DAMMIT! Dems NEED TO SPLIT! It's Time and I 've had ENOUGH of this Crap!

I'm a total Dean supporter....BUT..he's only "one man" and our Grassroots Activists are being trashed by our own Dems in our OWN STATES!
We get very little support...and in some areas of US we are trashed by DINO DEMOCRATS whose loyalty seems to be more DLC..leaning Repug than true Dem Values.

We need a THIRD WAY! I've had enough of this Shit from Dems...and that Phone Bank that's Offshored" by the Dems with "phone banks by illiterates" soliciting money from me ... to supposedly "save money" sent me over the edge. :puke: (I posted about it on DU and notified my NC DU Progressive Operatives and was roundly trashed for complaining).

I'm a Democrat but I'm thinking strongly of changing affiliation to INDEPENDENT.

What our DEMOCRATS have done to us here in NC and across America says that the "Grassroots" that Dean so valiantly instigated but have NOT BEEN Acknowledged all these many years since Clinton lost the House...seem to say that our Dems will always leave us as "Road Kill" when the opportunity arises.

I understand what you all say that Dems have a "plan..a strategy...just be patient..Bush/Repugs will implode on their own...but a THIRD WAY...has got to be the way many of us Dems go. Our party leaves us except for the Hero's: Conyers, Waxman and the others we all know and love here on DU.

Some of us have HAD ENOUGH. Our Party needs to "Split."

We'll never defeat the Republicans that way. A split isn't even necessary, since the party is more unified than ever.

Just like the DLC got Clinton Elected after we wandered in the Vietnam Wilderness...WE NEED BIG CHANGE!!! That's what I'm saying, here.

I said something like that the other day, I wish someone would start a Progressive Party again. Sometimes they just appear when they are needed because of the grassroots demand. Then they fade away. Maybe that is because they are more results oriented, more narrowly focused, and not as susceptible to outside influence. I dunno. :shrug:

Better check out that chasm between what the party base needs and what the leadership is willing to do for them.

The party has rotten leadership at the national level and at the state level. Party conservatives have sold out the party base one time too many.

Why the hell do you think voting percentages are so awful? Just what the HELL has the party offered to working people other than "Well, we're not quite as bad as they are?" Business as usual? That's what has been KILLING THEM, and they know it.

So before you make pronouncements about party solidarity, you'd better check your facts. Yeah, the DLC present a united front. The rest of us have been left out in the cold for over 30 years, and we know it. Why do you think the Dems lost all three branches of government?

horrid corrupt lobbyists like Abramoff and Congressional Repukes (DeLay) who were in cahoots with him, and extended his power in many unethical ways.

The "K Street" project.

The lies,deceit etc of the admin.

The ascendancy of the rad right wing fungamendalist religious fanatics.

The very unholy alliance between them and the neocons.

Exploitation of 911.

etc etc etc.

Democrats help sideline social security privatization, because not one Democrat wanted it, plus numerous other things. It's the Republicans tactics that cause us to lose.

on social security if the numbers had been any more in Bush's favor, and we all know it. They haven't cared to shore up pensions or do anything else for people who are facing retirement with NOTHING because pension contributions have been stolen their whole lives.

Give me a break, here. The spineless wimps in control of the party spend most of their time squabbling over the yuppie vote. They haven't done a goddamned thing for the working stiff in over 37 years, and the working stiffs all know it.

You want to win? Reconnect with the class that has taken the biggest beating from class warriors in both parties, get even 10% of them off their couches and to the poll on election day by offering them justice and hope for a better future, and prepare to see the GOP buried under the landslide.

Or keep doing what they're doing and continue to be shut out of power in exchanged for tax cuts.

That was the wimpiest, stupidest, most inept campaign since the Dukakis debacle.

Some will say "Kerry won!" -- None of the voter fraud bullshit that happened (an I believe it did) mattered, because YOU CANNOT "WIN" WHEN YOU HAVE EFFING CONCEDED! He conceded so fast, it gave me whiplash.

We didn't NOT WIN just because of the Republicans.... The Republicans did their usual sh*tstorm of disgusting claims, and NONE OF THEM was adressed. No one took off the gloves and got down and dirty in response -- not for our sake and not to win.

We did not lose the last election JUST because the Republicans did us dirty. We nominated a candidate who was a DLC puppet, playing by their collusionary Marquis of Queensbury Rules. He was afraid to be seen to be a "sore loser" or less than a "gentleman".

