If you call yourself "progressive" but not "liberal," why is that? (nt)

nt

Everyone has their own idea and preconceived notions as to what all these labels mean. What would DU and the US be like if we skipped all the labels and talked about specific policies, priorities and beliefs?

always seem to be implying that they are somehow better than the rest of us. It's a real turn off.

Their liberalism evaporated in the 70s, a miserable time economically, and they voted for Reagan, giving us all a bad name.

It is very hard to get elected here in NH if you call yourself a Liberal.

Progressive is much better received. Everybody is in favor of progress. It's a good marketing technique, and after all, 90% of getting elected is marketing.

When voters ask me what I mean by progressive, I reply with questions like, "Are you in favor of progress in education?" Once you get them saying yes to a bunch of progress questions, you can follow it up with, "Then you must be a progressive too, don't you think?"

Good politics and good marketing go hand in hand.

...and who would call the bunch of retrograde neocons who are driving this country backwards "progressive"? It's the clearer label in the current climate, and it does make convincing arguments easier. That may change in future environments, at which point I'll use whatever is the most useful, comprehended label at that time.

people - so I insisted on liberal. Now, either works fine with me.

Liberal means one is a member of the Democratic party
A Progressive is a liberal who is not necessarily a member of the Democratic party.

I am a Progressive but not a member of the Democratic party.

consider Donahue a liberal?

people had to keep clarifying that while they were liberals they were not Democrats. Phil Donahue was a liberal who did not support the Democratic candidates. I thought of him as a Progressive.

Yep! That's "progressive" alright. And I mean that literally. :eyes:

if so, okay.

:shrug:

Not too sure why that fact is thrown in the middle of this liberal/progressive argument. I suppose it supports the position he is not a Democrat.

That's what it supports. He says he supports "progressive" ideals. Then votes for someone who does not support progressive ideals.

The specific question was whether Donahue was a liberal or a progressive. Your statement leaves me to presume your answer is if Donahue is a liberal or a progressive, you believe he is a bad one.

Again, okay.

:shrug:

save your games for other kids.

annoying than liberals...I don't think so. "Progressives" are uber liberals. And the vast majority of Americans are not uber liberal. And I don't think they are impressed with the term, "progressive." I'm sure they don't even know what it means. At least they know what liberal means.

Like I said, "progressives" seem to have a haughty air about them. Like they're better than the rest of us. And how did I come to that conclusion? By hanging out on DU and reading and listening to self described, "progressives." And now I'm beginning to hear mainstream politicians use the term. To me it sounds so forced and pandering when they use it. It probably means something different than it means to most progressives anyway. :shrug: The point is, how would we know. It's a very vague descriptor.

Fuck man, it's why I'm here every day, and why I'm out there every day trying to make ours a better world.

I'm anxious to see the responses and learn from them.

The reason we call ourselves Progressive rather than Liberal is because we are afraid of what others will think and say about us and because we are ignorant of what being a Liberal really is. We have let other people define what we are so we try to change what we are in order to avoid their definition.

liberal because of its "negative" association, to the term "progressive" which eventually will have a much more negative association.

Grassroots have clearly and proudly stood up and said they are liberal. That goes for both grassroot Democrats and Progressives.

Because I have little in common with many people calling themselves Liberals.

When a very vocal contingent of people whose positions I had always considered Republicanish and who were backing the neo-Liberal policies of the DLC started calling themselves Liberals, that's when I decided that was not my term.

I want distance, especially in political appellation, between me and people who support, condone or excuse

- the neo-con war against Yugoslavia
- the land theft and oppression taking place in Palestine
- the 12 year war against Iraq and the incessant bombings/horrible sanctions in between the major invasions
- the war against Afghanistan
- WTO, GATT, NAFTA
- ridiculous lip-paying policies like "Don't ask, don't tell"
- non-support of Latin American countries not wanting to be enslaved by US corporate interests

My list is long but the basic gist is I am not part of that group. When that group starts defining themselves as Progressives, people like me will come up with a new term. The circle I move in where people are currently calling themselves Progressives, does not back the imperialistic machinations of our country and wants them to stop. We also believe in more than throwing a few leftover crumbs to the poor of America.

That is my basic reason.

Take the word liberal, run it into the ground. Then turn around and do the same to the word progressive. Could you stick to leftist, which is actually what you are. Then the rest of us can get behind some truly progressive programs and get something done.

Don't you fret Sandnsea. We'll always know where in the spectrum people stand. People can use whatever term they want but stands on the issues will give people away everytime.

