Do you think Hillary Clinton can win in 2008 ?

That is, if she is running against a serious Republican candidate like Bill Frist or the former mayor of New York City? Also, do you guys think she possesses the "charisma" or "media savvy" to be a widely popular candidate?

I was wrong regarding her Senate run and could be wrong here too.

Undecided. It is too early to tell. If the country is finally up in arms over Bush they might be willing to vote for any Dem--and especially one whose last name is Clinton.

anybody could win.

Let's see...everyone here thought Dean would win the nomination and that Bush would go down in flames.

DU is out of touch.

If DU is so out-of-touch, why in the world did you join?

Right wing lunatics who get their marching orders from the pulpit and from the radio? Lunatics who vote values and live sin? Is that who we are out of touch with? DU is home to many Dean supporters, and Kerry supporters and Clark supporters and on and on an on. Its a very nice place to call home. No one proposing to use the constitution as a weapon at this sight.

as long as you realize you are fringe. As for predictions, you may have a point there.

....I would certainly say "Not mainstream". Not by a long shot. Hell, it's not even the mainstream of the Democratic party. Look at how moderates are made-out to be anti-Christs around here.

Not totally at least. I'm somewhat of a moderate myself, but I love the multiplicity of DU. Hell, it is a large part of the reason I come here because I am able to see such a variety of Democratic view points. I have felt vilified at times for suggesting a more middle-of-the-road approach, and God knows I have been ignored for that reason... Yeah, I think you may be right... Let me get back to you -- if I remember -- on this one...

:freak:

if they think that the "go along to get along" attitude vis a vis the Fascists will do any good. The Republicans are the ideological children of the Nazis and to appease them is to only make them stronger. The fascists will not compromise with us, they must be fought every step of the way. To give in to their agenda is to accept defeat. Most people in this country are moderate by nature and there is nothing wrong with that. However, when the Right Wing have openly stated that their goal is the destruction of democracy in the US, and our physical destruction as Democrats. A line in the sand must be drawn against these killers. Even the moderates will have to pick a side. Be either part of the problem or part of the solution.

This is the second time I have read a post accusing some DUer's of being "out of touch" If they don't care for Hillary. Is there an agenda here? I was a staunch Kerry supporter from the beginning and a party officer. I don't know anyone in my state party who would be pleased with a Hillary candidacy.

Everyone I have talked to is convinced that running Hillary would be an absolute disaster. I have talked to politically active people like myself and other everyday yellow dog Democrats.

In fact, I believe that was a media myth.

If things don't get better in Iraq, and the economy stays slow, a paper plate could defeat the GOP candidate. Keep in mind K/E got 49%, and many moderates will likely hit a tipping point. I do NOT wish Iraq to get worse, nor do I hope the economy stays bad, but if the Democratic candidate will win and win big.

Hold on as I am not for Hillary but she could win.

1. She is polarizing but not as polarizing as Bush. 65% of the electorate would be willing to give her a chance.

2. She is a centrist and her voting record is centrist. Not good for the Democratic Primary's but great for a National Election.

3. MOST swing voters are completely in line with her on the issues.

4. Her name recognition will get her probably a million votes alone.

5. Her connection with Bill will get her a lot of votes.

6. She openly reaches out to the center and right.

7. All those in our base who hate her will be behind her 100% in November of 2008.

8. She is very smart and answers questions with depth and knowledge.

9. She graduated with a better GPA than Bill.

However, I think she is a risk and I would prefer someone else.

I was not necessarily agreeing with your assessment, but I could see where you were coming from; that is, until I got down to number nine. Do you REALLY think that one's GPA has a dammed thing to do with winning the presidency? If you do, then you'd better have another look at our current POTUS -- he definitely ain't no model of a high-achiever in scholastic endeavors.

If she wins the primaries in 2008 of course most will be behind her, but not if she continues walking the line that she has been. That is precisely why I do not feel that she stands a chance of winning against someone like Wesley Clark... But I like the way you think -- save the GPA remark.

:crazy:

but because he is the best candidate I have seen in my short life of 35 years. He is too good to be true.