It needs to STOP. We need to nominate someone who will get down and dirty -- and even bloody -- the next time out. We need someone willing to "appear" any way necessary to win. We need a warrior!

BI-PARTISANSHIP IS A PIPEDREAM THAT NEEDS TO BE KILLED! There is no such thing as BI-PARTISANSHIP any longer. It is now called COLLUSION. And COLLUSION LOSES!

TC

Please don't do this.

We've allowed ourselves for too long to think the "Adults would save us." They haven't. And as you, yourself said, Dean cannot do this alone. But he lead the way with the Internet...and while we might not "get there with Dean" he did show us a way.

I'm going back to Moses and Martin Luther King in what I say. "I might not get there with you."

It's up to US OUT HERE...to be the "Pilots/and those who "Forge the Path" to the FUTURE.... We have to do it........we have to..

Yet, they continue to do damage.

when one drinks from a certain Dem hating pitcher of kool-aid often enough, it tends to spill over. Ever read Progressive Independent? I believe the OP frequents the place. What you read in the OP's OP here is what you read constantly there. Constantly.

All Dems suck and gruntwork at the grassroots level is for suckers. Just ask 'em, they'll tell ya.

Don't worry tho' MF, they keep pretty busy on the internet and aren't likely to be underfoot in the RW.

Julie

mine was actually set off by the abuse of power shown by a local woman who has had total control of the local Democratic Party. She recently pulled a fascist style election keeping herself and her cronies in power and the State Party did absolutely nothing but sit on the sidelines and bite their nails after dispensing bad advice. Later, I did a search on this tyrannt's campaign donations and she gives enough to the state party to keep them quiet and to Reid.

We want "fresh air" and got stale shit for trying. This local Dem party has done shit for years and continues to lose registered Dem voters to Repuke.

For now, I am doing nothing but hanging on and hoping leadership shows up from the Dem party before it is too late for this country. I stick with online Dem groups. We are surrounded by pigs at the trough, you know?

It might not be Radical Enough though. We need to do partnering with our Brits who are trying to wade through the same "muck" we have here with Bush that they have with Blair in GB.

I'm looking for a RADICAL DEM ALTERNATIVE! I thought I was clear in my OP but I guess folks thought I was looking for a new Ross Perot..(that LOSER!)

I'm talking about more Radical than the Progressive Dems...a Movement to even the Left of our Progressives for DEMOCRATS!!!!

and think about the message..Google some more about him and his "Liberal Dems." What do you think? Could we support him here in the USA?

---------

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:j_KKBcE39KcJ:www.charleskennedy.org.uk/+Charles+Kennedy,+Democrats&hl=en

Three Party Politics
Rt Hon Charles Kennedy MP

At the general election it was crucially important to see the liberal tradition again confirmed as the growing force in politics. Thanks to your support we now have the most powerful representation in Parliament for the best part of a century with 62 MPs and 74 members of House of Lords.

National three party politics is now a reality. The Liberal Democrats stand in opposition to an authoritarian and centralising Labour party, and a Conservative party which has little faith in our public services and is at odds with the new Britain.

I belive that together we can continue to change the face of politics in Britain. Because the rise of Liberal Britain is not just about what is happening in Westminster.

It's about the way Britain is changing and how we promote the liberal values that are in tune with the way people now think and feel.

We champion the individual and the community over the vested interests of the state. We defend human rights and fundamental civil liberties. Our innate sense of fairness means that we are committed to social justice - and that means we believe in reforming taxation - not higher taxes but fairer taxes with people paying their fair share - and getting rid of wasteful spending so we can concentrate on things people really want.

That why we stand for quality public services - free and available locally in the community. We believe that environmentalism is not an optional add on but crucial if we are going to protect our children from the worst effects of climate change. And we want Britain to be respected around the world - which means we have to respect international law as the best way to preserve our security. The evidence of what happens when our leaders engage in deception is there for all to see in Iraq.

we cede more elections to the neocons in the process?

My family came from Europe, and never thought so much of the "2-party system."

But in many European nations, the parties are able to form coalitions that constitute more than 50%, and thereby control the government.

The USA is not organized to allow for that, at least not at the level of the Presidency.

Time to go local.

