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Bush is saying this economy is better than the Clinton economy....

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:17 AM
Original message
Bush is saying this economy is better than the Clinton economy....
Who could actually believe that? In his speech, he is saying it is better than the 70's, 80's, or 90's? They had some good numbers with the employment figures last month so they want to brag about it.

But, if they are gonna brag, you would think they would find something worth bragging about. When one looks at the job numbers closely, we see mostly retail and low-paying jobs. Perhaps that is good for Republicans but that is not good for the rest of us.

The Democrats should call them on this BS immediately. Are people going to believe Bush or their own lying eyes? Those that have their eyes open can see what is happening. They can see the jobs hemorrhaging overseas. They can see the huge debt and interest payments on that debt. That is not the sun coming over the horizon - that is a dark cloud.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. The people are beginning to believe their eyes, finally.
We see this in Bush's poll numbers. The spell has been broken. From here on out, every time he opens his mouth, it will be bad for him, since people now see the disconnect between his speeches and reality.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. He speaks for what, the top 2%?
Gleeful pigs rolling in their own shit!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. most of the jobs are in the South rebuilding the hurricane damaged areas
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. If you're gonna lie, lie big
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. just because he says it
it doesn't make it true

under Clinton - I only needed ONE job to pay bill, save a little and have a bit extra to spend

under bush - I need TWO jobs just to make ends meet, forget saving anything and no extras - and my main job pays more than my main job did under Clinton

just ordered 150 gallons of heating oil - 2.13/gallon - total bill $319.00 -- that's going to take 2 months to pay off under bush* (glad we put up 6 cords of wood for the wood stove to supplement heating this winter or I'd need a 3rd job)

gas is up to $2.19 a gallon - 10-cents jump in a week. It this keeps up I will need a THIRD job to pay for the gas to get to my other 2 jobs - but I'll save on heating oil since I will never be home





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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. he lives in an alternate reality
:shrug:
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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. Selective statistics
If you have New York Times Select - check out , especially
--snip--
It should have been a good year for American families: the economy grew 4.2 percent, its best performance since 1999. Yet most families actually lost economic ground. Real median household income - the income of households in the middle of the income distribution, adjusted for inflation - fell for the fifth year in a row. And one key source of economic insecurity got worse, as the number of Americans without health insurance continued to rise.
-snip-
Behind the disconnect between economic growth and family incomes lies the extremely lopsided nature of the economic recovery that officially began in late 2001. The growth in corporate profits has, as I said, been spectacular. Even after adjusting for inflation, profits have risen more than 50 percent since the last quarter of 2001. But real wage and salary income is up less than 7 percent.

There are some wealthy Americans who derive a large share of their income from dividends and capital gains on stocks, and therefore benefit more or less directly from soaring profits. But these people constitute a small minority. For everyone else the sluggish growth in wages is the real story. And much of the wage and salary growth that did take place happened at the high end, in the form of rising payments to executives and other elite employees. Average hourly earnings of nonsupervisory workers, adjusted for inflation, are lower now than when the recovery began.
-snip-


My "2 cents" - The massive deficits are providing a Keynesian high.

My wife's "2 cents" - Health insurance - fewer people are covered, and those who are have to pay much more.

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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. It IS better! Its wonderful!
....if you are rich.:eyes:
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. and the deficit is the big one......
that's liable to wreck not only your economy, but the world's economy if it isn't checked. The CEO's of rich corporations have forgotten where the money comes from, I think......
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not only was the ecomomy better with Clinton there was no deficit!
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GregW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh really?
Then why am I earning $80K less than I was this time six years ago?

:shrug:
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mattomjoe Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Every time the right wingers trot out stats that seemingly support their
policies, I'm reminded of the "American Beauty" tagline: "Look closer."
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. BWAHAHAH!
:rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. he doesn't govern by numbers.....
or is that polls?
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. It is - except for
the unemployment rate, living wage jobs, the deficit, the debt, interest rates, consumer debt, home ownership, jobs with benefits, and spending power. On all other fronts, Smirkonomics is a big winner.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Latest job numbers seasonal temp help ?
What proof is he providing, other than his typical "cuz I said so" blather?
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. that is such a joke
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 01:20 PM by Blue_Roses
I'm listening now and he is reading the speech. He doesn't even know the state of the economy. He reads what the speech writers give him:eyes:

He doesn't bother to say what the jobs of the 200,00 plus were--low paying and seasonal jobs. It's all talk and propaganda.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. it is, if you're a millionaire.
it isn't if your a laborer.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. one month does not make a trend or a success story...
especially during the holiday season.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. How much of the US Debt got paid off did you say?
Clinton was paying it down on his shitty economy so you must have it close to paid off by now.....:shrug:
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. Don't buy the hype in the "more people employed" B.S. line

Bush likes to say we have more people employed today than ever before in history. No shit. That's true every year unless employment skyrockets due to the increasing number of people entering the job market based on an increasing population.
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. exactly! ... an increasing population of MOSTLY
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 07:53 PM by Quakerfriend
illegal immigrants.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bush is so ignorant, so out of touch, he doesn't know any better.
He believes what they tell him, and they tell him he's doing great on the economy.

