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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:12 AM
Original message
Why Bush admitted to spying:
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:14 AM by Evergreen Emerald
When Dick Cheney called today for "strong and robust presidential powers" (see below) it got me thinking. Bush, who usually does not admit anything, admitted to spying. Why? Because this is the beginning of the attempt at the blatant Hitler-like-power-grab. I'll bet he authorized the "leak" to the press he is so upset about.

One of the fundaments of our democracy is the system of checks and balances in which none of the three systems become too powerful. The neo-cons want to change that.

They have been implementing the plan for years:

By assaulting the judiciary. Not only are they filling positions with their kind, they have used the press to minimize the actions of the judiciary by calling them "activist." The bruhaha on Terry Shaivo may well have been part of the plan to minimize the judiciary (and it backfired).

They have the greatest power in the Legislature than they have had in years.

They spent the last decade or so buying off the press, minimizing the press as "liberal media" and creating a propaganda machine. (they did not count on the internet--the thing that might save us).

They have greased the skids of the masses with talk of values and religion as they mesmerized them with propaganda and lulling them into a false ideal of what IS value.

Iraq: they needed a war and a way to keep the citizenry in a state of panic and fear so that we are vulnerable and more willing to give away civil rights to the man in the cowboy hat who says he will protect them.

I have been wondering why Bush so readily admitted the acts of spying. This is it folks. The years of preparation are now paying off.


http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051221...

WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) - Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday called for "strong and robust" presidential powers, saying executive authority was eroded during the Watergate and Vietnam eras. Some lawmakers objected that President Bush's decision to spy on Americans to foil terrorists showed he was flexing more muscle than the Constitution allows.

The revelations of Bush's four-year-old order approving domestic surveillance without court warrants has spurred a fiery debate over the balance of power between the White House, Congress and the judiciary.

"I believe in a strong, robust executive authority and I think that the world we live in demands it," Cheney said.

"I would argue that the actions that we've taken there are totally appropriate and consistent with the constitutional authority of the president. ... You know, it's not an accident that we haven't been hit in four years," the vice president said, speaking with reporters on Air Force Two en route from Pakistan to Oman...
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. "they"
It's important to remember just who "they" are... the big money and corporations
behind the politicos. It's even hard to distinguish between wealthy CEO's and
government officials these days because of the way business and government
contracts have become so intertwined.

That's why Cheney walks the earth as if he owns it. That man is so dangerous
it's unreal.

Sue
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Remember when the Repukes were saying that Big Dog had too much power?
Now they all want a dictatorship.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's pretty much how I see it, too.
At least we now have a bright line test to determine which direction the country is going.
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MrDale Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. imagine...
if we didn't have the internet. the internet is the last piece of a completely liberated mind out there where you can't buy opinions and a bias as a whole... if we didnt have the internet, you can bet that we would be closer to a nazi state... i bet hitler would not have gotten away with what he did had there been the internet back then.

what is real scarey, is that we are still 1 terrorist strike away on this country from bush recieving all of the powers neccesary to begin a full dictator like reign and that is scarey, especially considering that he would allow a terrorist strike, because it would help him and his boys out mroe than it would hurt them.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I agree
the Internet is our saving grace as it allows us to see through the propaganda. It is also a way to unite. I believe * and his co-horts did not count on the power of the Internet (the technology advanced too quickly). There are however attempts to set controls and limits through legislation and regulations.

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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. People should take this to heart.
"You know, it's not an accident that we haven't been hit in four years," It wasn't an "accident" when we were hit four years ago; that is more and more becoming evident... We have a fight on our hands, and I mean a REAL fight, no euphemism here. Our problem is and will be organization and not putting any trust or authority into the hands of anyone who thinks we can "vote" our way out of this. One thing to remember: insurgencies work...
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billybob537 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
5.  The problem with Snarly's statement,
there is no impedament to investigate terrorists. These impedaments keep the guestappo from spying on anyone that oppose them. Peta has been spied on, greenpeace has been spied on, and I'll bet alot of us here at DU have been spied on. If you oppose this Evil Illegal spying you've probably been spied on. This is 10 times worse than Nixon, and 50 times worse than Clinton. The question is, Is there enough Honesty in the Repub controlled Congress to get to the bottom of this? we already know it's Illegal, immoral,and unconstitutional.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Don't forget their "need" for a New Pearl Harbor
The PNAC realized that the American public would not buy into the idea of attacking Iraq unless some galvanizing event, a "New Pearl Harbor" as they coined it, occurred.

It was just "good" fortune that 9/11 happened on their watch, thus enabling them to go forward with their plans.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. Arming the Left: Is the time now? --by Charles Southwell*
Arming the Left: Is the time now? --by Charles Southwell*

I hope you didn't open this page to read what we already know: that this is the most rightwing government we have ever had in the US, even far right of Bush I, that our rights are being eroded daily, and that our democratic process is all but gone, if it isn't already gone.

I hope you came here to read about tactics for action that will finally have some consequence. I hope you agree that our protests, petitions, letters, and on and on, have been utterly ignored. The fascistas that run our country laugh at us. They believe they can do anything and that we haven't got the guts to revolt, but only to wage a war of words. I have seen the Bush cavalcades, as they drive away, his aids sneering and jeering and laughing and mocking our protests. They think we are a JOKE. Tens of millions of Americans protested the war, but because we posed no REAL THREAT to their power, we were UTTERLY IGNORED.

