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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:16 AM Original message |
The Hillary Clinton cartoon you've been waiting for ... |
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WindRavenX (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:18 AM Response to Original message |
1. oo snap |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:52 AM Response to Reply #1 |
18. I never liked her personally, but politically, I liked her positions. |
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WindRavenX (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:58 PM Response to Reply #18 |
105. exactly |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 07:34 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. I didn't like it when Tipper did it, either! |
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WindRavenX (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 07:35 PM Response to Reply #106 |
107. that too |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:06 PM Response to Reply #107 |
108. That's the part that bugs me. I know she doesn't believe it. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:34 PM Response to Reply #1 |
46. I used to be a big time Hillary fan, too. |
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klebean (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:19 AM Response to Original message |
2. most fitting n/t |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:52 AM Response to Reply #2 |
19. glad you like it, klebean |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:19 AM Response to Original message |
3. Many on DU do not agree with you. |
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SaveElmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:23 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. And me! |
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...of J.Temperance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:31 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Well I don't agree either |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:43 AM Response to Reply #7 |
12. you know, I don't like your attitude |
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...of J.Temperance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:48 AM Response to Reply #12 |
15. You get here a minute... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:35 AM Response to Reply #12 |
33. I'm glad you added a smilie! |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:24 PM Response to Reply #33 |
128. yeah J. Temps is my buddy |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:48 AM Response to Reply #7 |
16. What sort of stuff? political cartoons, truth? |
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SamuelAlito (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:58 PM Response to Reply #16 |
66. The First Amendment |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:12 PM Response to Reply #66 |
75. Thanks for sharing. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:57 AM Response to Reply #6 |
22. sorry, SaveElmer, we can't agree on everything |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:36 AM Response to Reply #3 |
9. since when have many DUers ever agreed on anything |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:38 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. This is what makes us a stronger party. |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:42 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. right on |
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...of J.Temperance (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:47 AM Response to Reply #9 |
13. Whaddya mean...Bush sucks Cheney's dick?...WHAT'S |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:03 PM Response to Reply #13 |
100. crazy... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:47 AM Response to Reply #3 |
14. You don't agree she's wrapping herself in the flag? |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:00 AM Response to Reply #14 |
23. I disagree with your characterization that she is "wrapping herself." |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:44 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. You misunderstand the Hayes election. |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:12 PM Response to Reply #24 |
45. No. YOU misunderstand. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:48 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. you're wrong |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:55 PM Response to Reply #49 |
54. It's SHE, thank you. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:18 PM Response to Reply #54 |
61. Please, you're making me laugh too hard! |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:57 PM Response to Reply #61 |
65. No. I did RESEARCH in this area. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:01 PM Response to Reply #65 |
73. I'm responding to posts. That's what one is supposed to do. |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:29 PM Response to Reply #73 |
80. ... n/t |
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snowbear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:11 PM Response to Reply #45 |
109. Good post Writer! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:17 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Thanks for your support |
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snowbear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:44 PM Response to Reply #110 |
114. Why do anti-Democrat cartoons? Why not anti-ReTHUG cartoons? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:00 PM Response to Reply #114 |
119. I'm writing a political cartoon. |
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snowbear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:06 PM Response to Reply #119 |
121. So on campaign night 2006... are you rooting for Pirro? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:24 PM Response to Reply #121 |
129. I want Hillary to win the Senate election. |
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anaxarchos (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:12 PM Response to Reply #23 |
70. What???!! |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:15 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Damn. You took my post to a whole new level. |
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tabasco (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 10:43 PM Response to Reply #23 |
118. I damn sure support the flag ! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:03 PM Response to Reply #118 |
120. Well said. It's FREE SPEECH, traditionally protected speech. |
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kenny blankenship (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:20 AM Response to Original message |
4. I remember when patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:50 AM Response to Reply #4 |
17. I'd argue it's still number one. |
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Hardrada (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:20 AM Response to Original message |
5. Excellent |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:54 AM Response to Reply #5 |
20. Hillary actually knows her stuff on military issues. |
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Hardrada (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:08 AM Response to Reply #20 |
25. So we can win in Iraq then? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:40 AM Response to Reply #25 |
29. I meant she understands military issues because of her ... |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:33 AM Response to Original message |
8. Hillary is by and large a good woman |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:56 AM Response to Reply #8 |
21. I have no problem with her as a Senator or Cabinet officer |
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Hardrada (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:10 AM Response to Reply #8 |
26. Death to the peasants of the world |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:38 AM Response to Reply #26 |
27. It's not any one issue that troubles me. |
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Hardrada (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:39 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. Exactly so. Would be a mistake. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:43 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. The polls at DU opened my eyes to the problem. |
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rman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:52 PM Response to Reply #8 |
64. ...and a bad politician. |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:29 PM Response to Reply #64 |
130. she's a pretty good politician, actually |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:56 PM Response to Reply #130 |
131. My criticism of her on this point is legitimate. |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 12:14 AM Response to Reply #131 |
132. I would say it is legitimate |
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LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 04:11 AM Response to Original message |
31. Interesting. But your Kerry cartoons can kiss my grits |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 04:24 AM Response to Reply #31 |
32. Hey, I'm just glad you read them and had a reaction. |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 12:21 AM Response to Reply #31 |
133. don't lie! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 12:43 AM Response to Reply #133 |
134. I love her, but I'm not IN LOVE with her. |
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Wetzelbill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 01:29 AM Response to Reply #134 |
135. that depends on what the meaning of "in" is |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:04 AM Response to Original message |
34. Breakfast! Hillary being grilled. |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:07 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. Jeeze, that isn't a cartoon I've been waiting to see.... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:10 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. because Robert Byrd isn't running for president |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:17 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. So what? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:41 AM Response to Reply #37 |