This economy is not good. It's good for about a third of the country, maybe 40%. It sucks for everyone else, and it's getting suckier exponentially.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. I wonder what color the sky is
in his little world...?:crazy:
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. My home economy would look great if I didn't have to pay my bills.
Everything would be brand spanking new, landscaping well-tended by paid staff, etc., if I could just foist off the payments on some unknown persons (or future generation).

THAT's why his numbers temporarily look good.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. Damn, I'm beginning to wonder if Bush is
totaly delusional and believes this shit or he is just a pathological liar! I used to believed the latter but lately, I think the man has really gone off his rocker!!! He seems sooooo medded out or on some sort of booze/pill binge. I thought he couldn't get any scarier but......
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Mr. Cigar Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. Can I be adopted by someone
who is doing great in this economy, because I sure the hell am not. Funny thing, comparing today's economy and during the Clinton administration. Last weekend, I cleaned out my filing cabinet. I pulled out pay stubs and tax returns from now, and from 1996. Funny thing, I am now making a whole whopping $5 more an hour now, but my take home pay is actually less than it was in 1996. Another funny thing in 1996 I received a $1895 tax return, last year I got a whopping $386. Add that to huge housing cost (Portland is becoming damn expensive in some areas), the price of food, health care(oops wait, don't have that) utilities, oh shit I could go one forever. So could some bored rich person adopt me, 35 yrs old, works 2 full time jobs, 8 year old son free to wealthy household.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. welcome to DU, Mr. Cigar! This probably isn't the best place
to find wealthy patrons :-), but your point is sad but true. Economists say that real income of the average American has been DEclining in the past five years. But funny, Bush and his minions never seem to mention that.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Hi Mr. Cigar!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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catmother Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. is that why my husband's employer stopped giving out bonusus
that were anywhere between $20,000 - $40,000 a year?
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chicagiana Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well it depends ...

Bush has been known to Cherry pick in the past. And if he means that the economy is better than "some times" in the 90s (like his father's tenure) than it's a perfectly "accurate" claim. Though it is farsical.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. Only in bizarroworld.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bush**'s entire presidency is based on..
... spin, lies and propaganda. He is so used to lying his ass off and having Americans buying it hook, line and sinker - he just can't stop.

Not so many people are buying it anymore.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. 62% of Americans don't think the economy is "A O.K".
The people know how the economy is by what's left in their wallets and bank accounts, not by *'s talkingpoints.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
33. I wish the MSM, that just allows his proclamations about the economy
to hang out there, would actually interview some of the "real" people out here.

MY personal economy is not improving. In fact, except for the value of my home (which is more a product of my geography than the economy), I'm worth less now than I was when he became president.

I'm NOT doing better. And I don't know of anyone who IS doing better, economically.

I don't care how many people are working...if they used to make $20/hour and now they're making $10/hour, then those people are in very sorry economic shape.

And the media does nothing to actually report on this.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Relying on Americans' short memories
Edited on Tue Dec-06-05 01:38 PM by depakid
and continual propaganda from the corporate media.

Bottom line is that it's going to take a severe downturn- if not a major collapse, to wake most of the sheeple up. Let's just hope that when they do, they'll remember all of those people who have been lying to them.
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. I think he's right -- joke warning --
If you take a magnifying glass and pull it back far enough to inverts the image after all. Either that or he doens't understand that you read right to left or maybe rightside up.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. What!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
39. Clinton had 8 years...32 quarters...of steady growth..DOW went from 2,700
to 11,500....since Bush took over, DOW ent down and came back to where its at now between 10,000 and 11,000...The Growth is in Dreams.....Bush has 1 quarter, at its stretching it, since coming to the Head Office 5 years ago, and he is bragging....Damn, any Lie in a Storm I guess.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
40. because if you don't live in the "reality-based community" ...
You can say stuff like that. (And then you can flounce out of the room and ride off on your unicorn.)
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
41. He's addressing his elite base....
the top 2%...
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
42. yea, for him ... other than that we know that * is full of crap.
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tirechewer Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-05 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
43. They are the masters of the Big Lie
Bush always does things like this. I read a quote from an adviser of his, given anonymously as most of these quotes are, that Bush and his administration do not have to "live in reality". They are "building an empire", and their reality is the reality of the empire they are building.

In other words, our reality is not their touchstone. Only what they say is happing is real to them. I have heard of children having an imaginary friend whom they talk to and play with and who is real to them, but the idea of a President having an imaginary "empire" where he is in complete control of creating his own reality is terrifying.

Fortunately, most of us do not share Bush's empire. We can see that things are not what he says they are. We are the ones who are actually experiencing this economy. We see things pretty clearly. For a long time the majority of Americans did buy Bush's reality. Now it's only a small minority, and you have to wonder about them. What in the world have they been slipping into their coffee.

Oh well. As President Hoover once said, "prosperity is just around the corner." We all know where that went. This one will go the same way, I'm afraid.
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