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Harry Reid on CNN said the war is winnable militarily.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:35 PM
Original message
Harry Reid on CNN said the war is winnable militarily.
But I would not advocate for removing him because over all he does a good job. But I think his head is in the sand.

He said it absolutely winnable. Shades of Vietnam..

I see this forum will be used to try to remove Dean as chairman. I would never advocate such a thing, myself.

If we can just hush everyone up, we can have our war more peacefully without interference.

Kind of sad it will be used this way, to shut up a truthteller.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wait, what did Reid say about Dean?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. He said Dean needed to organize not make policy.
They want this war. I am so glad this is all coming out now. Because people will see what is really going on.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. "Because people will see what is really going on. "
Irony is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
92. Thank god for Howard Dean.
Howard must be off the meds he's been taking.

Forgot to strap on his newfound balls.

Too bad.

Looks like he's wimped out again.

I think he's wrong and Howards' spot on.

GIVE EM HELL HARRY - AND DON'T STOP!
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Reid is correct...and Dean knows it
Dean's role is not policy...his role is to get Democrats elected. He should not be speaking on policy issues. And for God sakes...if he does he ought to think first. I'm sorry but all he has done is given the Republicans sound bites for the next week...

I supported him for President, and I supported him for Chairman...but he needs to act within the paramters defining the role he has chosen to take!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. Dean must speak out until the entire party...
gets on board with a realistic plan.
Without Dean's voice, we have nothing.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #54
97. perfectly stated
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #97
113. Acknowledged!
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Reid is right
Dean is the head of the DNC. He is no longer a legislator or policy maker or running for office.

His JOB is organize and win races by RAISING MONEY for the party which I understand he is doing a lousy job at it.

Personally, Dean should shut his pie hole and do his job.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. You think Iraq is winnable? Our many lives.
How many lives is acceptable to you.

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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
53. It is not about me and what I think.
It's about the DNC and who sets policy and who is their spokesperson.

If Dean wants to set policy, he should resign his position and run for office again.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #53
93. I see - it's not about doing what is RIGHT - it's about STRATEGY
and WINNING, no matter how many of our soldiers die as they all play this game!

NOW I GET IT!

I still disagree - now even more vehemently!
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. We won the war
we lost the peace
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. He's raised $10 million more than McAuliffe did at this point in 2003
I agree that Dean should think before he speaks, but he's doing a damn good job with the "guts" of his role, that is raising money and building state parties, which he is giving a lot of money to.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
96. Reid is WRONG
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 02:09 AM by ProudDad
Money alone will not get rid of the current evil since the current evil IS MONEY.

Dean needs to be building a new progressive grassroots and that takes principles and honesty. That IS his role! Once this grassroots is educated and galvinized we can attack the REAL evil which is the money corrupting our body politic.

We NEED public financing of elections! Dean can take the Dems a good way toward that goal. Sucking up to the goddamn corporations for the crumbs from their table (the meat goes to the repuke party) is NOT going to get us there.

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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
106. The war is only "winnable" if you kill everyone in Iraq and flatten it.
Otherwise, it's only winnable by the enemy.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. "He said Dean needed to organize not make policy."
And he's right. It's not Dean's job to make policy. It never was his job. He said so himself early on. I strongly support Dean in his job as DNC chair, but it's up to the elected Dems to determine and articulate Democratic policy.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
98. Whatever happened to the 1st Amendment?
I guess Dean doesn't get the rights accorded to every other citizen, eh?
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #98
104. He wasn't speaking as a citizen
He was speaking as chair of the DNC. There is a difference. The point is that his job is not to set policy. I very much support him in his aims for the states. He is working very hard at that and making a difference.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. OK, I'll bite
who the hell in the Dem party is "setting policy"?

And how do we get some fire into his or her belly or bellies? (Pelosi excepted)
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
82. I really do not recall Party Chairs sitting on their hands and covering
their mouths in the past.

It was Howard Dean's energy that made me want him for DNC Chair, and since I've accepted that about him, I also accept that he will periodically say some things that are gonna piss some people off.

I almost wanna say Good!! Piss them off!!



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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. We can nuke Iraq and call it a victory!
And in doing so, we would have surpassed Hitler in cruelty!