There's nothing wrong with that. Parties are imperfect, just like the people who make them up.
I just vote for Democrats. And, if the Democrats need me, I'll help out.


:)

people could possibly run. No need to use lobbyist money. No need to fund raise-they could finally do the will of the people. Come on, we are paying through the nose now. I heard for approximately $5/per person/year, we could have public funded elections.
I would vote for an independent if they were better than the Democrat that was running-but mostly I vote Dem

but it won't. It will just make matters worse.

CEO of DLC(He's a G_D Republican political adviser!!) I freaked. The DLC doesn't just SOUND republican, they really really want to BE republican! I HATE THAT SHIT!! The American worker and our families are being pounded into the dust and all they offer us is corporate talking points!

The DLC must be made irrelevant somehow.

that's DLC speak. That's what they claim they are.

why? And, why can't one of the "Three" assume more power even if they "usurp" the power from the "other two?"

Why is that not something we could achieve? There are many DU'ers who are Dems...and want to gain power for THEIR VIEWS...why not a "Third Way?"

Just throwing it out...because I believe I could work for this..:shrug:

(you just need to know...I'm pretty conservative on ALOT OF ISSUES that some of you would have problems with me on..and I'm not sure MY THIRD WAY...would be as inclusive as what I might get pushed into.)

That would cause us to lose vote. Each fact would get a percentage of the vote, depriving us of a majority and letting the republicans win without a majority.

Grassroots try to EXPOSE the Corruption our OWN DEMS don't SUPPORT US...except for the Black Caucus in Congress! This has been going on since "SELECTION 2000" How long should we wait? There Have been two ELECTIONS since 2000 and WE DEMS HAVE LOST!

What are we supposed to think at this point? :shrug: AND...here in NC we have our OWN DEMS trying to Trash a Grassroots Law that would have disallowed the Diebolds to place their DRE Machines in NC to satisfy that dreadrul HAVA Act and we have lawsuits and whatever and our OWN DEMS like Governor Mike Easley (Democrat two term Gov) are WORKING AGAINST US!

:wtf: is this?

Our own democrats in power opposed voter verified paper ballots and LIE TO COVER UP THE PROBLEMS WITH DRE VOTING HERE. Then they pretend they are going to do something to try to FOOL the poor voters into thinking they are solving the problems when they are working with DIEBOLD 100%.

How about the Dems in California who trashed and eventually got Kevin Shelley thrown out of the SOS's office when he was STANDING UP AGAINST DIEBOLD AND FOR THE RIGHT OF CALIFORNIANS TO VOTE AND HAVE THEIR VOTE COUNTED AS THEY INTENDED?

And why would any patriot in this nation make excuses and continue to support in any way, shape, or form those Democrats who compromise with the Republicans war, lies, treason, torture, undermining civil rights and every other kind of crime against our democracy?

Because they have us by the short hairs, that's why. If we don't vote for them, then we help the Republicans.

But what is completely, bitterly clear to me is that that they know we're in that position. THEY USE IT AND US. IT'S CALLED ABUSE FOLKS. THE WORST KIND. That realization on my part has come at a high price but it has given me insight into why it's so hard for * lovers to withdraw their support. That's how hard it is to look at these "moderate democrats" and finally admit that THEY ARE FASCIST COLLABORATORS and just as guilty for the death and destruction that has been pouring from this country to poison the world and our futures as the * cabal.

No one can compromise with evil without being a part of it.

Machines in our face inspite of the Grassroots Dem Oppostion. That's what's made me feel THIS is the final Straw! The straw that broke my back was that we have no DEM support except Conyers to understand these machines with no or CORRUPTED ticker tape trail are LOOSING DEM VOTES. OUR VOTING SYSTEM IS MANIPULATED and WILL NOW BE COMPLETED once HAVA Compliance takes over for '06!

And EVERY STEP OF THE WAY...our DEMS in our OWN STATES HAVE WORKED AGAINST US! MY GAWD! It was an "eye-opener!"

Secretary of State and refute her lies in committee in the General Assembly. I had to work with Republicans to get any bill introduced for vvpb. I had Democrats add poison pills to our bills or undermine them. I've seen Democrats lie about problems with DREs and protect Diebold's interest before the interests of the voters.

These abuses by Democrats toward their own creates wounds that don't heal.

