What will it take for you to support Hillary for president?

I must say I am very disappointed and angry that Hillary voted to make flag-burning illegal. Though I am not at all surprised she voted that way. She has been leaning towards the right far too much. The only way I could bring myself to support her as a candidacy is if she admits she was wrong to support the war in Iraq and to move back to the progressive "Democratic" wing of the Democratic Party. She won't be getting my support if she doesn't move away from the Vichy Democrat stance she has been taking.


What will it take for you, those who feel like I do, for you to back Hillary in 2008?


John

Dueling quotes:

"I support federal legislation that would outlaw flag desecration, much like laws that currently prohibit the burning of crosses, but I don't believe a constitutional amendment is the answer."

Hillary Clinton, July 2005


“I favor protection of the flag, but I do not favor a constitutional amendment. A constitutional amendment should be passed only in very rare circumstances... I do believe the flag ought to be protected, I don’t think you should amend the (U.S.) Constitution without a deep purpose. Protecting the flag is certainly a deep purpose, but I don’t believe you can amend the Constitution for that.”

Howard Dean, January 2002

I won't vote for her in the primary, but if she gets the nod, I will support her 120%.

get nomination. Actually, I never have liked her all that well. I prefer my politians a little more off the cuff, not so studied, not so "political".:-(

She won't be my first choice, but once she gets the nomination (and I think she will), then whadya gonna do?

I'm seeing a pattern.

n/t

I'm supposed to vote for her? Look, cross burnings are NOT illegal on your own property if you don't violate present fire codes. For example, in neighborhoods that ban burning garbage or grass, can't burn crosses/or flags either. There are ALREADY laws on the books that ban you burning something on another's property, that's what trespass and arson laws are for. So basically she supports a law that absolutely is either completely unconstitutional or a law that is toothless from the get go, because there are already laws that prohibit illegal burning(Arson, trespassing, vandalism) of stuff.

I don't like the sight of burning crosses or flags either, and would push for even tougher penalties on EXISTING laws when it is done on another's property, but that doesn't mean that I would ban it as a form of expression altogether, that is unconstitutional and would REQUIRE a constitutional amendment. I would think that a Senator of all people would understand that.

ON EDIT: Just to clarify, Dean was more or less, making an opinion on flag burning, but I'm not that great a supporter, because I think his position is stupid too. However, he, at least, didn't call for supporting federal legislation like Hillary did, that is even more stupid.

* He supported a VT state legislature decision voicing support for protecting the flag and suggesting Congress pass a constitutional amendment as an option in providing such protection. Specifically, the resolution urged Congress to "take whatever legislative action it deems necessary and appropriate to honor and safeguard the United States Flag."

* As Joe Conason explained, "... he brokered a legislative resolution that urged Congress to "take whatever legislative action it deems necessary and appropriate to honor and safeguard the United States Flag." While a bit vague, that sounded much like an endorsement of the Constitutional amendment.

Around that time, Dean rather pompously declared that politicians should declare their positions on the flag issue before voters went to the polls in 2002. That requirement didn't apply to Dean himself, as he "coyly" told the Rutland Herald, because he wasn't on the ballot that year. So now that he is running for president, the candidate who prides himself in speaking bluntly should explain the limits of his support for the First Amendment -- in plain English."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/11/14/friday/
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/850.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20040313075622/http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/40830.html

I'm supporting whoever is nominee....

Hillary did

The VT legislature voiced support for a constitutional amendment. Dean supported the legislature.

if she wins the nomination; however, I sincerely hope Wes Clark is victorious in the primaries. I just received by Clark bumper stickers and will pass them out to interested supporters who approach me.

Please? :)

So .... ?

The whole reason they want a Constitutional Ammendment is because it is a Constitutional right and they wish to pass laws to take away that right. By her wanting to do this shows me she does not have a solid regard for the Constitution.

I will support her. I prefer her to remain in the Senate where she's a strong Democratic voice.