As long as we pose no REAL threat to the powers-that-be, to what is shaping up into a dictatorship, we will continue to be ignored. Right now, we are ignored because we present no organized power to fight this onslaught of anti-democratic, totalitarian government that we are up against.

It will take time, but it's time to get more left-leaning liberals and outright leftists to at least POSE a threat, by getting organized and getting ARMED. It's time to get well past this liberal phobia and taboo about weapons and force. After all, our liberalism was won with a REVOLUTIONARY WAR! they used real guns in that war. The French Revolution was also a WAR and they used real weapons there too.

More:
http://www.legitgov.org/essay_southwell_arming_the_left_is_the_time_now_102203.html
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. that is powerful
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 10:36 AM by Evergreen Emerald
"I hope you agree that our protests, petitions, letters, and on and on, have been utterly ignored. The fascistas that run our country laugh at us. They believe they can do anything and that we haven't got the guts to revolt, but only to wage a war of words. I have seen the Bush cavalcades, as they drive away, his aids sneering and jeering and laughing and mocking our protests. They think we are a JOKE. Tens of millions of Americans protested the war, but because we posed no REAL THREAT to their power, we were UTTERLY IGNORED."
-----
I do feel powerless and helpless as I watch our democracy undermined by * and his buddies. We are ignored. And why not? What have our representatives done to this point?

I am reminded of a "discussion" I was in around the time of the elections with a right-wing neo-con. He was saying that it would be so easy to run the liberals off the road (the ones with the Kerry stickers on their bumpers) because he knows they don't believe in carrying guns and therefore would not provide much resistance. Seriously.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Groups Arming the left-wing
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 11:20 AM by IanDB1

Liberals with Guns
"The Constitution of the United States guarantees to you the right to bear arms...You have the unquestioned right, under the law, to defend your life and protect the sanctity of your fireside. Failing in either, you are a coward and a craven and undeserving of the name of man." Eugene V. Debs (speaking to the United Mine Workers, September 1914)
http://www.liberalswithguns.com




Pink Pistols
We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT.
http://www.pinkpistols.org




Amendment II Democrats
Amendment II Democrats is currently a loose on-line confederation of progressive and moderate Democrats and like-minded individuals who are dedicated to creating a free and armed America where people are safe in their homes and communities and the Constitutional rights of all Americans are respected. We believe in the power and effectiveness of grassroots activism and participation in the democratic process.
http://www.a2dems.net




Gun Toting Liberals
"It's not easy being a Gun Toting Liberal. Gun Nuts don't like you because you're a Liberal. Liberals don't like you because you're a Gun Nut. What is a Gun Toting Liberal to do?" Answer: Join the Gun Toting Liberals!
http://www.geocities.com/guntotingliberals




Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
To destroy "gun control" and to encourage Americans to understand and defend all of the Bill of Rights for everyone. Those are the twin goals of Wisconsin-based Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO). Founded by Jews and initially aimed at educating the Jewish community about the historical evils that Jews have suffered when they have been disarmed, JPFO has always welcomed persons of all religious beliefs who share a common goal of opposing and reversing victim disarmament policies while advancing liberty for all.
http://www.jpfo.org




Pro-Gun Progressive
Pro-gun progressives? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? How can you be
a liberal and support the Second Amendment? Aren’t guns for crazy rednecks,
gang bangers, one-world fearing militia members, and violent people? Hardly!
http://www.progunprogressive.com



This is why we need to be armed:





"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too. Otherwise they will turn out to be outright traitors." -- Ann Coulter


"Our goal is a Christian Nation.... We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."
-- Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, speaking in Fort Wayne, Indiana, on April 15, 1993, as reported the following day in The News-Sentinel.


"Words mean things." -- Rush Limbaugh



---------------------------------------------------------

Maybe the Left should take conservatives at their word?

More:
http://liberalswithguns.com/_wsn/page2.html

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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. They'll get away with it until the Chinese say "enough"...

Then Hu will have his people start screwing with the US economy until Cheney, Bush et al are shaken out of the tree in favor of some more sane heads.

The one thing you'll notice about these neocons is that they've never had a decent economist.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. It is a rather blatant powergrab on their part...
These people are not conservatives in the traditinal sense. They are revolutionaries who can be classified as radical reactionary statists. They want:

1. An authoratarian government where 1% of the people, The Power Elite, make all important decisions that affect the other 99%
2. The ability to spy on all people at all times.
3. A breakdown of church and state (religion makes it easier to control the masses).
4. A strong military to enact the imperilialistic PNAC agenda to rule the world by basically controlling all of the world's resources of strategic importance and destroying any rivals to their power.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well said--they are in the process of a revolution.
I am connecting dots this morning that I have not connected before. I think of Frist changing his vote on the Patriot Act so that it would not be extended for three months. That vote did not make sense to me until now. * can now use the lapsing of the act to highlight the (fake) differences between his party--the party that will protect us--and the dems who will allow the Patriot Act to lapse. This helps further make the case that he needs more power.

The power-grab has not been as blatant and open and aggressive before now. It is as if the window of opportunity is upon them.

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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Just watch... Alito will be appointed to the SCOTUS...
The controversy surrounding him in the media will be about reproductive rights instead of whether he supports the reversal of FISA. The Dems to their credit will threaten to filibuster, but this power will be taken away by Frist.

The Bush domestic spying case will then be brought before the SCOTUS. The SCOTUS will uphold that Bush's position that domestic spying is consistent with the Executive's duties, thus reversing FISA. The ruling in affect will give the President power to do basically whatever he wants.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
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