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Ice4Clark (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-07-05 11:18 PM Original message |
Thermal image taken shortly after the plane crash in WTC |
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philb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-07-05 11:53 PM Response to Original message |
1. Surely someone would have looked for a part number |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 02:22 PM Response to Original message |
2. The fires weren't that hot. Particularly since most of the fuel burned up |
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janedoe (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 03:11 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. According to the first color image, |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 03:46 PM Response to Reply #3 |
5. How far away from the building was the picture taken? |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 08:15 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Excellent question |
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vincent_vega_lives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 07:41 AM Response to Reply #3 |
56. You really believe that? |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 03:53 PM Response to Reply #56 |
98. Campfires burn at 400 to 600 degrees C. |
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janedoe (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 04:59 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. Here's a hot campfire :-) |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 06:09 PM Response to Reply #99 |
100. It's a Raging Inferno, LOL! n/t |
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janedoe (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 06:34 PM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Melting Airplane Engines |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 07:56 AM Response to Reply #102 |
131. It depends on what nationality starts the fire, of course... |
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janedoe (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 10:33 AM Response to Reply #131 |
132. It's not what nationality starts the fire, silly. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 03:40 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Nonsense |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 07:53 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. You don't know much about office buidlings, do you? |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 08:19 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. You don't know much about sprinkler systems do you |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 09:53 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. I know enough to see that FEMA is lying, as usual. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 07:11 AM Response to Reply #11 |
17. You really should do some research before responding |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 07:48 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. Speaking of critical thinking, the reports you keep citing are unreliable, |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:08 AM Response to Reply #18 |
19. The bottom line is that the sprinkler systems were not |
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janedoe (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:14 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Isn't it ironic |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:31 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Ironic wasn't the word I had in mind |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 11:49 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Until you show me the system specifications |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 02:30 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Sorry, I'm not doing your homework for you |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 07:40 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Standards are not specifications. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 07:58 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. Well, that true, but is there a point in telling us this? |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:15 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. You're telling me you don't know the difference |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:21 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Wow, did you make all that up yourself |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 11:07 PM Response to Reply #30 |
35. I don't make stuff up, and I had lots of help. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 03:44 PM Response to Reply #27 |
37. The specs aren't what you want either |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 10:08 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. Yes, they are. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 10:18 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. Actually, I write specs all the time. |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 10:35 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Ahem, we're talking about NYC, not the O K Corral. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 10:52 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Doesn't matter |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 11:17 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Sure. But we're talking about a fire sprinkler system. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 06:19 PM Response to Reply #8 |
48. Actually, that's not entirely correct |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 09:52 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. very helpful! |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 05:01 AM Response to Reply #48 |
54. What does all out operation mean? |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 04:57 PM Response to Reply #54 |
63. All of them... |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 06:54 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Thanks for your response |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 11:56 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. That's not correct... |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 07:11 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. A question |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 08:11 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Yes |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 08:39 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. I have an older copy of NFPA 13 at work |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 03:18 PM Response to Reply #70 |
78. I'm not disputing your estimate, I just wonder where you derived this... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 09:26 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. What do you make of this? |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 10:12 AM Response to Reply #71 |
72. It means mikelewis is right and the FEMA/NIST reports are horseshit. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 10:15 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Can you elaborate on that? |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 10:23 AM Response to Reply #73 |
74. I could, but I'm not going to belabor the obvious. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 10:25 AM Response to Reply #74 |
75. Translated as |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 10:28 AM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Clue: "multiple supply lines, pumps, tanks, and backup delivery systems." |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 01:39 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. Slowly sound out the words |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 02:31 AM Response to Reply #77 |
81. "The other side"? You mean the Bush-Cheney noise machine? |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 06:14 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. No, the other side are those that read AND comprehend (n/t) |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 04:25 PM Response to Reply #69 |
79. The nature of a fire sprinkler system... |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-13-05 06:19 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Causes of failure... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 11:10 AM Response to Reply #69 |
88. FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM GREEN |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 12:02 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Let's see, "the water was falling down like rapids, ankle deep." |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 12:36 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. I don't believe it was coached at all... |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 12:18 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. The pipes that lead to the floors are in core.... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:50 PM Response to Reply #92 |
110. The reason I posted the Firefighter interview.... |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 07:16 AM Response to Reply #68 |
83. mikelewis; please review these links and |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 07:44 AM Response to Reply #83 |
84. Google isn't going to restore your credibility or Bush's |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 07:50 AM Response to Reply #84 |
85. Let me guess |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 09:40 AM Response to Reply #83 |
86. I'm not sure what your asking... |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 01:43 PM Response to Reply #86 |
95. This is where we disagree |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 03:46 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. 2 systems, 4 supply lines, 5 pumps, and 6 5,000-gallon tanks |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:00 PM Response to Reply #97 |
