Iraq's "catastrophic success" is intentional

because a pacified Iraq does not justify occupation and the nation's eventual division into ethnic bantustans. And that's what they've wanted from the start.

Chris Floyd on the Pentagon's plan to provoke terror attacks, November 1, 2002:

According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--will carry out secret missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces.

In other words--and let's say this plainly, clearly and soberly, so that no one can mistake the intention of Rumsfeld's plan--the United States government is planning to use "cover and deception" and secret military operations to provoke murderous terrorist attacks on innocent people. Let's say it again: Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and the other members of the unelected regime in Washington plan to deliberately foment the murder of innocent people--your family, your friends, your lovers, you--in order to further their geopolitical ambitions.


Iraqi warning to car drivers, May 11, 2005:

“A few days ago, an American manned check point confiscated the driver license of a driver and told him to report to an American military camp near Baghdad airport for interrogation and in order to retrieve his license. The next day, the driver did visit the camp and he was allowed in the camp with his car. He was admitted to a room for an interrogation that lasted half an hour. At the end of the session, the American interrogator told him: ‘OK, there is nothing against you, but you do know that Iraq is now sovereign and is in charge of its own affairs. Hence, we have forwarded your papers and license to al-Kadhimia police station for processing. Therefore, go there with this clearance to reclaim your license. At the police station, ask for Lt. Hussain Mohammed who is waiting for you now. Go there now quickly, before he leaves his shift work”.

The driver did leave in a hurry, but was soon alarmed with a feeling that his car was driving as if carrying a heavy load, and he also became suspicious of a low flying helicopter that kept hovering overhead, as if trailing him. He stopped the car and inspected it carefully. He found nearly 100 kilograms of explosives hidden in the back seat and along the two back doors.

The only feasible explanation for this incident is that the car was indeed booby trapped by the Americans and intended for the al-Khadimiya Shiite district of Baghdad. The helicopter was monitoring his movement and witnessing the anticipated “hideous attack by foreign elements”.

The same scenario was repeated in Mosul, in the north of Iraq. A car was confiscated along with the driver’s license. He did follow up on the matter and finally reclaimed his car but was told to go to a police station to reclaim his license. Fortunately for him, the car broke down on the way to the police station. The inspecting car mechanic discovered that the spare tire was fully laden with explosives."


Robert Fisk, April 29, 2006:

The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces. "I swear to you that we have very good information," my source says, finger stabbing the air in front of him. "One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: 'Come back in a week.' When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn't get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up."

Impossible, I think to myself. But then I remember how many times Iraqis in Baghdad have told me similar stories. These reports are believed even if they seem unbelievable. And I know where much of the Syrian information is gleaned: from the tens of thousands of Shia Muslim pilgrims who come to pray at the Sayda Zeinab mosque outside Damascus. These men and women come from the slums of Baghdad, Hillah and Iskandariyah as well as the cities of Najaf and Basra. Sunnis from Fallujah and Ramadi also visit Damascus to see friends and relatives and talk freely of American tactics in Iraq.

"There was another man, trained by the Americans for the police. He too was given a mobile and told to drive to an area where there was a crowd - maybe a protest - and to call them and tell them what was happening. Again, his new mobile was not working. So he went to a landline phone and called the Americans and told them: 'Here I am, in the place you sent me and I can tell you what's happening here.' And at that moment there was a big explosion in his car."

Just who these "Americans" might be, my source did not say. In the anarchic and panic-stricken world of Iraq, there are many US groups - including countless outfits supposedly working for the American military and the new Western-backed Iraqi Interior Ministry - who operate outside any laws or rules. No one can account for the murder of 191 university teachers and professors since the 2003 invasion - nor the fact that more than 50 former Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots who attacked Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war have been assassinated in their home towns in Iraq in the past three years.


From testimonies of eyewitnesses near the bombing of Samarra's Golden Dome Mosque, Feb 22, 2006:

My name is Muhammad Al-Samarrai, I own an internet-cafe near the mosque, I sleep in my shop because I am worry about my computers from thieves.

8,30 (evening) joint forces of Iraqi ING and Americans asked me to stay in the shop and don't leave the area.

9,00 (evening) they left the area.

11,00 (evening) they came back and started to patrol the area until the morning.

6,00 (next day morning) ING leave the area.

6,30 Americans leave the area.

6,40 first explosion.

6,45 second explosion.

He confirmed again that the curfew starts at 8,00 (evening) until next day 6,00 (morning), INGs and the Americans will surround and patrol the city all that time.