Any war is winnable if you kill every living thing within sight, just remember the laws of Karma!
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. What is sad is that some Americans think in those terms
We have the ultimate weapon, we are righteous, we will never lose. In an era of asymmetrical warfare (and stupid leaders), we are no longer infallible and omnipotent.

We lost the war on Iraq when Colin Powell withdrew his troops and left the sanctions in place after the 1991 war on Iraq. We were at the limits of our power then. (Where does that put us now?)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. I've heard some Vietnam vets say the same thing
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 08:12 PM by IndianaGreen
They say that the politicians kept them from winning the war.

Ironically, that is exactly the same thing that the German rightwing said in the aftermath of the World War I, that the politicians were responsible for Germany's defeat. Fascism soon followed!
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Of course the war is winnable militarily. The cost is the question
Are we willing to commit the actual amount of troops required? Are we as a nation willing to sacrifice our children in order to win a war that was based on a lie? Are we willing to pay such a high price for virtually no real gain? No real purpose?

American military might is unmatched and we could wipe the insurgency out completely. In doing so we would lose huge amounts of our own people, our moral standing, our national pride and woudl end up killing untold amounts of innocent civilians in the course of the type of the campaign required to actually achieve military victory.
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Now I'm confused
I thought Reid was a brilliant field marshall/poker ace who
had all the dems on the same page.

guess I have to refigger..
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. And I thought Dean was a statesman who would understand that
the words one uses, particularl as a politician are important, and as Chairman of the Democratic Party that he would be able to refrain from sticking his own head up his ass and giving the opposition ammunition. I guess we've all been disabused of out ill concieved notions of Democratic competence recently.

Oh wait. Democrats actually think that a monolithic approach to far -reaching important problems is a bad method for solving them. We actually embrace differences of opinion.

Oh yeh except for those who quite clearly are so partisan that they lose sight of reality. Sorry for the mistake.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. No, now Harry's an evil war monger
who says the war can be won...just like THIS guy...

""We need a special task force of anti-terrorist troops stationed in the Middle East, because we're going to have to deal with Zarqawi for a long time....We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/

Wonder who that is reaching out to Chimpy like that? Must be an appeaser like Joe Lieberman, or somebody.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
72. As you get older...
... you will find that many if not most of your cherished beliefs will be challenged by real world events :)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Cost in lives...killing and bombing to win.
.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. And with over 58,000 killed in
Viet Nam..we still didn't "win".
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Second verse same as the first
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
61. Have you opened the link MrBenchley provided, MF?
"We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us," Dean said on CNN."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/

And why are you so willing to believe a GOP shill like Candy Crowley as to what Harry Reid said?

Whether you know it or not, you're falling hook, line and sinker for the Rovian strategy of playing up minor differences between leading Democrats so the MSM can then characterize the party as divided and in disarray, and without a plan.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Yes, he was cherry-picking. Transcript.
See, here is the 2nd paragraph which was left out. I highlighted the areas. I saw it, and I am responding to you, just as I have several times on this. I am not very fond of being called dishonest, and from now on I will fight.

HOWARD DEAN, DNC CHAIRMAN: "No, it was a little out of context. They kind of cherry-picked that one the same way the president cherry- picked the intelligence going into Iraq. We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us.

This is a strategy of strategic redeployment. We want to serve our troops well who are doing a fantastic job in Iraq. And if we want to win the war on terror, we cannot pursue the failed strategy we've pursued for the last three years in Iraq and we've got to start telling truth to the American people about what's happening there. We have a plan to do that and I'd be happy to outline it for you."

I hope someday the truthtelling will mean as much to some as getting back at me on something. If you watched it was pretty obvious he was referring to the war on terror being won. Now why not just include that paragraph.

I am very sorry he backtracked at all, but I hear the pressure to do so was very fearful indeed.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/08/ltm.06.html
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. MrBenchley wasn't cherry picking, he was
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:00 PM by LandOLincoln
quoting a different article at a different link, which article did not include the paragraph you've quoted.

That article DID, however, include two paragraphs you've apparently chosen to ignore:

O'BRIEN: All right. Final, quick thought here though. With all the debate within the Democratic Party, you lay out a plan, a strategic redeployment, which seems to be gaining some steam in certain quarts. The American people, though, think the Democrats don't have a plan. Why not?