Et tu Brute?

can work with down the line. The Repugs who are RINO's who will counterpart our DINO's but may join us on "Big Brother Govenment being a bad thing." And maybe the idea of "Nation Building" being melded into a "Peace through Diplomacy" movement. War is not the answer. And BIG GOVERNMENT DEFENSE BUDGETS which can only survive by having endless WAR to justify our tax dollars being spent on it needs to be called into question and discussed in new ways. We can't have "COLD WAR" forever.

Any Repugs who can start to see a need for a viabile, vibrant rebirth of Working Man's/Women's UNIONS and Health Care for ALL would be a start in my book. And, that Big Government Defense only perpetuates endless war and is bad and debilitating taking away resources from our basic American needs at home (infrastructure and domestic) is another.

:shrug:

Our Cassandra in Saigon

By Kenneth Champeon


"I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused." -from The Quiet American

When Graham Greene published The Quiet American in 1955, American involvement in Vietnam was limited to (only?) billions of dollars in military aid to France and South Vietnam, and the machinations of the CIA. Yet the book remains ominously prescient of what was to come: twenty years of folly, millions of casualties, and the first military defeat of the United States.

When it came out, The Quiet American was roundly condemned in America, most notably by critic A. J. Liebling, whose New Yorker review was entitled "A Talkative Something-or-Other." Hollywood turned out a film version at the height of America's crusade against Communism, so the screenplay possessed nothing of the book's anti-Americanism and its ambivalence toward the Reds. Not surprisingly, this propaganda film has been forgotten. Calling it "a real piece of political dishonesty," Greene predicted correctly that "the book will survive a few years longer than Mr. Mankiewicz's incoherent picture." As the ugly truths of the Vietnam conflict percolate upward through the miasma of lies upon which it was founded, the The Quiet American is finally getting its due as political prophecy and work of art. It commonly appears on the "recommended reading" lists of Southeast Asia travel guides, and in 1996, Penguin published a critical edition, which includes over 300 pages of literary criticism, relevant historical documents, and Greene's other writings on Indochina.

The Quiet American begins with the death of the quiet American, an ingenuous CIA operative named Alden Pyle. Vigot, a fatalistic French policeman (he reads Pascal's Pensees to bide the time), thinks that the British journalist Fowler may have had something to do with it. Fowler denies responsibility: "They killed him because he was too innocent to live. He was young and ignorant and silly and he got involved." But Vigot does not over-exert himself: "To speak plainly," he says, "I am not altogether sorry. He (Pyle) was doing a lot of harm." The harm done by Pyle is based upon his belief that "what the East needed was a Third Force" to replace the French and the Viet Minh, then grappling for control. By receiving American support, this third force would bring Liberty, Justice, and the whole gamut of American shibboleths to Vietnam.

http://www.thingsasian.com/goto_article/article.2234.html

I sympathize with what you are expressing here; I'm pulling up a chair to watch the fireworks.

:popcorn:

where corporate contributions aren't even accepted and grassroots is what it's all about. i put a lot of blood sweat and tears and cash into the democratic party over ther the course of 33 years only to have them turn their back on me and issues that matter to me so that they can get more corporate gold. f* that.

party?

dean reid boxer kerry feinstein conyers murtha levin schumer etc all seem to be going pretty hard at the bush boy/gop. even some repugs seem to be joining in since the NSA revelations.

JMHO this is not a good idea. All we get from this is more republicans. I want a dem majority in 06, not more republicans.

And if you're looking for a fractured Democratic party where nobody stands up for you, that's what you'll find.

They must be getting sick of this mess...and ready to BOLT! We Dems will stay together until '06...but with corrupted Voting Machines HAVA/BUSH have put into place with help from our OWN DEMS...I don't think that we will have a "unified party" after '06.

That might be the LAST YEAR that we DEMS HELD TOGETHER for ANYBODY BUT BUSH!...

I'm looking forward to the future. WE NEED A BIG CHANGE....

Dean will not do it, he is very practical that it is the wrong way with our country in crisis.

Who is going to be your leader? And please quit saying Third Way...that is the DLC.

rethink. It's just my "sixth sense." So..only as realiable as a "hunch."

We can't go on like this madfloridian. Somethings got to give. We aren't getting the help we need. :shrug: If Dean is a serious as I think he is...I think he will find a "new way." I have alot of faith in him because he is so down to earth and practical.