105. So how does |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:26 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. Show me the specs and I'll tell you. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 09:47 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. What spec's are you looking for? (n/t) |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 01:50 PM Response to Reply #111 |
117. The system specifications, obviously. n/t |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 03:10 PM Response to Reply #117 |
118. You think the system specs will tell you how |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 03:34 PM Response to Reply #118 |
119. They'll show how much the system could deliver and for how long, yes, |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 04:05 PM Response to Reply #119 |
121. Thank you for making my point. I agree they are inaccurate |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 04:11 PM Response to Reply #121 |
122. If your point is that NIST is feeding baloney to fools, you're welcome. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 05:02 PM Response to Reply #122 |
123. Another well reasoned reply, (n/t) |
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MercutioATC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 05:09 PM Response to Reply #118 |
126. LARED, you obviously don't know about the 15M gallon water tank at the WTC |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 10:52 AM Response to Reply #67 |
87. NFPA standards online. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 11:37 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. Okay... if you go to Chapter 11 Section 2.... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 12:08 PM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Past and present standards. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 12:45 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. They have to meet the current standards of when the sprinkler system... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:41 PM Response to Reply #94 |
109. Thanks. ( n/t ) |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 05:05 PM Response to Reply #94 |
124. Mike, I really appreciate you bringing your expertise to this forum |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 10:17 PM Response to Reply #6 |
13. A small electric short circuit started a blaze |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 10:47 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. The Windsor building was concrete framed, burned 24 hrs, did not collapse, |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 02:09 PM Response to Reply #14 |
23. But it was packed with flammable materials... |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 07:38 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. It was undergoing renovation |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:45 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. There was about 60 tons per floor of flammable material in the WTC... |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 11:05 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. That's why they had automatic sprinklers. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 07:40 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. And how did the sprinklers survive the impact? |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 10:12 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Just like the rest of the structure did. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 03:44 PM Response to Reply #42 |
47. Your contention is not believable... |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 09:57 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. That doesn't make it any less true. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 10:06 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Interesting way to concede the point but thanks. n/t |
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pox americana (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 10:12 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. May I suggest the purchase of an English dictionary. n/t |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-11-05 10:18 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. When you respond to a reasoned statement.. |
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stickdog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:39 AM Response to Reply #32 |
59. Sure. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 11:02 AM Response to Reply #59 |
62. Read this .. do the math.. |
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stickdog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:05 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. Look at this, then get a clue. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 07:34 PM Response to Reply #62 |
103. Actually, since the building was only 30% occupied at best... |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 07:38 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. 30% occupied? |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:03 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. The WTC was only 30% occupied? At best? |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 11:34 PM Response to Reply #106 |
112. Before I show you mine, you show me yours... |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 11:41 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. And I just discovered that I was wrong, it wasn't 30%.. can you guess... |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 11:45 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. I thought in your previous post you meant tenant occupancy. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 12:22 AM Response to Reply #114 |
115. How many tenants were there? |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 03:17 AM Response to Reply #115 |
116. Two hundred eighty. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 02:00 AM Response to Reply #116 |
128. How many people worked in the towers? You're best guess. |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 02:13 AM Response to Reply #128 |
129. Thirty Seven Thousand Six Hundred Twenty Nine. |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 07:52 AM Response to Reply #129 |
130. And what are you basing this guess on? |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-18-05 06:29 AM Response to Reply #130 |
134. The percentage of total available square footage of ... |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-17-05 11:23 AM Response to Reply #129 |
133. test |
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sabbat hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 04:00 PM Response to Reply #6 |
120. WTC |
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slaveplanet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 09:28 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. previous wtc fires |
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carlvs (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 09:54 PM Response to Reply #9 |
12. You Got to be Kidding... |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 06:34 PM Response to Reply #9 |
101. I don't think they are hiding it... |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 11:07 PM Response to Reply #4 |
15. "none of them caught fire"/"catastrophic fires" |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 12:54 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. Supposedly... |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 04:36 PM Response to Reply #16 |
25. Yes, that guy is sampling steel. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 08:39 PM Response to Reply #25 |
31. The sulfur came from gypsum in the wall board. |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 01:29 AM Response to Reply #31 |
36. The Expert Metallurgists Don't Know Where the Sulfur Came From. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 07:05 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. It wasn't explosives or detonators |
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stickdog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 07:43 PM Response to Reply #38 |
65. I HATE disinformation. |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-10-05 07:48 PM Response to Reply #25 |
40. I suppose... |
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stickdog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:35 AM Response to Reply #4 |
57. You are speculating. Where is a shred of EVIDENCE that ANY |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-08-05 09:30 PM Response to Original message |
10. There was a part which landed on a rooftop |
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philb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-09-05 11:01 PM Response to Original message |
33. Mechanical Eng. debunks official story of WTC |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 07:21 AM Response to Reply #33 |
55. It's only regurgitated CT sophistry (n/t) |
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stickdog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:36 AM Response to Reply #55 |
58. That's telling 'em. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:45 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. What kind of reply would you expect? |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-12-05 08:49 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. That only works when your views fit in with their theories. ( n/t ) |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 01:58 PM Response to Reply #60 |
96. LARED, ASME, ME. There you go, am I now more believable |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Aug-14-05 08:08 PM Response to Reply #96 |
107. Is petgoat your real name? |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 05:08 PM Response to Reply #107 |
125. I'm not claiming "petgoat, ASME, ME" gives me credibility n/t |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-15-05 08:00 PM Response to Reply #125 |
127. Is it safe to assume you believe that because |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu May 16th 2024, 11:57 AM Response to Original message |
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