We need to bombard her with our feelings.

they run, Rush,Hannity, or O, Lielly against her. Or any other of the famous hatemongers.

just kidding....of course I will support her.

and say bring the troops home now!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to seem flippant. I forgot where I was.
But which is more likely?

That's just the trouble. She should have come out automatically and regretted the fact she supported war and continues to support this illegal occupation of Iraq. Can any Democrat worth their salt support her and support her stance on Iraq? No way!

"Not even if they gave me a $1,000.00 bill wrapped in Angelina Jolie's panties and paid my mortgage for 20 years." Seems to fit.

Although, I might consider that offer. Glad it's a secret ballot. Oh, wait...

:beer:

not after what the Clintons did to destroy the democratic party and the countries perception of it through their triangulation politics. Winning at all costs is NOT a long terms strategy. I will vote third party. There are so many folks that will simply stay home.

Sorry, I just can't imagine the democratic party being that stupid to nominate a DLCer once again.

presadent material , no way would she get my vote , she has been a yes women for the gop , she has no back bone to make the kind of thinking that is needed for this job , just like little w , he should be home and not in our house

...withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq would get my attention. She'd need to throw in a big mea culpa and explanation for her warmongering, too. I'll not hold my breath waiting, if you don't mind.

like Cheney or any of the neocons. Someone who is out to make this into a facist state. Personally, I don't see Hillary as representing the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, and I will support someone more progressive in the primaries.

i will stick with the party and vote for her.

Cheney or Delay would have to run against her. I suppose at that point I would be willing to vote for her - but I would take just about anyone else. Unfortunately I still harbor resentment over the fact that she was INSTALLED in NY. I hated the way she just bought a house and over night spoke for me and my fellow New Yorkers.

For me to vote for Hillary now that she is wrapping the flag around herself with the stupid Flag Burning Wedge Diversion, it would take a lobotomy, preformed by OldLeftieLawyer using a rusty Swiss Army knife.

Used to have a lot of respect for Hillary, but she has blown it. Do not nominate that woman unless you want assurance of a GOP win, possibly without the help of election fraud. She is the one they wanna run against. Don't go there.

edit: typo

she was elected, I know, I voted for her!

Most New Yorkers like our carpetbaggers.

Sounds like you canceled my vote by voting for little Ricky.

it was the one time in my voting age ability that I refused to vote. She was the greater of the two I admit, but still I honestly wished we could have had a true New Yorker to back us. She is from Arkansas let her represent them.

While I support Clinton over Bush any day of the week, I wish that she would represent real issues like her husband did. Issues that are important - like the environment or the economy. Not this bullshit video-games-are-violent-rarraaaaa and flag burning is evil. I do not care about such things, the environment and the economy furnish such languid luxuries.

Though again I still harbor resentment that money can buy you a house in one of the most affluent areas and people will vote for you because of this. It wasn't democracy as much as it was a perversion of money. Again for all of you Junior Hitlers I mean Hillarys' I like her over the options but the way she came to her position leaves me looking for more well - credibility.

They all buy their seats. Right or wrong, that is how it is done.

a big fat frickin' bribe.

whalerider

and the absence of any true democratic candidate

even for Senator again and I live in NYC. I have supported her until she just totally destroyed any possible trust or faith I could ever have in her again.

She was a Goldwater Girl Republican once and she is a Bush-Cheney-Rove-Special Interest Girl Republican now.

I think Condi Rice is scum. I think Hillary is even lower than Rice.

Fcuk Hillary very much.

Even then, I don't think I'd vote for her.

To answer the OP

Hell freezing over.

If I wanted a republican lite for president I would join the repuke party.

other than that I'm not saying

I have voted a straight Democratic ticket in every election since 1976 but if Hillary gets the nomination, I'll be voting third party in 2008.

:hi:

Unless there is a more palatable 3rd party, or better yet, independent candidate with a legitimate chance of winning.

But then I would probably vote Repuke

many many many Euros.

the level of fundraising that's going on right now is astronomical - I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she manages to clean up on campaign fundraising to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars - enough to fund a small war.