BUT...if he can't do it...there are many who are being "groomed" now who might emerge before 08. There are many who are angry and are waiting in the wings to "emerge" as a new face of the Dem Party. Not all of them...are folks we might like to put our hopes in though. They may be those who want to emulate the "supposed corrupt" success of the Repugs. We may have new Abramoffs and Cunninghams in the wings waiting to emerge in the Dem Party...and there are plenty of old Dems..who would welcome them at the pig trough. That's what worries me...:-(

Do you think Dean will like what you are doing? I think you should ask him
http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contact

:shrug: I think Dean...understands it all.. He knows we need to "Move On."

But I sure as hell know that he will not want to see the Democratic party split. That is why he is the chairman of the DNC.

loves his country and wants to take it back

AND

because the DLC et al gave him that office to use him to try to get money from progressive (aka REAL) Democrats. Notice how none of the vocal Democrats stand up for Dean -- they get on tv and undermine whatever he says.

DLC that put him in. Unless we Grassroots are really clueless..and got "hoodwinked on Dean" what you say isn't true.

DLC did not put Dean in. They had at least two other Candidates they were pushing but "Grassroots" furious over Kerry/Edwards CAVING over Vote Recount wanted Dean to take over DNC. We fought hard to get him in.

I love Dean. But I'm convinced that without the consent of the powers that be nothing we the people did would have made any difference. We don't have any power except as targets for money collection by those in real power in the Democratic Party (and I don't mean Dean).

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't think so.

I'm working within the Democratic Party and I am seeing the grassroots' involvement.

We are eleven months from the election and almost every state has a political organization up and running NOW. That is so unlike 2004 and every other year I've observed - and I've observed many elections.

Seriously, if this is how you feel then go do it. But don't expect everyone to follow you.

And, if you read my posts I'm saying "hang in to '06" and then cut loose?

:shrug:

we're pretty goddamned united on ALL the issues..

your post raises all kinds of issues very worth discussing ...

the first and most important point is that each and every citizen has a right, even a duty, to demand reasonable representation within the political party to which they belong ... that's the way it should be and that's the way it will be ... party operatives cannot demand allegiance; they have to earn it ... if no process exists to make the party more inclusive of those who feel alienated, a "third way" is certainly one of the options worth evaluating ...

second, forming a "third way" organization or a new party should not necessarily mean that some or all Democratic candidates will not be supported ... the goal of any new party or organization should be to support those candidates who best represent the views of its membership ... in some cases, this will mean running against Democrats; in other cases, it may mean getting fully behind the Democratic candidate ... the view would be to strike a balance between preferred policies and pragmatic politics ... no one should dictate to anyone else where that line should be drawn ... and perhaps at some point, establishing a full blown third party might become an end in itself ...

forming a new organization within the Party, e.g. Progressive Dems of America (PDA) or forming a completely new Party should not close off negotiations with Democrats ... in fact, should your "third way" become truly necessary, and i don't believe we're there quite yet, the primary motivation, at least in the beginning, should be to force the hand of the Democratic Party to negotiate and make compromises ... that's exactly what is NOT happening now ... i see virtually no acquiescence to the Party's left wing among the most prominent Democrats ... the problem with this, of course, is that this is an extremely alienating approach politically ... i will strongly support and vote for progressive Democrats; the others, including the infrastructure groups like the DNC, the DSCC and the DCCC, will not be receiving any further support from me anytime soon ...

so a split may ultimately be necessary ... but forming a new party should be done with the intent of providing better representation and not with the intent of "hurting" or "opposing" progressive elements in the Democratic Party ... whether a new third party could ever become viable remains to be seen ... viability, however, should not be the ultimate test or objective; at least not at the outset ... the goal would be organizing, educating and speaking as a united front ... instead of being relegated to the back rows in the Democratic Party, a block of activists with a message and a voice would be much more visible and much more audible ... with organization, the risk Democrats would take by ignoring this block of activist voters would be made much clearer ...

i continue to hope, probably naively, that the Democratic Party will come to understand that its "big tent" is increasingly being seen as bullshit ... it's increasingly clear that many feel excluded and unrepresented ... perhaps there is still time to reach across the divide and find common ground ... perhaps our numbers are so small that we will not be a politically effective force ... perhaps republicans will do so poorly because of the mess bush has made that those who are more issues focussed than party focussed will not matter that much in the near term ... or perhaps ignoring us and failing to seek negotiations with us will result in a rebellion that no party can afford ...