Basra, Sept 20, 2005:

"Two persons wearing Arab uniforms opened fire at a police station in Basra. A police patrol followed the attackers and captured them to discover they were two British soldiers," an Interior Ministry source told Xinhua. The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.

Here are the two while in Iraqi police custody. Reuters appended a note to each photo over the wire: "ATTENTION EDITORS - THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT REQUESTS THAT THE IDENTIFICATION OF THIS MAN IS NOT REVEALED, EITHER VIA PIXELLATION OF THEIR FACES OR BY NOT PUBLISHING THE PHOTOS."



British forces using tanks broke down the walls of the central jail in the southern city of Basra late Monday and freed two Britons, allegedly undercover commandos, who had been arrested on charges of shooting two Iraqi policemen.

...

The British Defense Ministry spun, but found it difficult to maneuver with its pants about its ankles. "We‘ve heard nothing to suggest we stormed the prison," a defense ministry spokesman in London said. "We understand there were negotiations." When it found some equilibrium, it changed its story to better comport with the undeniables: "We understand that the authorities ordered their release. Unfortunately they weren't released and we became concerned for their safety and as a result a Warrior infantry fighting vehicle broke down the perimeter wall in one place."


Why? Again, a pacified Iraq needn't be occupied and divided, and both have always been the intention.

LA Times, Feb 28, 2006:

The recent explosion of violence in Iraq is forcing a debate inside the Pentagon about whether the U.S. military can proceed with plans to cut the number of troops in Iraq, Defense officials said Monday. The violence came at a crucial time for the U.S. military: Top generals must decide within weeks whether to carry out a long-anticipated reduction in American troops this summer. Threats of civil war in the country have raised questions about the wisdom of a troop drawdown in the next few months.

"One perspective certainly is that with so much turmoil, how can you possibly think about drawing down at this point?" said a senior Defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity....

Daniel Pipes: Civil War in Iraq "not necessarily all that bad for our interests", Mar 2, 2006:

DANIEL PIPES: ...should there be a civil war, it is not necessarily all that bad for our interests. By no means am I endorsing it, by no means do I want one. I'm looking at it in a cool way and saying there are advantages to it. Let me emphasise that does not mean I want it to happen.

TONY JONES: It's just slightly shocking for someone to say that so boldly, that's the point I'm making.

DR DANIEL PIPES: Well I think it's useful to look at it coolly and say, "What are our interests here?" After all, we are looking at Iraq from our national interest point of view. Will we be all that set back by this? I say no. There are negative things, there are positive things.

Civil War "useful" to US interests? Well, do you really believe the idealogues of invasion ever intended to leave Iraq a strong, united country? Its atomization into impotent, submissive bantustans has been on the neoconservative agenda nearly as long as there have been neoconservatives. In 1982, Israeli journalist Oded Yinon wrote:

The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or religiously unique areas such as in Lebanon, is Israel's primary target on the Eastern front in the long run, while the dissolution of the military power of those states serves as the primary short term target.... Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other, is guaranteed as a candidate. Iraq's dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria.... So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi'ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north.

And just today, in the LA Times:

Physical separation is therefore the only way to limit the carnage. That process has begun, to some extent, because the violence is driving out the members of one sect or the other from the many mixed villages, towns and city districts. This is a painful and very costly way of interrupting the cycle of attacks and reprisals, but that is how civil war achieves its purpose of eventually bringing peace.

Two years ago, Robert Fisk wrote "Odd, isn't it? There never has been a civil war in Iraq. I have never heard a single word of animosity between Sunnis and Shias in Iraq":

Al-Qa'ida has never uttered a threat against Shias - even though al-Qa'ida is a Sunni-only organisation. Yet for weeks, the American occupation authorities have been warning us about civil war, have even produced a letter said to have been written by an al-Qa'ida operative, advocating a Sunni-Shia conflict. Normally sane journalists have enthusiastically taken up this theme. Civil war.

...

I think of the French OAS in Algeria in 1962, setting off bombs among France's Muslim Algerian community. I recall the desperate efforts of the French authorities to set Algerian Muslim against Algerian Muslim which led to half a million dead souls.

...

We are entering a dark and sinister period of Iraqi history. But an occupation authority which should regard civil war as the last prospect it ever wants to contemplate, keeps shouting "civil war" in our ears and I worry about that. Especially when the bombs make it real.