DEAN: I think that's mostly press gobblygook. The press wants to focus on the differences. The differences are pretty small. Perhaps Senator Lieberman excepted. Most -- not only do most Democrats, most Republican senators now believe that the 2006 has to be a transition year. Even Senator Lieberman voted for that resolution. We need a change in Iraq and we will provide that change in the Democratic Party.

We have a plan that we can coalesce around. We may have some small disagreements on timing. We know the direction we're going on is a very different direction than the president. We want to serve our troops better. We believe they deserve better. We want to serve our people better and we want to win the war on terror and we want to do it smart because we can't do it the way we're doing it now."


Finally, Dean and Murtha are calling for American troops to remain in the region. That's what "strategic redeployment" means. That's what this means: "We need a special task force of anti-terror troops stationed in the Middle East because we're going to have to deal with Zarqawi for a long time. We need 20,000 additional troops in Afghanistan, not in Iraq."

How some of you can interpret that as the kind of isolationist, pacifist position you yourselves hold is beyond me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. But today Harry Reid made it clear Dean was not involved.
He said Dean would be involved in making policy. Or words to that effect.

So today on TV Reid contradicted Dean. That is my point.

Please quit attributing "attacking" to me. It is not true, and I will continue to criticize leaders.

This was is already lost, not winnable, we just need to figure how to get out.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. Again, you are making up words I never said. Totally unfair.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:26 PM by madfloridian
Where are getting that I said all that? Harry Reid effectively said that Dean should butt out. I have a right to criticize that.

He apparently said the war was absolutely winnable, and I disagree with that.

Please stop attributing things I never said. It is an unfair way to discusss.

On Edit, did not mean to dual post almost the same thing...did not see the first.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. "He APPARENTLY said the war was ABSOLUTELY
winnable?" "He EFFECTIVELY said Dean should butt out."

And you want to complain that I'm "attributing" things you never said? That's pretty ironic, wouldn't you agree?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. Ok, you win.
I am tired. I made my points, I was fair. So I give the spitting contest to you. It is getting childish.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. You were not even close to fair, and I see you have now
started more threads making the same claims about Harry Reid BASED ON WHAT CANDY CROWLEY SAYS HE SAID.

If you set out deliberately to disrupt and divide DU you couldn't have done better job of it. I wonder what Howard Dean would have to say about your tactics.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #88
107. That's nothing--wait until she starts accusing YOU
of being "for the war"and "wanting people to die", as she routinely does with anyone who offers up a fact.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #107
114. Again, not true.
You really need to calm down.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. The war is won if we declare it a victory and get the hell out....
people don't realize what forces are at work stirring up the hornets nest in Iraq. The insurgency has to be funded by something, and it happens to be those who are collaborating with our own neoconservative government to create conditions for a long-term conflict. This is all part of the PNAC plan. Of course it will all be blamed on Iran and Syria so that we can hit them next, validating the need for installing bases in Iraq. This is all playing out according to script.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Of course it's ridiculous to say the US military can't win a war
And you're right about cost of war, but there is another issue: it's not a war the US should be fighting. In fact, it's basically a fight against people who want Americans out of their country.

Under these circumstances what do we win: beating down the Iraqis and forcing them to submit to American occupation?
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saskatoon Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. killing untold numbers of innocent civilians
Who was the clown---I think a Us Army Officer who said "bomb them back to the stone age" It gets very frustrating when we have such ignoramuses amongst us.
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
60. Exactly!
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
66. No. It is not. We are in the wrong. It will NEVER be won militarily.
You will only succeed in military occupation.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. If BushCo wanted to restore law and order in Iraq
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 05:45 PM by DoYouEverWonder
things would change within weeks. Reed and everyone else need to realize they don't want to. Just like they don't want to help New Orleans or anyone else. They want everyone to have to live like animals, killing each other in order to survive. This is what the PNAC plan is about. Reed is right, there is no reason we couldn't have 'succeeded' in Iraq, if Bush wanted to.

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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here we go again.......
Unclear and inconsistent message combined with dissension among the ranks. Will we EVER LEARN?????
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. And is it even worth looking to see what Reid REALLY said?
Probably not. When you omit a link, there's a reason you don't want people to see.

