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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 07:57 AM
Original message
On Undermining the President At War:
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 08:12 AM by CrackpotAmerica
On Undermining the President at war
Andrew G Gatto

“Some people say” that it is “irresponsible” to “undermine” the President at war. “Some people” are saying that it is “over the top” to do so and should result in “apologies” and “resignations.”

“Some people,” some group of unprincipled and unqualified men and women- some gaggle of cowards, of which many had relied on “some other people” to take their place by force in reference to their own service, are calling for some kind of reparation or retraction of statements by those who have based their opinions and statements on their personal experience and further by their first hand knowledge of the consequence of war.

“Some people” drifted through their youth untouched by the institutional repercussions of poverty and class. “Some people” benefited from the wealth, knowledge and treachery of their fathers, and therefore were granted the privilege of skipping personal knowledge of war in the first person.

Mr. Mehlman has “demanded” to know where “every American represented by a Democratic Congressman or Senator” stood on this issue. His “inquiry” is little more than an attempt to divide Democratic citizens while disguising it as some sort of moral requirement to step up to the plate and choose. His words are nothing less than a glaring look into the cruel and despicable simplicity of his soul.

His empty quest to serve himself is not worthy of my reply.

However, as I am a human being- a man afflicted with my own inherently flawed capacity to feel anger, I shall answer this question:

I stand with Dr. Dean. I stand With Mr. Kerry and Mr. Murtha. I stand with Mrs. Pelosi and all who oppose this cancer on my nation.

I stand with the belief that Mr. Rumsfeld’s, Mr. Cheney’s, et. al. knowledge of the horrid benefit of corrupting American loyalty and patriotism has led us all into this dark place.

I stand with the belief that the President and his chosen circle have pushed to conquer the media, instilling shills and loyalists who will repeat any FAX that holds the White House, Pentagon, or RNC letterhead verbatim.

I stand firm in the belief that the “some people” in question are a skilled and diabolical group who has chosen to revive the methods of Fascism and Imperialism to gain personal wealth and power.

And so, Mr. Mehlman, Mr. Hannity, Mr. Limbaugh, and the rest of you, I stand here as one person who openly supports undermining the President in a time of war.

I seek to undermine him as a result of my personal and first hand witness of his delusion, of his blatant incompetence, and his corruption.

My witness of his ignorance of the poor, of the diverse, of those who serve our country has led me here. My witness of the evil methods his strata have used to tenaciously deceive and dupe the citizens of my nation only strengthens my resolve.

I offer to you, Mr. Mehlman this opinion:

Any man or woman in this nation who does not question the motives of this President at this point in our history is a coward. Any person who seeks to revive some sort of dignity to this man and his ilk upon witness of his devastation of my nation is a criminal and can only do so by pursuing criminal means.

Any American who regurgitates the crafted and duplicitous slogans of your corrupted and criminal point of view to question my patriotism is characteristically un-American.

I remind you once again, Mr. Mehlman that the policies of Fascism and Imperialism, of Subversion and of Nationalism are proven failures in history. Note how quickly the sun now sets on the “British Empire.”

Lastly, I remind you again that your time is coming, and I shall stand proudly and ready to comfort your victims when you at last are removed from my sight.



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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked and nominated eom
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Jack from Charlotte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Here is a 7 page document with quotes from Repugs on Kosovo..
7 pages of quotes, the dates and links to the sources of Repugs bashing Clinton on the war in Kosovo...... which we concluded with no American Deaths..... years ago.

http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/gop_kosovo.pdf
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Very Insightful, Thank you for posting! NT
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Outstanding!
Couldn't have said it better (or even as well) myself!
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Thx! NT
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. So, Very ANGRY
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 08:16 AM by CrackpotAmerica
Each time I think that I can go on with my day, they pull me back into this cyclical anger...

I'm so tired.

On Edit: Thanks!
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. If you read this, read and watch this:
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah!! And, AS IF this "war" were not an illegal, immoral, unnecessary,
illegitimate, fraudulent act of naked imperialism, to begin with!

I used to be a Clinton-hater. Among the deluded bunch who were Clinton-haters, there was a lot of sniggering about Clinton's possibly being born "illegitimate". (He wasn't, though.)

