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They are trying to silence Dean because they want the war to go on.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:45 PM
Original message
They are trying to silence Dean because they want the war to go on.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 05:46 PM by madfloridian
Harry Reid on CNN just said the war was winnable militarily and that Howard Dean needed to organize.

They want this war. We are not going to leave Iraq because too many Democrats agree with this thing.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's Vietnam circa about '65 - '66. The streets are way ahead
of the politicians, once again. We need our '68. Only this time, without the planned "lone nut" assassinations...
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. They are never going to leave Iraq.
It doesn't matter which party is in charge, it's bigger than that now. There is really creepy shit going on about Iraq, Hillary & Reid know it and have climbed on board.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Some statements made in the 60s about Vietnam....deja vu
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/12/contemporaneous-government-statements.html

Dean 2005:
Howard Dean’s comment the other day contesting the idea that the U.S. will "win" in Iraq provoked some astounding hysteria, but another, more substantive comment which he made in the same interview was essentially ignored:

"I've seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, 'just another year, just stay the course, we'll have a victory.' Well, we didn't have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening."


Westmoreland:

GEN. WILLIAM WESTMORELAND, press conference in October 1965, after the slaughter of 155 US troops at Landing Zone Albany, in the battle of Ia Drang:

"I consider this an unprecedented victory. At no time during the engagement were American troops forced to withdraw or move back from their positions, except for tactical manoeuvres. The enemy fled from the scene."

General Westmoreland and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Ernest Wheerler, November 16, 1967:



REPORTER: How do you see it, General?

GENERAL WESTMORELAND: Very very encouraged. I've never been more encouraged during my entire, almost four years in this country. I think we're making real progress. Everybody is very optimistic that I know of, who is intimately associated with our effort there.

GENERAL EARLE WHEELER (Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff): We feel that on the military side there has been substantial progress over the past two years, that in the last six months, the progress has been even more rapid than in the 18 months before that.


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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Those DLC jerks just can't admit they were WRONG
for letting the PNAC lie them into another rotten, endless, ruinoius war.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. This is a DLC coup...
they want Dean and candidates like him moved out of the way for 08, to make room for guess who. They will go after Kerry next....I am sick of this. I will bolt from the democratic party if they succeed in this.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. it is Dean's job to organize
and not make policy pronouncements. Reid is within his rights to reprimand him for this.

Dean stuck his foot in his mouth. Now he's out there doing damage control. Don't make some big conspiracy about it.

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Todd B Donating Member (809 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yeah, because Melhman isn't out there saying the same type of stuff
every day (obviously on the other side) and no one criticizes him. :eyes:

Governor Dean didn't make a policy pronouncement, he stated that the war is a huge failure that is well beyond obtaining victory. Everyone knows this - including Bush who said the same damn thing before.

They are trying to "swift boat" Dean (like they did in the primaries) because they are running scared of them - they know he speaks the truth and is capable of garnering support.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. it's not Dean's job as DNC chair to comment on the war
it's not his job to comment on anything that hasn't been cleared by the people he works for - the DNC.

And when he says something publicly that doesn't match the policy positions of many of the people he works for -
they have every right to be pissed off at him.

Melhman says what his party's leaders tell him to - and maybe nobody cares because they know he's just a lackey. Dean is a former presidential candidate (and governor). His words carry a bit more weight.

Nobody's trying to swift boat Dean - the swift boaters were liars. Dean said something politically stupid. Now he's going around doing damage control. That's his job, too.

Everybody makes mistakes.
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USA_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Who is "they"?
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 06:05 PM by USA_1
The Republican critics or the Democrats who refuse to stand up for Dean?

Or both???

So far, I have not heard Democrats stand up in force and to assertively defend him. What are they waiting for?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Both
.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Have you no shame? Have you no decency?
"Harry Reid on CNN just said the war was winnable militarily and that Howard Dean needed to organize."

Wonder if it sounded like this when he did....

""We need a special task force of anti-terrorist troops stationed in the Middle East, because we're going to have to deal with Zarqawi for a long time…..We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us..."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/

By the way, what is the chairman of the Democratic National Convention supposed to accomplish.
A: He's supposed to organize the party and round up donors to fund its activities. He's not supposed to give soundbites for Republican ad camapigns.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Do the ones who think this war will be won..have decency?
Do they really believe that? Do they?

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You tell me....
"We need a special task force of anti-terrorist troops stationed in the Middle East, because we're going to have to deal with Zarqawi for a long time…..We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically. The Democrats are coalescing around a very different strategy. We hope the president will join us."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/08/democrats.iraq/

Now be sure and tell us in hysterical terms what an evil warmonger THAT guy is...and don't forget to imply that he's in the DLC....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. He is calling to get out troops out and redeployed.
He is saying get our guards and reserves home right away.

Harry Reid and others say we can win. We have already lost, and Dean is saying it.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yeah, there's that characteristic honesty....
Sez the good Doctor: "We can only win the war, which we have to win."
Sez you: "We have already lost, and Dean is saying it."
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Harry Reid is wrong! Dean and Murtha, and others are correct--the
military is done, get them out. Our Corporate Politicians are willing to spend untold amounts of blood for oil; it's that simple. Who are you going to support?

NoFederales
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Where exactly is the difference?
Reid said:

"We can only win the war, which we have to win, if we change our strategy dramatically."

Dean's spokesperson said:

"Dean, she said, meant the war was unwinnable unless the Bush administration adopts a new strategy." - WaPo 12/7/05
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Because Dean said it, he did not keep in his place.
.
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