Meanwhile, here's "war mongering" Harry: "“America’s troops and taxpayers have paid an enormous price for the Bush Administration’s continued missteps and mistakes in Iraq, and we cannot continue to blindly pay it. We all want to succeed in Iraq and for our brave troops to come safely home. That is why Democrats remain united in calling for the president to come forward with a strategy for success that will change our course and make 2006 a year of significant transition in Iraq. Our troops, their families and the American people deserve no less.” "

http://reid.senate.gov/record2.cfm?id=249576

"I would not advocate for removing him"
She says, having started a thread to attack Harry Reid for supposed sins that she cannot document.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Do we know what he said on CNN.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Based on other posts we can bet it won't be anything like
what's being squawked about here....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. I very much resent that. You are trying to hurt my integrity.
I posted the transcript. I saw it myself. I am looking for the video.

You keep saying things like this, and I very much resent.

I speak out on things, but I do not lie, and I back up what I say. If it turns out I am wrong, I will apologize and back down.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I said he said it today on CNN...I will post the transcipt.
He wants Dean to hush so all our good little DLC can have their war.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Please post it when you have it.
I have had big issues for a while with Reid, but I will be very surprised if he said that about the war in Iraq because he seemed more or less in touch with other Democrats.

However, this also may explain a lot on how other Senate Dems keep silent or are criticized when they speak out.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I am looking now. A video will be up later.
Candy Crowley was on satellite with a segment of his interview, and Blitzer was in studio.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I didn't say he was.
I said it was a DLC war. They really did push for it, approved of it, and they called us anti-war fringe activists.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. You sure as shit implied it.
"I said it was a DLC war."
And that claim is as dishonest as everything else you've said.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. It is quite honest.
.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. I am getting tired of your continued statements about my honesty.
I very much resent it. It is quite frequent. I know you won't stop, so I will just keep track for my own sake.

Calling someone dishonest is not a good thing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. See. You did it. You said my post was "an hysterical attack"
You also said I lied. I am getting damn tired of it.
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LandOLincoln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. Attacking a good Democrat like Harry Reid
on the basis of what a RW shill like Candy Crowley says he said is not such a good thing either.

******
Dean says Democrats have united plan
Party chairman and Kerry offer specific Iraq withdrawal proposals

Friday, December 9, 2005; Posted: 4:00 p.m. EST (21:00 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Leading Democrats sought Thursday to promote a specific plan for what party chairman Howard Dean called a "strategic redeployment" of U.S. troops from Iraq.

Dean said on CNN's "American Morning" that Democrats have a plan for Iraq "that we can coalesce around" and that the differences between Democrats are being overemphasized by the media.

"I think that's mostly press gobbledygook," he said. "The press wants to focus on the differences. The differences are pretty small, perhaps Senator Lieberman excepted."

<snip>

"We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us," Dean said on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. I did not attack Reid, I differed. There is a huge huge difference.
Read my posts, then go back and read them over again....I differed. I criticized a view, but I did not attack.

I like and respect Harry Reid a lot. What is going on here?
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
115. Even to the newbees of politics like myself, its pretty clear what is
going on.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
95. It is BUSH*s war - him and him alone.
Nobody else can claim ownership.

An Illegal war of CHOICE based on LIES.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
94. Then I totally agree with what he said, as I totally agree with what
Dean said, and the way Dean said it.

But thanx for the whole statement.

I have no quibble over it.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is the beginning of the DLC coup....
they've wanted to remove the one man who represents more of our voices from the beginning....and no I'm not donning tinfoil.
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Reid should be replaced --
the war is wrong and ANY democrat who supports this war should be tossed out of the party -- PERIOD.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes, Harry, we can win the war all right.
Just keep killing civilians and "insurgents", just keep bombing them, just keep using white phosporus and torturing.

We lost 54,000 in Vietnam. We have a hell of a long way to go.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
27. Transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/09/sitroom.01.html

CROWLEY: Well, it's true. I mean, here's Senator Reid, he's pulled to the left by Howard Dean, he's pulled to the right by Senator Lieberman. And he's in the middle sort of trying to pull his caucus together.

I can tell you that, first of all, when you ask him directly is this war winnable, Senator Reid says absolutely. Most Democrats believe it is absolutely winnable militarily, economically, and politically. As for Howard Dean and his remarks, I think it's fairly safe to say there's been kind of a meeting of the minds.

