up to them whether or not to have a law of return. They could certainly use one! But maybe if palestine is created then the other arab states will no longer feel the need to oppress their palestinian residents so rigorously... finally allowing them citizenship in their current foster nations.

Or even a right to leave the land and return to the land of their birth?

As with pretty much everyone else on earth, that depends on where and when they were born, as well as what state they are currently a citizen of. A right like this is hardly absolute.
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That's rather a sweeping statement isn't it?.....
As with pretty much everyone else on earth, that depends on where and when they were born, as well as what state they are currently a citizen of. A right like this is hardly absolute.

As with pretty much everyone else on earth!........That's rather a sweeping statement isn't it?.....Which states will not allow a person who was born in that state the right to return and take up residence?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You should know the answer to your question. You live in a place that doesn't allow RoR.
Cyprus

The population of Cyprus is 80% Greek and 20% Turkish. In response to a threat by the majority Greek population to unite the island with Greece in 1974, Turkish forces invaded the island. As a result of the invasion, Cyprus was divided into two halves: one Greek and the other Turkish. Two hundred thousand ethnic Greeks moved to the Greek-controlled half of the island, and 50,000 Turkish Moslems moved to the Turkish part of the island.

From the time of the partition of the island, the Greek half has flourished there are no refugee camps, no terror, and no incitement of terror against the Turks, despite the fact that Turkey settled 100,000 more Turks on the Turkish-controlled half of the island (in contravention of international law) and brought in tens of thousands of soldiers to maintain its military regime. In contrast to the Greek half of the island, the Turkish half has experienced severe unemployment and a stagnant economy.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan devised a far-reaching proposal to reunite the island in 2004, but in a national referendum, the Greek half of the island rejected the plan. Nevertheless, the U.N. plan does provide an interesting insight into the international community's view of the right of return in general. The plan did not hint at a general right of return of those who had fled their homes upon partition of the island. Only Greeks over 65 years old were granted anything like a right of return, and even then, only on condition that they not constitute more than 10% of the total Turkish population, and no more than 20% in any particular area.

Had Israel accepted such a proposal, it would have had to export Palestinians rather than bring them back for the simple reason that Palestinians constitute over 10% of Israel's population.


http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5990

How is it possible you're not aware of what's happening in your own state?

There are many more examples in the link above.
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kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I live in Cyprus, Shira, but, unlike you, I don't try to defend inhuman state policy!...........n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Israel not allowing all refugees back is not inhuman state policy.
We all know very well why Arab dictatorships press for RoR and have deliberately kept the refugees living in misery the last 63 years.

I don't see you advocating more than 5 minutes for refugee rights under oppressive Arab leadership, including within the territories.
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Depends on when they were born. And when.
A period of unrest that accompanies many states at the time of their creation can be the cause for people being unable to return to the "land" (not necessarily the state), they were born in. Examples of this include Palestinians, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, pretty much any Jew born in an Arab state, and so on.

Political reasons have created refugees throughout the 20th century. The Palestinians (again) from Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and so on. Syrian Druze who emigrated to Israel. Former inhabitants of Soviet states. Millions of refugees following WWI and WWII. And the vast majority of Jews on the planet who were born anywhere but in America or Israel before 1950.

Point being, it depends on circumstances. The Palestinians are lucky in that once they obtain their own state they will have the ability to instate a right of return for as many of the victims of the Nakba as they wish. Which they desperately need as the Palestinians are the only group (to my knowledge), who have had their status as refugees made permanent by international decree via the UN and enforced by groups like the Arab League and the UNRWA. So while other groups of refugees eventually found equitable solutions to their plight many Palestinians have been kept in a state of semi-permanent, rootless destitution.
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