..that the attack on Iraq was simply the "breaking of the egg" because once the egg was broken, massive chaos = massive profits for Bushco and more chaos simply = more profits. They desperately had to break the egg. Once broken, the putting together again would simply transfer all America's wealth into the pockets of Bush cronies.

tax would make shooting Bush's cronies pointless.

The Iraqis can see this too.

Don

hmm, it never rains until it pours at Du on certain days

Permanent building beyond excess: The US Embassy in Iraq alone is a 104-acre complex — the size of about 80 football fields.

Makes Saddam's palaces look like bungalows.

Doesn't sound like we're intending to leave anytime sooner than we left South Korea...about 50 years...and STILL counting.

Which is why Blivet is so laissez-faire regarding an "Iraq exit timetable" and said another president would decide on that.

Giant US Embassy: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-04-19-us-embassy_x.htm



Thanks for putting this all together in one place, Minstrel Boy.

The Brit BlackOps Boyz caught with explosives in a civilian car wearing arab clothing who were SO important that the UK army literally busted them out of jail by destroying the hoosegow...

...the Iraqis desperate for work who drove cars to crowded locations for their US handlers, and when the left the cars the autos went up killing many...

...and the curious issue with the bombing of the Shiite mosque, which was a masterful job of demolition pyrotechnics...and done while that area was under relatively strong Shiite control (meaning few Sunni could have wandered about stringing explosives.)

Destabilization was ALWAYS the real game.

Ancient strategy of conquest.

that none of us want to believe
and that we all must reluctantly accept into our new world view.

I was sure this was the case anyway, but every new proof still shakes one up.

Recommended (sadly)

That's what I'm wondering now.

Because knowledge alone isn't enough to make it stop.

x

Just a while back the neocons began floating a new term, "the long war". I believe that they were test marketing it to see how well the concept of never ending war--never ending causualties--would do with their base. If my hunch is correct, then even their base isn't warming to that thought because I haven't been hearing that term lately.



nominated

When death squad john was nominated & CONFIRMED????, I thought the intent would be exposed. Wrong again. But it was clear 2 those of us paying attention. That death squad john left a trail of death & destruction is no surprize. It disgusts me is he now has the authority to hide the federal monies going 2 these back ops, under the lame-ass excuse of 'national security'.

nominated

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

with the place it will be uninhabitable, populated only by oil-well robots and
highly-paid temporary contract workers. There will be no Iraqi nation to claim
ownership of that oil.

the place uninhabitable.

"They turned it into a wasteland and called it peace"--Tacitus

internet cafe owner saw the Iraqi National Guard around the Golden Mosque.

This has almost nothing to do with 9/11, only periperally.

Or is this where all the conspiracy stories go to die?

BINGO!

Or is this where all the conspiracy stories go to die?

This is actual DU policy.

to the latter. :(

False flag operations is what keeps you in a war. The recent upsurge in violence needs to keep momentum. It's not easy going to war, y'know.

Since we are in the Dungeon anyhow.


P.S. R doesn't work anymore, so just imagine that it says 20.

Good accumulation of info.


That's an interesting Pipes comment - "there are advantages to it" (civil war)

And I don't remember hearing about the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"


"It's not a fight for freedom; it's a retreat into darkness."

You have to wonder what all we DON'T hear about.

Someone needs to get the memo.

The war in Iraq, which I think is the subject of this thread, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!!!!!

:banghead:

...for the global elites. They owe allegiance to no country, but to mammon and power. They use governments as ATM's and people as cannon fodder.

It is a well known fact that when people are in a state of fear the rational mind goes into suspension as the fight or flight response kicks in. What better tactic than to keep everyone in perpetual fear with a perpetual war so that you can "catapult the propaganda" into the willing empty pools of allegiance.

Even the so-called "opposition" is bounded by very strict rules of engagement. Why of course we all "support the troops" and of course we need a "strong defense" against the "Muslim extremists."- even as snippets buried on page 22 detail the funding of these same "terrorists" by international intelligence agencies, including our own.

Patriot Act...no problem.
Super Uber Intelligence Agency...gotta protect the Homeland.
Monitor all communication without warrants in violation of the Constitution...We're at war!

And of course...thread moved to an "undisclosed location" to protect the "honor and dignitude" of the important discussions about what Tweety said about Hillary and Bill's marriage. Hey, did you hear that O'Reilly lied again? Or that Condi and Georgie are playing hide the WMD?

Thanks for one of the few substantive posts in quite awhile Minstrel.