BLITZER: Suppose, Candy, this started with Howard Dean's controversial comments earlier this week, comments that some Democrats weren't very happy with either.

CROWLEY: Well, it's true. I mean, here's Senator Reid, he's pulled to the left by Howard Dean, he's pulled to the right by Senator Lieberman. And he's in the middle sort of trying to pull his caucus together.

I can tell you that, first of all, when you ask him directly is this war winnable, Senator Reid says absolutely. Most Democrats believe it is absolutely winnable militarily, economically, and politically. As for Howard Dean and his remarks, I think it's fairly safe to say there's been kind of a meeting of the minds.

BLITZER: Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
And when asked about Dean:

REID: And he understands that his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats at a grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC and leave the policy-making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate. He understands that."

In other words, Howard was put in his place, so to speak. Since he speaks for me...then my voice was silenced.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "absolutely winnable militarily, economically, politically"
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 06:09 PM by madfloridian
Crowley in the transcript, speaking of what the Democrats believe. If it is not true, and any quotes are wrong....now is the time for them to speak out.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. So most Democrats, including Dean, think the war can be won
"now is the time for them to speak out"
Yeah, let's see most Democrats speak out and say they didn't say what they said.

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. So it was Candy Crowley who came up with this
tidbit about Reid?

That figures.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Read what I said...look up the video.
They showed the part on the video. I saw it myself. If you don't believe me,fine. I saw Reid and I heard his words.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. When the video is up I will post it.
Maybe I will be believed then. I really don't care anymore.

They are going to have their war, Dean will survive somehow...and I won't be a Democrat much longer. Or anything really.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. MF, I think CNN is doing this for ratings. Dean and Reid
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 08:26 PM by janx
are in touch constantly and agree much more than they disagree.

Edit: Look at what Dean said today about the media distortion:

Dean said on CNN's "American Morning" that Democrats have a plan for Iraq "that we can coalesce around" and that the differences between Democrats are being overemphasized by the media.

"I think that's mostly press gobbledygook," he said. "The press wants to focus on the differences. The differences are pretty small, perhaps Senator Lieberman excepted."


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Reid corrected Dean publicly today. It was obvious.
Reid said the war winnable in every way. No, it isn't.

I am glad you are ok with it, but I am not right now.

Dean's position is very moderate on this, it is being twisted, and Reid did not stand up for him on that issue. He said he would not make policy.

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I believe Dean, that's all.
The media love to distort to get ratings. My speakers aren't operating right now, so I won't be able to hear what Reid says, but I feel confident that if Dean says the media are distorting again, then they are.

So I'm not really worried about it.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. It is our own Democrats distorting as well.
I am not especially worried, I got angry when I saw Reid say that today.

Reid says they will set the policy. If they think this war is winnable, as he says...what does that mean?

"REID: And he understands that his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats at a grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC and leave the policy-making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate. He understands that. "

So this means really that since my congress people don't hear a word I say...that I won't get anything to say at all on policy.

I hope Dean just keeps right on saying what he needs to say, because I think they are NOT going to pull out of Iraq at all.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
38. Over a million Vietnamese, over 54,000 of our military.
That was the cost that was paid because the leaders kept saying the war was winnable.

I am so very glad Dean said what he said in San Antonio. It was time.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Sure, if we were as brutal and immoral as Saddam was.
It's not worth it. Let the Iraqi's rule themselves.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. You need to re-read the trascrip!
It looks like, you took Reids statement way out of contant and post this shit here! Read it again... REID: And hem (Dean) understands that his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats at a grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC and leave the policy-making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate. He understands that." The key word here is "UNDERSTAND!"
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Yes, he now understands it.
Don't you get what he is saying? Dean was just put in his place on CNN by the Senate minority leader. I get it.

It is alright though. Dean will not hush, nor should he. He speaks for a lot of us who want our party to speak out.

His position is not far from Murtha's, but they can't attack Murtha. So Dean is convenient.

I don't think Harry Reid should say that in public.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. I hope this is enforcing my point.
Dean is a fire and brimstone advocate for our cause, and that is certainly timely. But he is too CARELESS in how he says things.

His brain is trying to tell him what to say but he doesn't wait for the message to be formatted before the words come out of his mouth. There is no need for him to make statements that will be controversial within our own party. If he does, it will serve to marginalize him as a loose cannon, and it will be a repeat of the Yeeee haahhhhh. Take it to the bank!!!