However, he does have dirt in his past that the Neo-Cons and their media whores will be able to use. I was one of his county coordinators here in Oklahoma, and in case you don't remember, he won here! Either way, I am hoping that we can draft him again this time. I believe one of his handicaps was that he came into the game late, but I think this time around -- if he runs and I pray God he does -- he can and will win the nomination. I strongly believe that he's our best hope in 2008 given what I know of the other potential candidates. However, I am still a big supporter of John Kerry, so if he were to run in 2008 I would be hard pressed to decide between the two of them. Nonetheless, right now Clark has my support over Kerry because I know that he will fight. Did you see his joint interview on CNN in 2003 with Bob Dole? Dole tried to call him out and say that Kerry was the better leader and officer -- or something to that effect -- and Clark actually responded with passion and intelligence. (You know, what Kerry SHOULD have done after the fucking Swift Boat Liars... :eyes:)

The take a kernel of truth and turn it into some big brou-ha-ha.
He never supported teaching terror at the School of Americas. In fact, he was instrumental in cleaning it up.
He didn't have jack shit to do with Waco. The FBI borrowed the tanks at the base and he was told to allow it to happen.
He didn't try to start a third war and Gen. Mike Jackson has said as such. In fact, Jackson has said he greatly respects Clark.
And so forth and so on.

I think, right now, is the time to start busting the media's chops on this. Whether he runs or not, I don't want him villified for the media's laziness and lies. All us Clarkies should be working to do this.

Oh, and did you see Clark on Scarborough the other night? He's learned how not to let the media Bushpuppies run all over him. He just got more and more forceful with Squint until he got his point across. Of course, Clark could beat the living shit out of "dead intern boy," but that's another matter.

Cannot stand H. Clinton and after the past few days of voting for the Republican agenda (Rice, faith-based social solutions), she is making things even worse. I disagree that Republicans will vote for her. They hate the Clintons. HATE THEM! She is a Senator which I think is never going to work for getting a candidate into POTUS. No more Senators. No matter how good they are, no more. We need them in the Senate anyway,...oh what, no we don't...I forgot most are voting Repug anyway.

Clark...oh that would be great!

transformation she is hopeless. She is boring, a terrible speaker, politically all over the map and frankly if the Democrats are stupid enough to nominate her I might consider voting for Mc Cain ......just kidding, but I probably wouldn't be writing any checks.

-- I realize the woman could surprise me, but at this juncture I think her chances of surviving the Iowa caucuses are slim to none.

I think Clark and Edwards will both outflank her demographically in Iowa and that she'll have to claw her way to third place through Richardson. Then on to New Hampshire, and if she isn't gone by then, she will be right afterward.

A woman president? I'm wildly for it, but not this woman. In the next 3 years I think we'll hear more from California's great senator Barbara Boxer. THAT woman president.

...Unfortunately.

Our women (And men) will vote for a woman, but their women (and men) will not...EVER! It's that simple. Presidential winners ALWAYS require cross-over votes.

Throw in the fact that she's HILLARY and it's even harder for us.



The first minority President will also be a conservative for the same reasons.

Also, Republicans can get away with nominating a handicapped president. But allow the Dems to nominate some gimp and you can kiss all those crossover votes good-bye. The first handicapped president will definitely be a conservative.

What if she ran as a snowball? Would she have a chance then?

:crazy:

I think we'd do better to just vote on who we personally want to see in the job, instead of trying to second guess who we should pick based on electability. The person who gains the most votes - the person most people want to see in office - that person by default is the most electable.

All the analysis of who is or isn't connecting to people, who is or isn't electable, who will or won't win in the red states, is about as accurate as the exit polls, imo. It's a combo of WH-generated talking points, and media echo chamber, designed to make us perceive strengths or weaknesses that may not even be there.

I think Hilary can turn Republican women over to our side. This doesn't mean we don't have better people to run.

...no FRIGGING way. 2012? I don't know. 2016? I still don't know.

If we want to take back the country (if there is a country left to take back in 2008), we won't be doing it with an H.C. ticket.

I could not agree with you more -- it is not about getting the most electable person either. We also need someone that we know will fight to restore this country to its former prestige, and someone who will not be a polarizing figure. We need strong and decisive leadership. We need a leadership whom the moderates of America can unite behind, because they are going to be way sick of Iraq and war by then. Someone who voted for the war and has never TRULY been vocally against it will not win. We will need someone who will be perceived as being capable of cleaning up the mess that this idiot Bush is surely going to leave. (If he ever leaves office...)

Polls on DU mean absolutely nothing in the real world.