Even for those who still buy that bullshit, I would have to say: "Would you rather have an illegitimate president, or an illegitimate war?" I know which I would choose--if I only HAD the choice now.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
56. We have an illegitimate president.
You have to get elected to be a legitimate president, even if you are born to the Bush aristocracy.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
6. It is our patriotic duty to question a President (illegimate or not)
at ANY time. If we do not, he is not a "President", but a "King".
OF the PEOPLE,BY the PEOPLE,FOR the PEOPLE.....
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. TESTIFY! NT
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. So I guess war is the way to win re-election.
If every president simply declares war on some clueless country a year before elections, then he wins, right? I mean, it would be unpatriotic not to support your president in a time of war.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm afraid "winning" an election is a thing of the past. NT
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. Good post!!
Hope you're sending it to Dr. Dean.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. don't know his email!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Start here...
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Grazi! (thx!)
I sent it out...

Once again, I am so angry that I want the whole world to know it... Maybe I should have posted this in General Discussion.

I, of course have sent this to Mr. Mehlman, himself as I perpetually do as a matter of principle.

Thx again!
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Thanks...
Did you think of editing it slightly (maybe elaborating some more) and giving it to Skinner for consideration as an article here? That's how Bob Boudelang was "born."

There's instructions on how to do it on the front page.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
50. I always forget to do that before I post...
I write a lot and always premiere it on DU. After which, I pick up the editorial suggestions like what you just did, make my edits and try to spread it around...

DU is ALWAYS my first stop... My home base... My secret love!

:)
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Is it possible that the "president at war" is undermining our nation?
I would think so...
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Bush is undermining the America people
Ya gotta go on the offense folks. We're right, they're wrong.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. That's what I have been trying to do!!
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. nice job....nt
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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Mr. Mehlman dares to make demands of me? Or you? Or any American?
He works for US, not the other way around. I'd love for him to confront me face to face! I'm a 5'2" female but I think I could take him! And, THAT would be a very American Patriotic thing for me to do!! :patriot:

That idiot has no right to make demands of anyone.

As these creeps spew their untruths, are they saying that no one should speak out against their governments? Then why are we trying to bring Democracy to other parts of the world? The stupid hypocrites make no sense!!

Excuse my tone but I've never seen one sensible word come out of Mehlman's mouth and he irritates the heck outta me!

emdee:mad:
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I write him almost weekly...
And call him on his lies.

I reccomend doing it:

chairman@gop.com

You know when he reads your mail by getting this reply:

From: info@rnchq.org
Subject: RE: Lose | Lose
Date: November 9, 2005 10:08:16 AM EST
To: ******@designfromnowhere.com

Thank you for contacting the Republican National Committee. Your comments will be included in the daily report to the Chairman. We appreciate your interest.


If you don't get this message, it means that you didn't get through that time.... KEEP TRYING.
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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I can try....
but he's so sickening!
:puke:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. You can sign up as a Republican team leader on their site
and receive all sorts of amazingly wrong-headed and dishonest gibberish by -email. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it here....

Strictly speaking though, Mehlman works for the Republicans...he's not a public official, like Scott McClellan is.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yup!
I was gonna point that out to the poster, but I didn't want to sound mean.

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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks - it wouldn't have been mean!!....
I just despise the man so much, I try not to know exactly what he is!
LOL
emdee
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. It's so hard to know where government ends and corporate America begins..
these days!

He makes me just as mad!

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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well, today, they are one in the same I'm afraid (gov & Corp America).
And it is scary. :scared:
emdee
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. The world has seen this before:
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 01:01 PM by CrackpotAmerica



Although the guy on the right was more devastating, it was the guy on the left who came up with the idea in the first place.


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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I don't understand why 100% of Americans don't see this.
:shrug:
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It is because of the INSTITUTIONAL corruption of loyalty and patriotism...
into the confines of NATIONALISM.

We are now victims of the exact same methods used by Il Duce and Der Fuhr back in the 30's.

Regretfully, as it is inherently flawed and ultimately DOOMED TO FAILURE, Fascism is very difficult to overcome once it has been squashed.