When you sit at the top of the pyramid of targets for the opposition, you need to use your words like a ninja. Not take your shotgun and shoot all over the sky.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. No, he said it all very honestly. The sadness is his own party...
being so afraid of the right wing. They are so afraid to offend that they are almost afraid to speak.

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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
55. <poof>
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 09:04 PM by HR_Pufnstuf
nt
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
65. This is because Harry Reid is being tied to the Abramhoff scandal.
There is not a way in the world to win this war militarily unless you are willing to nuke Iraq. Is this what he is willing to do? You cannot illegally launch an unprovoked invasion of a disarmed UN compliant country, bomb innocent civilians and their homes and expect to win this war...that is an irrational expectation.

Harry's having his little arm twisted. If you took money from that scumbag...step down, we don't need your sort. If you took money from the spy emporium AIPAC, we also don't need your sort.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #65
117. Reid has received large donations from Israel connections, look
Edited on Sun Dec-11-05 03:03 AM by NVMojo
at the records over the past decade for campaign contributions. Not sure what that means but I'm sure he's not the only one.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
68. Why do you and others keep doing this?
I've seen this same selective editing done with other Dems. Your Subject post is dishonest in the fact you omit two thirds of what Reid said. Later in your own transcript you prove the point. According to your transcript Reid did not say "militarily".
Snip>Most Democrats believe it is absolutely winnable militarily, economically, and politically.<snip
What these Dems are saying is that the war is not winnable militarily alone, it requires political and economic solutions also. Please quit doing this disservice to the Dem leadership. Sniping at them is as destructive as your perceived sniping at Dean.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. No, I am not attacking. Here is the whole transcript.
But, first this comment. This appears to be an odd thing that everything I put up is being called an attack, I am being called dishonest, and I was said to use lies. It has been done to me in this thread by 3 people. Now, may I ask you prove what you said...that I always do this? That was a very general statement.. I do question the leadership. I always have. I think it is our duty to do so. Why do you think it is bad to question leaders? That sounds very strange from a Democrat.

I posted the transcript later. I did not put any quotes in the OP, just what I heard.

I have a policy here. If I am wrong I will say so. I do not go around indiscrimately attacking anyone or any group.....I have articles or words of their own.

I make my points fairly. I never attack individuals, but I do disagree. If I find out that Harry Reid actually did not say that, I will apologize.

Here is the entire segment, and I still feel I was fair. Candy said she asked Reid and he said the war was winnable. It is the word "militarily" that appears to be in question. If Harry Reid or someone like that says it is not true, I will immediately come to this thread and apologize. Here is the entire segment, no bolds, no cherry-picking. So far I stand by what I say with a question about whether Harry actually said the word "militarily". I do not think Candy would have said what she did if he had said it to her. It does point out that he apparently said "absolutely winnable".

He most definitely put Dean in his place in public. It was very obvious. I actually like Harry Reid, but I reserve the right to question. I think our leaders will let the war go on and on if they are not challenged. I really do.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The idea that we're going to win this war is an idea that unfortunately is just plain wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So there's no specific timeframe, but I would say the withdrawal ought to start now, right after the elections, December 15th.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: There is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It's a tough ad. Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, is joining us now with more on this ad that's simply outraging a lot of Democrats and other folks, as well.

Candy, what's the aim of this ad based on what you've heard from the Republicans?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the aim of the ad, first of all, is the 15 million people they have on their list. So this has been e-mailed out to real Republican activists. What it aims to do is exploit pretty much what has happened this week and has been interpreted in the media and elsewhere as a split in the Democratic Party as to how they feel about the war in Iraq.

I can tell you when word of this ad first got out last night, Democrats were worried about how they were going to respond. Today, it was left to Senator Harry Reid who leads the Democratic Party to follow up on this and to say how he feels about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: This is not a political campaign. The president should be the commander in chief, not the campaigner in chief. This is not the time for Karl Rove. This is the time for leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Senator Reid went on to say that he felt that Howard Dean, among other people, had done a lot for the Democratic Party, that he wishes that what the president would do would be to work with the Democrats on the Hill to come up with a plan for Iraq, Wolf.

BLITZER: Suppose, Candy, this started with Howard Dean's controversial comments earlier this week, comments that some Democrats weren't very happy with either.