DUers know a lot about issues, but most have no clue about how people vote or why.

knows even less. They lost.

but let's not go there...

The democratic party lost. The presidency and congress.

Either one could be POTUS if they had been coached by Carville, Begala, and Lockhardt.

Or, at least I knew he wouldn't garner much once the election headed South and West.
As a Clarkie, I'm saddened that I didn't pay more attention to Iowa, but, Clark was in New Hamsphire, so my attention was there.

as they did in N.Y. because she is anything but a "polished" politician possessing "media savvy" or "charisma," but as long as they do, she doesn't need it. If there is a 3rd party candidate to draw conservative votes away from the Republican (like if Guliani would be the nominee,) then she could win. If she has to go head to head with a credible Republican that does not divide the Republican party vote, I have doubts.

I agree that there is going to be a lot of in-fighting between the Repubs.

Bush can't please everyone. We are starting to see more Repubs speaking out against him. The RR aren't getting their way.

Just like not everyone who leans Dem always votes Dem, not everyone who leans Repub always votes Repub.

Bush is going to destroy a lot during his second term. And when all is said and done, I think there will be a decent number of Repubs that will be unsure of whether to vote Repub next time around. (My mother in law is one of these, and is realizing this just now. She wants Obama, but I'm sure she'd vote Hillary given the gender and we've not yet had a female President.)

That being said, I think that there could be a decent number of right-leaning women that would vote for her in hopes of a female being in office. I think a good number of the so-called minorities would vote for her. If a female can win, then a "minority" could win.

I don't always agree with Hillary, but I would vote for her in a heartbeat. Two of several reasons I've thought up being... she is a woman... and she will have Bill by her side.

I've also pondered... perhaps, some of the Bush-lite crap she has been spewing, is merely to gain some support from the center for a future run? Could be wishful thinking, I am well aware of that. But as far as I'm concerned, all politicians are sneaky, and that may be just what she's doing. She can't *just* play to us, she's got to play to the center as well.

Anywho, just my thoughts on the matter.

did that, she could win a national election. But does she have the guts to put up that kind of fight? I honestly can't tell. She has motive, means, and opportunity, but so far she hasn't shown much of a pulse.

Is is good for the country to replace 8 years of Bush with 4 years of the Clinton sleaze and triangulation?

not a mere change in personnel, which is what the Clintons represent.

and we also have outstanding people like Wes Clark that will do a lot better than Hillary.

is all I'm saying, in which she should win, meaning I'd want her to. That would also be possible under the right circumstances.

She can win.

She is doing all the right things.

First of all, she knows how to win elections.

You want to know why she is talking about faith based initiatives? You want to know why she is moderating her stance on abortions?

Because she's fucking brilliant. That's why.

She will clean house with the black vote in the primary.

There will not be much of a competitive primary because black voters make up 30% of primary voters. They are the democratic base and guess what? They are socially conservative! They like faith based iniatives and more money coming to black churches! They aren't crazy about abortion either or gay marriage and they hold deep respect for the "first black president" Bill Clinton.

Electing Hillary will give black people a "two for one."

Hillary will win the black vote and she will win it big and that will win her the primary.

As far as the general election, never underestimate Bill and Hillary Clinton.

They are brilliant triangulators. And fight dirtier than the republicans.

All they care about is winning elections and that is what is necessary. Not to be beholden to ideology, to do whatever it takes, to say whatever is necessary to win...

I have the utmost respect for the Clinton's. They are proven winners and have the "star" appeal and cult of personality that is necessary to win in this day and age.

By hook or crook, they will find a way to win.

It's why repubs fear them so.

However I believe that jack frost could walk a mile in hell, before the democrats would fight dirtier than the republicans. Especially after our last crappy Rove romp that we had for an election.

She will have the same problem as Kerry. She voted for the war, she voted for tax cuts, she votes with most of the repugnantcans. How is she different than a moderate repug

Or maybe Zell Miller. :eyes:

Seriously, I'm very disgusted with the Senate vote today, but remember that she's not the only one. There are more senators that deserve our invective.

She certainly deserves the criticism, but I wonder how much of the Hillary hate is based upon the Right-wing "satanization" of her as a public figure. Otherwise, why is Senator Clinton such a lightning rod?

I've noticed that people who try to predict what will happen are generally full of it.