40. Speak for yourself, Benchley. My insights are just fine. |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:54 AM Response to Reply #40 |
43. It shows.... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:36 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. sorry, Mrs. Clinton |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:41 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. Wow...you were clueless enougth to believe the videots? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:50 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. It's a joke. |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:58 PM Response to Reply #51 |
55. It's too lame to be a joke.... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:01 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. I take it you're NOT Hillary Clinton. |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:07 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. What was the first clue? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:13 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. uh, you don't have thick ankles and a moustache? |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:11 PM Response to Reply #59 |
69. Look Neil Lisst... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:06 PM Response to Reply #69 |
74. Look, pretend writer |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:31 PM Response to Reply #74 |
81. I can't argue with a narcissist. n/t |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:14 PM Response to Reply #69 |
76. Nice "progressive" comeback though, wasn't it? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:17 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. Benchley, please stay on topic |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:32 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Neil Lisst, quite frankly, you're not worth it. n/t |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:44 PM Response to Reply #82 |
99. If you're having problems understanding history ... |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:36 PM Response to Reply #77 |
83. The topic WAS how Hillary betrayed your "progressive" values (snicker) |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 04:54 PM Response to Reply #83 |
93. NOT wrapping oneself in the flag is a progressive value. |
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MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:10 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. Evidently, by your lights, so are sexist slurs and slander.... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:21 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. I've made no such sexist slurs or slanders. |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:50 PM Response to Reply #95 |
115. Hey, Neil! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:10 PM Response to Reply #115 |
123. Do you really think .... |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:31 PM Response to Reply #94 |
111. Dude... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:13 PM Response to Reply #111 |
124. Thanks! It's good to hear from fans like you. |
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kliljedahl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 09:26 PM Response to Reply #83 |
116. So how much is the DLC paying you to post here? |
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LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 02:11 AM Response to Reply #59 |
136. I'm not a Hillary fan, but that's the old "Hillary is a lesbian" bullshit |
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mdmc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:36 AM Response to Reply #36 |
38. good morning! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:44 AM Response to Reply #38 |
41. It's mine. |
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mdmc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:09 PM Response to Reply #41 |
68. good work |
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LincolnMcGrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:40 AM Response to Reply #36 |
39. . |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:47 AM Response to Reply #39 |
42. That's hilarious. |
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Sparkman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:44 PM Response to Reply #42 |
63. Free speach supercedes patriotism in my world, still. Emailing H.C. is a |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
44. Lunch time! |
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kliljedahl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:49 PM Response to Original message |
50. Just prior to that |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:51 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. That's a great cartoon! Thanks! |
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kliljedahl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 12:54 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Just posted it today |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Thanks, appreciate it. |
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kliljedahl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:17 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. I don't create any |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 01:24 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. OK, that would explain why I have not read those threads. |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:03 PM Response to Original message |
67. The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 02:56 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. It's one cartoon, Hillary fan. |
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radio4progressives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:28 PM Response to Reply #72 |
79. I think the cartoon is great... someone needs to send it to her |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:43 PM Response to Reply #79 |
84. hey, you make some cool cartoons, too r4p! |
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radio4progressives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:36 PM Response to Reply #84 |
97. I meant that as a compliment... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:20 PM Response to Reply #97 |
103. No, I was serious. Maybe I have you confused with radfringe. |
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radio4progressives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:34 PM Response to Reply #103 |
112. no worries.... does radfringe have a link? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:14 PM Response to Reply #112 |
125. I didn't even realize the confusion until you said something. |
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Nebraska_Liberal (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:48 PM Response to Reply #72 |
88. Good cartoon. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:56 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Glad you like it. Nebraska is a state with some Dem pols ... |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:33 PM Response to Reply #72 |
96. Condemnation? |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 05:41 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. Then your gripe is that people hate Hillary. |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:09 PM Response to Reply #98 |
101. My gripe is mainly about proportion. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:18 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. I welcome all comments, but I will respond in kind. |
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radio4progressives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:24 PM Response to Reply #67 |
78. Friends in NYC say HRC never meets with them, despite countless efforts |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:47 PM Response to Reply #78 |
86. Oh, she's running alright, and nothing else matters. |
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BenDavid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:44 PM Response to Original message |
85. Have any of you Hillary |
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Writer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:47 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. No, Ben. There is no time for that. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 06:48 PM Response to Reply #87 |
104. It's about Hillary, not her fans. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 03:49 PM Response to Reply #85 |
89. Have any of you Hillary apologists ... |
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radio4progressives (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 08:41 PM Response to Reply #89 |
113. exactly, it isn't as personal as it is about the ISSUES |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 04:04 PM Response to Original message |
91. I don't always agree with your views... |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 04:29 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. Even I don't always agree with my views! |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 09:39 PM Response to Reply #92 |
117. Oy. Well, hope she enjoys your vote, she won't get mine. |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:16 PM Response to Reply #117 |
126. I can understand your feelings, but I'm a Democrat and I vote it. |
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spindrifter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:09 PM Response to Original message |
122. Hey--I was looking at the 12-13 cartoon! |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-14-05 11:19 PM Response to Reply #122 |
127. Are you talking about these two cartoons? |
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spindrifter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 11:00 AM Response to Reply #127 |
137. Actually, it was |
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Neil Lisst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Dec-15-05 12:41 PM Response to Reply #137 |
138. Oh yeah, that one. I really like that one, too. |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu May 09th 2024, 06:40 PM Response to Original message |
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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
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