CROWLEY: Well, it's true. I mean, here's Senator Reid, he's pulled to the left by Howard Dean, he's pulled to the right by Senator Lieberman. And he's in the middle sort of trying to pull his caucus together.

I can tell you that, first of all, when you ask him directly is this war winnable, Senator Reid says absolutely. Most Democrats believe it is absolutely winnable militarily, economically, and politically. As for Howard Dean and his remarks, I think it's fairly safe to say there's been kind of a meeting of the minds.

BLITZER: Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And he understands that his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats at a grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC and leave the policy-making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate. He understands that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: And of course, of the things that did upset the Democratic leadership this week was the fact that they felt that they did have a bit of a deal with Howard Dean when he became DNC chairman that he would go out and keep the party base happy and raise funds and not set policy. So they've just had that conversation again, Wolf.

BLITZER: I suppose the Democrats are going to respond in kind to this kind of tough ad. Thanks, Candy, very much. Candy Crowley, reporting for us.

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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. I'm going to give Reid the benefit of a doubt.
This sounds like it was a clip and snip interview and Reid's remarks were taken out of context and paraphrased by Candy Crowley who God knows is not friend to progressive Democrats. It sounds like Crowley was amplifying what Reid said into a slapdown of Dean which it may not have been.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. He corrected Dean in public. It was not a slapdown. I did not say that
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:14 PM by madfloridian
I did not use that word at all. Reid very effectively put Dean in his place with these words...

"REID: And he understands that his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats at a grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC and leave the policy-making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate. He understands that."

Please don't tell me it was not meant that way, it was. He did not "slapdown", but he did correct him.

That was on the video snip.

And I take her quote about the "absolutely winnable" pretty much as being right. She said she asked him directly. Dean spoke for so many of us this week about that war, then Reid comes out and says it is winnable. I am disagreeing.

I have had so many words attributed to me here that I can't keep up.

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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #74
103. I wasn't implying that you said it was a slapdown--if I did I apologize
My point is that I wasn't willing to take Candy Crowley's version of what Reid said at face value.

I think that Dean sees a weakness in the party in that it has no coherent Iraq strategy. He's been trying for the past few weeks to get Democrats behind a plan which is pretty close to Murtha and Kerry's plans.

Dean's one of the few Democratic leaders who's judgement on Iraq I trust. He's right in saying that "staying the course" will lead to defeat. Unfortunately, a significant portion of Congressional Democrats are not there yet.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. For the quote about winning, we dont have a direct quote
Given who Candy Crowley is, there is NO way to know if she is reporting accurately what Reid was saying. She is a real mediawhore and I would not trust her without proof.

The only direct quote of Reid she gives is the one about the role of a party chair, and this is something that Reid has been saying since the beginning of the year, and he is not attacking Dean here, IMHO.

All the rest is speculation by Crowley and is worth BS. She was clearly intent on dissing Dean, no doubt about that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Please for God's sake, show me in this thread where I said attack.
Please do, I would so appreciate it. I am criticizing Reid, not attacking, and I don't think this war is winnable.

This is like the other night when I critized something on Countdown...the world nearly came to an end.

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. I never said that you were attacking Reid.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:25 PM by Mass

I was just pointing at the fact that Candy Crowley was not exactly a believable source when it comes to what the Democrats say.

I will keep out of Dean's threads, this is probably safer.

Peace.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. Hey, join the club. I never attacked and I never used the word.
Please feel free.

Peace.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. I did not write that you always do this.
My complaint is, that by reacting to a Republican ad being reported by a GOP sympathizer, in an accusatory fashion against other Dems, you and others who do the same are serving their purpose. This ad is designed to divide Americans and, even more hopefully for them, divide Democrats. They are selectively quoting Dems to paint an unflattering position and we need not further condense their quotes to fight each other. We do not have a direct quote from Reid and these RNC ads are designed to misrepresent the Dems and they have people like Crowley interpreting them in a way to further there cause. I think it would be more constructive if there were less reaction to their spin. Instead it would be better to expose their propaganda and critique their purpose. I just hate to see Dems fall into their trap.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Then they should not allow themselves to be manipulated.
They could send us an email, they could speak out that they were misquoted. Hey I love Harry Reid, and if he sent me a mail that said he was manipulated, I would post it all over.