I've got no sense that there will be any point for anyone else to even bother tossing in their hat - she's got it pretty locked up i think. she and her people don't give a rats ass about how you and i intend to vote, or even if we do at all.

she's going for the repuke voters and that machine is pretty well greased already, and that campaign is at least two years away.

i think TIME magazine might make Bill Clinton Person of the Year and if they do, that will go a long way to kick off the season.

Penance, a few rosaries and novenas.

I seriously doubt she'll ever shed her "do whatever is politically expedient" mentality. Also I doubt she'll ever get away from corporatism. So while there are some things she could do to win me over, she never will.

...however, most are willing to vote for her eventual nomination.

Which is exactly why she and other Democrats don't care if they support you.

A "mea culpa" now...after the dead are dead...the money has been swindled...and Iran now will make the women of Iraq and Americans lives a dismal prospect. Now, a "mea culpa" solves everything. Okay.

My vote is my own. The Clintons will have all the money, the insider leverage, and the stick of "a vote against them is a vote for the evil ones" but they don't own my vote.

Note: I vote with a #2 pencil and my vote is handcounted. It's still mine. If the Democrats want it, then they need to quit playing games.

my thoughts exactly.

How is it someone with so little experience gets her shot before so many other people? Why Hillary before Boxer? Boxer has stood-up for us more often...same with Russ in WI.

She is getting the nod because of star-power, and because the Clinton's bring in the money.

If that is what matters to the powers that be, then they can fuck off. The last election I voted for a pro war, pro Patriot Act candidate because I fell for the ABB propaganda...and all it got me was Bush.

Not again!

I am a life long Democratic voter, but 2008 will be my "tough love" year for the Dems. As so many of them, including HRC, lurch further and further to the right, dragging the party along with them, I am only left with my voice, my wallet, and my vote to let them know just how displeased I am.

I plan on letting them know loudly just how pissed off I am.
I plan on placing funds directly into the coffers of liberal/progressive/sane Democrats who uphold the modern traditions of the Democratic Party I love and believe in.
And, if the nominee is someone like HRC or someone else I simply cannot in good conscious vote for, I will write in my choice or vote third party.

The Democratic Party needs to be pulled up by the shorts hairs, as my Grandma used to say.

And 2008 is the year I am going to do it.

She won't get the nomination, no matter how much the Repubs want it.

the Repugs would salivate at the chance to tear Hillary to pieces and divert attention away from the real issues. If the Dems are stupid enough to do that, I will not support them in any way. I hope they're letting Hillary serve as a diversion right now while they formulate a winning strategy. I think the Right is whipping up this 'Hillary in '08' fervor to consolidate their fundie base for the '06 elections. But moderate conservatives seem to be taking her candidacy seriously--that could be a problem.

For me, who they nominate will also be a test of the Democrats' direction. No more DLC Dems for me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Dems to get the picture. If they sacrifice the grassroots in favor of the corporate masters in the next presidential selection...then it's O.V.E.R. as far as I'm concerned. It depresses me to say that, but we really need some PROGRESS in this country.

have to pay off my mortgage, school loans, and lay some big time sex on me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If a site like this, which, in theory, (accent on theory) should be a hotbed of Democrats and Hillary supporters, is so full of people so virulently against her, she stands NO chance in the real world where there are genuine Republicans, Red Staters, Swift-Boaters, Religious fanatics, etc., all of whom think she's worse than Satan. If 50% or more of DU'ers are bitching about Hillary, she's toast in a real election. That said, it would not surprise me if the lemming-like Democrats select her for the nomination, thereby assuring yet another national defeat. The Republicans are all dreaming and salivating that Hillary will be the Democratic nominee. If you thought what they did to Kerry was bad, just wait. We need totally new blood, not a tired old professional pol like Hillary who with each passing day is sailing more and more on whatever she thinks is the most prevalent, favorable and current wind. Representative Jay Inslee of Washington State is exactly the sort of candidate the Democrats should be looking for. Articulate, progressive, stands up for what he believes, empathetic, no known baggage, and on top of everything else, he's even telegenic. New blood is what we need!

she killed Vince Foster. Whitewater is going to get brought up again. It would make 2004 look like a picnic!