They always shoot the messenger...

when I saw a picture of "terrorists" wearing masks and very well covered up, but you could see white skin and pale green eyes on one of them. I wonder how many of the "insurgent" acts are US/British led? This isn't conspiracy theory, they've caught them at it!

Let me add that it is to the benefit of Big Oil that Iraqi petroleum product be kept in the ground. The game is to minimize supply and maximize the value of marketable oil from here on out.

MB if you decide to leave please announce it, I'll be right behind you. This is bullshit

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Jeff, as you know they basically tombstone anyone who (1) asks to be, even conditionally, and (2) publishes correspondence with them.

I really, really hope you stick around.

I don't understand why this has been removed from GD.
Most excellent read and makes all too much sense.

Right from the prestart of the catastrophe of the home invasion of Iraq, when all the 'mistakes' and 'negligence' and 'incompetence' started to pile up... I felt this was not so at all - it was planned to be the way it's panning out.

I don't understand why we can't talk about it in the open.

I know the effort that goes into meaty posts like this and your efforts are appreciated by many posters even if the Overlords here seem to be more concerned with Image than the dissemination of Truth and open discussion. I, too, share your dismay and frustration over the continuing Censorship that occurs on a too-frequent basis.

Nill illigitimi carborundum

is to embrace it. This is the penthouse. Maybe polices could be changed to allow threads in
GD that point to penthouse threads. Rigorous rules could be established that prohibit the
discussion of speculative specifics in the GD, but people would be allowed to recommend
the GD threads so everybody could see a "Hey Guys, Look at This HAARP Thread in the Penthouse!"
thread got 75 recs.

We also need to have a penthouse with more than one room. What is the comet thread doing
in 9/11? Do we get the lizard people too? Roswell? Yetis and Elvis?

the way you think, petgoat.

Thank you for the excellent post, Minstrel Boy. Anytime you want to hit us with another well-researched bombshell, go right ahead...we appreciate it!

actually, I like it here. IMO, 9-11 is the key to everything. When I read in other forums it all seems superfluous. It's all the RESULTS of 911 they are talking about. 911 and election fraud without those we would be looking at an imperfect, but much better, world.

"Kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight"

With appropriate credit to Bruce Cockburn, of course.

It was used as not only a tag line but as inspiration for members of the Innocence Project, of which I have long been a member. And it still inspires me.

(Edit: And yes, I realize that we are opposite sides of the 9/11 divide, but it's still cool to see one of my all time fave lines reproduced here.)

:hi:

and a damn good Lyricist.

What do you think of the original post.

Bruce rocks, and is a damned fine lyricist.

As for the original post, I really cannot comment on it as I have not read the numerous links it cites and, accordingly, cannot assess the validity of the conclusions drawn in the opening post. Some of the sites it cites are not ones that I am predisposed to giving credence to, based on prior experience, but again, I haven't read the specific links in the opening post and probably won't.

None of that takes away from Bruce, though :D



(edit: typo)

Unreported: The Zarqawi Invitation
By Greg Palast
t r u t h o u t | Report

Friday 09 June 2006

(...) Worse, Garner was brokering a truce between Sunnis, Shias and Kurds. They were about to begin what Garner called a "Big Tent" meeting to hammer out the details and set the election date. He figured he had 90 days to get it done before the factions started slitting each other's throats.

(...) In April 2003, Bremer instituted democracy Bush style: he canceled elections and appointed the entire government himself. Two months later, Bremer ordered a halt to all municipal elections including the crucial vote to Shia seeking to select a mayor in the city of Najaf. The front-runner, moderate Shia Asad Sultan Abu Gilal warned, "If they don't give us freedom, what will we do? We have patience, but not for long." Local Shias formed the "Mahdi Army," and within a year, provoked by Bremer's shutting their paper, attacked and killed 21 U.S. soldiers.

The insurgency had begun. But Bremer's job was hardly over. There were Sunnis to go after. He issued "Order Number One: De-Ba'athification." In effect, this became "De-Sunni-fication."

Saddam's generals, mostly Sunnis, who had, we learned, secretly collaborated with the US invasion and now expected their reward found themselves hunted and arrested. Falah Aljibury, an Iraqi-born US resident who helped with the pre-invasion brokering, told me, "U.S. forces imprisoned all those we named as political leaders," who stopped Iraq's army from firing on U.S. troops.

(...) General Garner, watching the insurgency unfold from the occupation authority's provocations, told me, in his understated manner, "I'm a believer that you don't want to end the day with more enemies than you started with."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/060906A.shtml