I called 4 or 5 offices this week asking about quotes people had attributed to them in the press.

I was very impressed by Patrick Murphy's campaign person, very kind and very nice. He had given a ten minute interview about his stance on Iraq. They only quoted one sentence of that 10 minute interview..."I do not agree with Howard Dean."

I am into being fair, but the other offices refused to stand up for what they said.

This effectively put Dean in his place in public. I disapprove of that, and I hope he continues to speak out.

Not being picky but you did say why did I and others "keep on". I guess I jumped the gun at "always." My bad....
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
83. what happens when US fatalities, go to zero, or nearly so?
that point in time, is not far away.
Soon, all routine patrolling will be by 'mostly
Iraqi' units, with the
US in roles such as advisors, transportation, logistics help, etc,
and more or less complete police coverage.
There will simply be, few {visible} Americans to target.
Note that some advisors, do not necessarily
even need to be in Iraq.


Of course, getting to that point does not ensure
a normal political process.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. We are not going to ever leave.
It does not matter who does the patrols. Just think about it. Many of our Democratic leaders are saying it is winnnable, so we will be staying.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. public perception of the 'Iraq' issue will change, ...
when there are no US fatalities. at that point,
I think the natural resistance of the US voter to
a continued US role in Iraq will decrease.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #89
90. You have forgotten Vietnam.
Read your history on this.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #89
100. US fatalities will only increase as long as we remain.
THAT is the FACT.

The repuke talking points you so happpily spew will never happen!

All reports support MY statement, not YOURS!

YOURS is just wishfull repuke spin!
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #100
102. what reports?
I am looking for all opinions in this matter.

please be a specific as you can,
any links would be helpful.

TYI, what I read, reports vary widely,
I don't know what to believe.

Ciao
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #83
91. Is THAT when the Iraqis will start throwing flowers?
Your vision of the near future in Iraq is, at best, an impossible fantasy.
Perhaps you should study the Crusades, or The French Occupation of Algiers in the late 50's, or the American failure in VietNam.
Whatever makes you cling to the hope that an ancient Middle Eastern Muslim country is going to peacefully submit to a White, European, Christian Occupation (or the puppet government imposed by us)?
The Iraqis have been in Iraq for thousands of years.
They have been "occupied" before.
They KNOW how to win.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #83
99. What repuke talking points are you reading?
We are nowhere in any way shape or form even CLOSE to such a rosy bushco scenerio.

That is DEFINITELY NOT reality!
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
87. Point of clarification - Reid didn't appear on CNN but was quoted
and paraphrased, and had some of his comments replayed.

That is what I gather from the transcript.

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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
101. "the war is winnable militarily"
:rofl:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
105. Brainfart Harry... forgiveable... not where this is concerned I'm afraid.
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twaddler01 Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
108. You would think
with our media this could be accomplished easily...
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
109. I like Reid, but lets see what he says in 2 more years w/4000 dead
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Callie Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
111. Are you serious?
"I see this forum will be used to try to remove Dean as chairman. I would never advocate such a thing, myself."

surely you don't think that this forum actually has any political power over anything?

reading through this thread, it's no wonder the party is a mess. maybe when everyone figures out what page they are on they'll take a page from reality....

"It is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be commander in chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war we undermine presidential credibility at our nation's peril," ~Lieberman

The only one right now with his $hit together. IMO
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Wrong, it's the Republican Party that's a mess.
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 03:17 PM by ProSense
The Democrats trampled over a few Republicans in the 2005 elections. The Republicans are embroiled in scandal: six indictments and one guilty plea, with more to come.

Bush has proved himself a failure and the time has come for anyone still blinded by his rhetoric to wake up.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
116. I guess that's a good recommendation since shipping dead US soldiers
home in bags at the bottom of freight planes is such a cheap deal, huh, Harry??
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
118. DEAN has been right all the way 'long
Why are the people who were right not getting 100% support?

DUH?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
119. Of course it's "winnable," but at what cost?
The debate is whether the cost is worth continuing. Will we keep going until there are 50,000 dead Americans to put on a monument? Will we continue until our debt ensures the Chinese own us for the next century? Forgetting the fact we shouldn't be there in the first place, we need to decide how much more we're willing to lose.
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