Ya know I always just thought that republicans were too crazy-making with that ridiculous story. So I shocked to hear the janitors where I work repeating it with absolute conviction. They believe it. I've done my best, but I'm fairly sure that they still hold on to the Foster thing as a matter of faith. Bizarre. So, I would suppose that you are correct; they'll drag it out again.

Oh, they are also convinced that she'll take all their guns away.

BTW, I did get most them to vote for Kerry. It can be done. They'll never vote for Hillary...never.

then you could also say that the neocons killed him as a shot across the bow to the Clintons to stay in line. No Iran-Contra, BCCI investigation, pass NAFTA-GATT. I mean it makes as much sense after Clinton's win to say the Clinton's did it.

She has better speech delivery than any other candidate
I can think of. Edwards looks like a choir boy in comparison
to Hillary on stage presence. And please do not go by what
DU'ers think. We are the left of most real world democrats.

I also believe suburban women will vote for Hillary in very
large numbers. If someone is taking bets, my money is on
Hillary winning the nomination and doing very well in GE
unless the repugs nominate McCain or Powell. Condi is no
match for Hillary in personality, quick wit & speech delivery.

am in a state that votes so late that we have NO say in the selection of the candidate. If Hillary has won at that point - I will support her. Frankly, I am much more interested in the mid-term elections than I am about the presidential race.

I really dont think she could win. Having her win the nomination will make the Repukes cream in their pants. They want her to win the nomination more than Democrats do!

I haven't agreed with many of the decisions she has made, but she woudl still be better than another Repuke in the WH. I would hold my nose and vote.. Unless of course there was a 3rd party candidate I liked and had a chance.

Hilary & lets not forget Bill her husband. You'll be getting two for one.

I hoping we get universal health care so don't knock Hillary.

Regarding Bill Clinton and the oval office. I've been there several times. It's not a shrine. It's nothing but an odd shaped room, no more and no less.

GET OVER IT. The Clinton team is one hell of a team. And his poll numbers were never as low as G.W.'s.

Yep I'm for her 100%

With the give aways to "private sector." And now that all of the money has been spent on Iraq, where exactly will this new money come from?

Act like a Democrat. For her to be leading makes no sense. Voting for her just because she Is Bill Clinton's wife Is like voting for
Bush. She panders too much. She supports Absentce. If you want to
reduce Abortions you have to have Sex Ed In school,and make It
easier to get condums and Birth Control. And corporate Democrats
are adding Bush. And she supports this war. Even Biden has said it was a mistake to vote for It she refuses to say that. Mark my words
some of the Younger voters and antiwar Liberals will stay at home or refuse to vote for her If she Is the nominee. There Is a reason Republicans and their Media whores take her up but Democrats don't.
Now do you really think she can get more votes than Kerry,and he was
a vet.

eom


John

But, if she gets the nod, I will reluctantly work my ass off as I would for whatever candidate is chosen.

I'm not real thrilled about the flag-burning thing, but I voted for her pro-death penalty husband. Anyone who I agree with 100% of the time is probably not electable nation-wide.

I know a lot of you guys want Barbara Boxer or Dennis Kucinich to run, but they will not win nationally. Dennis Kucinich might not even be able to carry his own state, not to mention picking up a couple of southern states. I doubt either could carry Michigan.

Hillary could pick up Arkansas, and maybe even Florida. If she picks the right running mate, she could do very well.

I would vote for her, because she'd be better than the Bush cabal. Not exactly a striking recommendation, is it?

I wouldn't vote for her in the primaries though. At this point there's really nothing she could do to get my support back.