Be ready.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I don't mind being mean now and then....
And the Republican Team Leaders deserve what they get....

the Republican Prayer Team was also floating around for a while, demanding that its members pray for the corrupt cokehead.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. You're not being mean.. You are OPPOSING THE ENEMY! ! NT
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. LOL!
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Sorry about disagreeing with you on Lieberman (R)
Hope we can still be friends!

:D
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. That's what makes a horse race.
Did you answer the question there yet? To tell you the truth, I can see arguments for both sides.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. It is a tough subject.
However, Mr. Lieberman (R)'s vocalizing of some sort of "unwavering" or "undebatable support" for the next 3 years of this corrupt group supercedes anything I could ever agree with him on.

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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. THX!
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 02:44 PM by CrackpotAmerica
now I'm a DU staaar!!

(hint hint)




But seriously, I truly hope that there is a vast ammount of support for my message. I believe that it is time that we stand up and LOUDLY clarify our position.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. Yes, indeed!
Peace.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Thx! I dig your "Rudolf" NT
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VaYallaDawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Bravo! Nominated.
:toast:
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Lyle Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. SUPERB!!!!!!! n/t
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. To those who agree with me on this (and other things:)
We have to be more successful in spreading our message.

We must begin to describe the current Administration using the correct terminology, such as "Fascism, Imperialism, impeachable, criminal, propagandist, etc."

I long for the day Dr. Dean and Mr. Kerry begin to use this terminology as it is the CORRECT terminology. Further, It needs to be introduced into the voice of the opposition as our those who we oppose are making great efforts to falsely use this terminology against us.

The time for fear of rebuttal and debative chivalry IS OVER.

Now it is time to fight.
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ucmike Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. some of my family believes in blind support of the prez
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 04:19 PM by ucmike
although they surely didn't extend this courtesy to mr. clinton. in response to that i posted this on my refrigerator and will challenge them whenever i see them notice it.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public"

Teddy Roosevelt, May 7, 1918


i found it somewhere-don't remember where-and checked to see if it wasn't mis-attributed as some quotes are. under my basic research it seems to hold up.

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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. THAT IS THE GOP INSILLMENT OF NATIONALISM I WAS TALKING ABOUT! NT
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. This would make an excellent LTTE.
Very nicely done! I'm especially fond of this part:

Any man or woman in this nation who does not question the motives of this President at this point in our history is a coward. Any person who seeks to revive some sort of dignity to this man and his ilk upon witness of his devastation of my nation is a criminal and can only do so by pursuing criminal means.

Any American who regurgitates the crafted and duplicitous slogans of your corrupted and criminal point of view to question my patriotism is characteristically un-American.


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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thank you...
That should be the thesis of American citizenship in this issue.

I wish I could be world famous for just one day. I would use every second to awaken my nation.
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
48. I have to run, friends....
I'll be back later.

Thanks to all of you for enduring my anger today! It means a lot to me.


:grouphug:
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
51. Undermining the pRes, huh?Time O War, like an IED, eh? There aren't
enough in world I think for all the assholes.

NoFederales
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
52. You oppose with style Crackpot!
nominated
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thx!
I wish I did it with more success.

Sometimes it seems that I (WE) are winning battles but losing the war.

I fear for our children should this atrocious trend continue..
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
54. The Best Way to Undermine
*'s War is to force Congress to stand up and bring the troops home. And if our elected officials don't agree, vote them out and get in someone who will.

Of course, then my cynicism returns and I realize nobody wants to vote out their particular Congressman after all he's probably the chairman of the House Ways & Means, or a member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, or some other powerful position...
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CrackpotAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. I think it is crucial to start NOW!
The Primaries are in May.... That means that in 3 months, the heavy campaigning begins....

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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
57. it's amazing
that the lies used to create this "false" war and the so-called war on terror. This administration creates the war and then tells American citizens we're at war, so you are a traitor if you question it. I'm going loopy just thinking about it.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
58. Outstanding post!
Many of those same "some people" were screaming after Clinton tried to take Osama out with cruise missiles after our African Embassies were attacked, that it was all about Monica.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. The Neocon Regime of Amerika is ...
undermining what is suppossed to be a Representative Republic of The United States! Impeachments of Bush/Cheney are the 1 step to recovery.
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