France to Israel: No evidence Hamas, Islamic Jihad are ''terror groups'

France to Israel: No evidence Hamas, Islamic Jihad are ''terror groups'
Yediot Aharonot (summarised by Al-bawaba), August 25 2003

France expressed objections to placing Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the European Union(EU)'s list of "terror organizations", according to an Israeli report on Monday.

Israel's Yediot Aharonot website reported that diplomatic advisor to French President Jacques Chirac, Maurice Gourdault-Montagne, told the Israeli ambassador in France, Nissim Zvilli, during a weekend meeting, that there is no evidence that these two organizations are "terror groups."

"If we find that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are indeed terror groups opposed to peace, we may have to change the EU's stand," Gordo conveyed. "However, we mustn't limit ourselves to one, clear cut, position."

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France, according to Gordo, is opposed to placing both Hamas and Islamic Jihad on the EU list, and believes Israel should deal with its "terror threats" through political, rather than military, channels

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http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=257044&lang=e&dir=news
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2736056,00.html (subscription required)

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Comment: This says otherwise:



What the hell is France thinking? :puke:

Especially when you show that graph at the end of the post. I'd be kind of interested to see the EU list of terror organisations if it's available...

Violet...

"Freedom Fighters"

cripes, guys, we were with you about Iraq but this is laughable.

This is, obviously, being influenced by the large Muslim population.

OTOH comparing these orgs to Al Qeada is apples and oranges.

population of France is 20% Muslem (mostly under 20, and the non-Muslem population is aging and not replenishing their numbers. Demographics seems to win in the end.

The Muslim population of France is 5%-8%, there are roughly 3-5 million Muslims in France which has a rough population of 60 million, there are about 600,000 Jews in France.

Of that Muslim population, 27% are considered religous(attending mosques, France has few mosques for the size of it's Muslim population) and of that 27%, 70% are of Morroccan descent. There are no Muslims serving in France's National Assembly, There are no Muslim ministers, and there are two Muslims state secretaries, in veteran affairs, and development. Of that 3-5 million roughly half are actually French citizens with the right to vote.

The anti-French, anti-Muslim, facsists who write Frontpage Magazine is probably where you got your erroneous figure from. Many of the stories there on Muslims and France seem to echo the thoughts of Le Pen (except they often think that France and the French sucked before the rise in Muslim population).

Patrick Schoeb

all sources I checked,

including but not limited to Front Page say the number of Muslems in France are between 3-10 million.


a French columnist (Maria-Sliwa) states: There are about 5 million Muslims and 650,000 Jews in France, the largest number for both communities in Europe. :)

Nice range. Sorry, you're caught out. Run along. :D

ranged from a few as 3million to as many as 10million, take your pick.

If you're going to flat out state that France has "20% Muslems(sic)", when you're basing that number on widely varying reports, you either:

1. Write that "France is between 4.9%-16% Muslim"
2. Write that "France has between 3-10million Muslims"

In either case, it would do for you to understand that 20% of 61.1 million is actually 12.2 million.

Oh, and no-one serious gives figures that have a range of over 300% difference. That'd be like saying "between 8 and 24 people died in today's Jerusalem bombing", or "McDonalds serves between 150m-500m burgers a day".

Or to save yourself a lot of bother, you could stop reading reactionary anti-French nutcase sites. Whatever is easier, you know?

No one really knows becauese According to Article 1 of France’s 1958 Constitution, “France is an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic. It assures equality before the law to all citizens without distinction of origin, race or religion.” So the French do not, as far as I know, keep records so it's all problamatic, and frankly my dear, I couldn't care less. :boring:

Are you actually serious, or did you just google for some nonsense?

They're still terrorist groups because they target civilians. What *IS* France thinking?

What do they have to do, show up at EU headquarters and flash, with little "I am a terrorist" signs on their dicks? When groups proudly proclaim their guilt, the least the French could do is believe them. To do otherwise is just rude.

Perhaps Jewish deaths do not calculate.

are already on the EU list.

This report is about the political branch of Hamas, which France objects to. Some people feel the two braches are inseperable, some people feel that they are not. I personally don't know which is correct. I'm not sure how Islamic Jihad fits into this, since they are already on the EU list, and I don't believe they consider it to have branches. So either the reporter got it wrong, or Gourdault-Montagne did. I believe that France was looking into putting the Committee for Welfare and Relief for Palestine on the list, so maybe this is what Gourdault-Montagne was talking about? This group is claimed by US to send money to Hamas, though I don't know which branch.

These articles(the ultimate source is Yediot Aharonot) are factually poor, for not pointing this out.

Patrick Schoeb

if so, their decision makes more sense. I sitll disagree with it.

If I remember correctly, they're 7 and 14 on the list. Although I was talking about Hamas specifically (I don't believe you can seperate the two in terms of finance BTW), I should have pointed this out myself.

You're completely right, tinnypriv.

'...there is no evidence that these two organizations are "terror groups." '


This is so nutty that the only thing one can say about it is that it is insane.

It's like one of those Marcel Duchamp objects being called art.

It's flat out, flat Earth nuts.

Does diplomatic advisor Maurice Gourdault-Montagne speak for the government of France? Is this the official position of the French government? If it is not, then the headline "France to Israel" is not accurate.

.

n/t

Hamas and these other groups take credit for killing kids on purpose and Fance doesn't consider them to be terrorists? Did these kids they targeted and killed somehow deserve to be blown up or what?

Has France totally lost its collective mind?