Unless she single-handedly led a successful charge to impeach BushCo... ;)

Do you people LIKE to polarize the nation????

my brother. She has a snowballs chance in hell of winning center-right support. While she is pandering to them she is fast loosing her progressive-left supporters like me. Not a good game plan, imho.

If clinton wins the nomination, I will have a nice break from all things political, including voting in the presidential election of 2008.

Go Hill!!!

I support Mark Warner—he will be the nominee and he can win. Hillary is an imposter and she cannot.

"I should've never voted for the IWR. I should have listened to my base instead of the lying neo-cons."

That would win me back.

Julie

should Clark not run, or not get the nomination. Hillary isn't in my equation.

If she got the nomination, it would be a sign of something terribly wrong in the Democratic Party, and I'd have to start looking elsewhere.

A few stiff drinks will probably be involved as well.

Hillary has lost hers. Her perpetual pose is the "wet-finger-in-the-wind." The American people will vote for (perceived) character and consistency.

Just like I will get into bed with less attractive women while drunk, I will vote for less appealing candidates while drunk as well.

Nice tactics.

"What will it take for you, those who feel like I do, for you to back Hillary in 2008?"

why should I vote since a corrupted media and voting machines will determine who I voted for. If she gets the Democratic nomination, then I know something is very, very wrong. I don't think you'd have too many Republicans crossing the line to vote for her, nor independents--but the media will love her. I mean if they can make a medaled war veteran into a "chicken", just think what they can do for Hillary.

That is the biggest fallacy. Hillary is pandering, pure and simple. I would only call it "leaning towards the right" if I thought that she actually believed in the crap that she has been supporting. I don't believe she does, and that is why her strategy will ultimately fail.

I could probably support her in 2016.

:nuke:

that stupid flag-burning law, she frigging CO-SPONSORED it, I have read. All her statements are calculated to appeal to Rethugs as well as "moderate" - e.g., DINO - Dems.

I do not trust her AT ALL and feel it would be a further tragedy if she receives the Dem nomination. The Rethugs want that badly and are doing what they can to push the idea. And you can bet they have lots of dirt to bring up on her at a carefully planned time if this happens.

I would vote for Hillary only if forced to by there being no other choice but a corrupt neocon Rethug. Except for a few like Joe Lieberman, she's one of the worst possibilities IMO - she has lots of ambition but little vision. It's all calculation and poll-watching.

and her opponent once she got through the primary. Also, her stands at the actual time of the election. However, I have my doubts if she got the nomination, she could win.

"Oh please don't throw me in that briar patch" candidate.

If she manages to steamroller her way to the nomination, I'll know that We the People mean nothing to the leaders of either party.

as a message to Hillary...stand on the side of right and truth
whatever the political consequences (you might be surprised).
Forget the flag burning thing...such a blatantly political
move. Speak out on this illegal invasion. You and the other
Dems have cover on your votes due to missing and fixed intelligence
given to you. A lot of this country is against our continued
occupation. Speak out for the innocents killed in this invasion
and occupation. Say that we can't even take care of our
own in this country without trying to rebuild another country
and its people. Speak from your heart, not from your recycled
political advisors.

A female politician should speak from her heart as well as
her head.

And I'll sit this one out.

I know some people don't believe that.

the top, I think she's far and away our best shot if the election were held today, that is. Other than here at DU, I think she's got the support (of more Democrats than many here think), the appeal, the brains, the charisma, the savvy, and THE MONEY to back a good campaign to take on the repukes. She's a smart politician, even smarter than Bill, I think, and she knows how to fight back. Still, I'm hoping someone else comes in out of the blue to sweep us all off our feet in a year or two. Could be someone like Warner, although we haven't seen enough of him yet and there are still question marks. Maybe someone else we're not thinking of yet.

I guess you can tell from my reply that I'd support her in a NY second. People fell in love with her when she campaigned here in NYS.

if she is nominated. So why should she antagonize the
centrist democrats (DLC) and other voters leaning towards
center?

Honestly, though, I doubt she'll run.