:pat on the head:

And your stand on the issues makes you a leftist, not a progressive or a liberal. My stand makes me a liberal Democrat, like it or not. So please, embrace your leftness and claim it loudly and proudly. Don't run away from your true political views.

:kick in the ass:

Funny thing is that in a few years, after you look around wondering where all the voters went, more conservative people will be calling themselves Leftist and once again trying to convince us that "candidate X" is the real thing.

You can change the labels all you want but it won't fool anyone until the day you can explain what's so progressive about things like, you know, using depleted uranium on innocent civilians.

Hilarious.

:big wet open mouth saliva-dripping kiss:

What part of the Democratic platform suggests not responding to an attack on the country? Be anti-every-war all you want, be against every single thing the US does, but it's leftist. You are not, never have been, never will be, anywhere near the base of the Democratic Party. Less than 5% of the entire country is where you sit. That's the way it is. It's fine, takes all kinds and all of that. But don't stick your political views on the rest of the Democratic Party. You're a leftist, what's the problem with claiming your political views as exactly what they are?

:Miss Manners Etiquette Book:

Me, knowing what my political beliefs are, I know why I'm not.

But what's your fuss? The labels don't matter to people like me. We'll keep coming up with new ones to distance ourselves from the business as usual crowd.

Gotta go, my granola's getting lonely ;)

By the way, what did you think about that impressive Feingold win in Wisconsin? Pretty good for a candidate who ran on what you consider a Leftist platform, wouldn't you agree? Seems he reached more than the 5% you label "Leftists" and stomped his Republican opponent by providing the voters with a clear alternative. It may be time to rethink either your labels your numbers.

He supported the invasion of Afghanistan, for one. He didn't propose single payer, for another. He's a liberal Democrat, a progressive Democrat. You're a leftist. And if the labels don't matter, then be a leftist because it would help the rest of us define the Democratic Party.

And I know a little bit about how these Democrats win in their home states. DeFazio, my very liberal Congressman, wins with "As Independent As Oregon". Really running with the liberal thing there, huh? The truth is, at the local level, most people have no clue what their Congressman is doing. They can also target their campaign to carefully avoid hot topics, like guns and abortion and gays, and RUN AWAY from the leftie wing of the Democratic Party. The Democrat in Oklahoma almost won, but he was completely pro war. To try to compare local races to national races is a mistake. It's more helpful to remember that we've won 7 Presidential campaigns out of 34, and only when the Republicans have completely tanked the economy or the south joins in. Mainstream Americans are status quo kind of people.

because as labels go, this one is clear: I stand for Progress. This is at the core of my convictions, and I adapt "liberal"/"leftist" ideas because I believe that they aid our progress as a nation, as a society, and as human beings. I also go by "liberal", "anarchist", "pinko commie bastard", and several others I don't care to name in polite conversation. I'm not into labels, and my policy is "if the shoe fits, wear it".

and whether you like it or not, that's a connotation that is pointless and distracting.

Whether the connotation should exist is irrelevant.

It IS the connotation now.

We need to get away from ALL the old connotations.

It pisses me off that neo-con fascists call themselves "conservatives". They are not.

This is one of the reasons I think now is the time for a whole new party, one that simply recreates ALL the frameworks and burns away all the old connotations and baggage of both parties.

We need to do an end-run around the existing bullshit.

I don't like the word "progressive" either.

I consider myself a "truth-ist".

that Democrats and other liberals (and yes that's what I'll call them/us) have given up on the use of the word "liberal".

Using the word progressive is a cop out, and I'd prefer to call myself liberal, not because liberal ideals are not progressive, but because I've heard conservatives and other RWers use the word "progressive" to describe themself. After all, no one is going to consider themself a "regressive". But on the other hand, no conservative or RWer would ever consider themself a liberal.

Ultimately labels are pretty much worthless, but I'm tired of people running away from the word liberal.

i.e. economic, etc.

Somebody NOT LIKE US! Whatever US are like I don't really know. I find that many people proud to be CONSERVATIVE actually agree with what I would consider liberal values but Rush Limbaugh has so turned it into a perjurotive that if you are called a Liberal you almost automatically get dismissed. About the only candidate able to avoid being poisioned by being called one was Clinton, and that was because of his personal communication skills and excellent campaign staff.

.......to quit using the word 'liberal' simply because Gingrich and Limbaugh and their kind have put the smear on. As a matter of fact, I'm even more proud to be a liberal when these cretins are so afraid of it that they attempt to warp its public perception.

I don't mind being called progressive, either, since it clearly sets me in opposition to all these cavemen who want to recreate the dark ages.