ABB is dead ... some still comfort themselves that we all "fell into line" the last time ... they are deceiving themselves ... yes, we hate bush and the republican tyranny every bit as much as they do but we cannot stand by to be brushed aside any longer ... the war must be ended now; corporatism must be ended now; meek voices must become more combative now ... if the Party continues to fail to see us as comrades, perhaps they will someday have to deal with us as foes ...

it is we who seek compromise; it is they who ignore their own constituents ... i hope a new party is not needed; i fear you're right that it will soon be ...

to prepare for what comes after that. The NEW DRE Machines will be in place in most of America due to HAVA ACT Funding and Bushies interfering through Diebold and the other DRE Machine purveyors.

So...'06 is the LAST GASP OF DEMS to keep preaching to our Choir that Anybody But Bush is worth a vote...We have a "PLAN" and "Stick With Us" we are your way to the future...just "trust us."

:-(

But that's with a caveat: I will give to those Democrats who do not compromise with the American Fascist Party (aka the Republican Party). Those who stand up for truth, justice, freedom and all our real American ideals. I won't give a dime to any of the rest.

"Since Clinton lost the House?"

huh?

You think I'm a Feep? :rofl:

.... so when are you going to change your party affiliation?

And explain how Clinton "lost the house."

I think the grassroots movement across the country really was born during the good doctor's campaign and became an awesome $-raising machine in the 2004 presidential campaign. I don't think they were marginalized at all. The grassroots movement became a power to be reckoned with, well deservedly so in my opinion, and is alive and well.

Power to the people.

to support what he wanted. The "DLC" has fought us every step of the way..think: Lieberman/Hillary/Biden.

We didn't have the FULL support of our Dem Party and neither does DEAN...They see him as an "experiment" before we go back to the days of "Lobbyist" in every back pocket.

Many Dems in Power are looking for a DeLay and Abramoff for the Left to SAVE THEIR BUTTS! The rest of us want "Truth, Honesty, Integrity and Transparency" to be back in our Government. I'm wondering how long it's been since any one of the above categories were apparent in Dem Management...given how they've caved over and over and over to the Repugs.

Maybe it was all a Fantasy? Whatever...it's time those of us looking for VALUES...took BACK THE DEM PARTY before they cave to some new "Hurdy Gurdy Man Savior" who will sell "bells and whistles and Promises...that are never kept.

It's CLEAN OUT TIME!!!! Get the Vacuum CLEANERS...SUCK THEM UP AND DUMP!!!

and start over. Only Paul Wellstone types may apply.

A movement has to be about something more than a person. Dean, for all the things he did well, followed on the voters on the war, and never made his campaign about anything bigger than sticking a finger in Dem's eyes.

If you were old enough to remember the 60's, and I am assuming from your post that you are not, then you would recognize the difference between a grass roots movement and the Dean machine that rode grass roots disgust but didn't have the horsepower to bring it home.

Over 50. How can you possibly assume my age from my post? Just because you don't agree with me does not mean I'm too "young" - reads stupid - to "get it."

I don't think the Dems should split, I just think they need to move to a more populist candidate, preferably a progressive.

And don't demean or understimate the grassroots movement out there. It will be saddled by an appropriate candidate who will "ride it home."

First, NC has a variety of Dems and a variety of Rs. If you won't be happy until Mike McIntyre hugs Nancy Pelosi, then you will never be happy. But remember, McIntyre will vote for Pelosi to be speaker over an R. Learn to live with it.

Second, Dean did not "instigate" grass roots valiantly or any other way, and although the new chair of the Dems in NC said he wants a grass roots operation, the DNC hasn't even been much help.

Third, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Fourth, what are you doing in terms of grass roots organizing in NC? DU is great, but it sure isn't grass root organizing. What you will find if you do are NCarolinians who believe a little of Waxman says, a little of what Murtha says, and little of what McIntyre says. You get them to vote Democratic instead of complaining that no one is pure enough for you in NC, then you have done something worthwhile. Until then . . . using your word . . . ENOUGH already.

And know who the new NC Dem Chair is....... Dean did give money to NC for Grassroots activism. Around $45,000 which hasn't been given by DNC in a long while if ever. NC is a huge state and $45,000 isn't alot for that big a territory...but he made an effort to give us the "first money" because he saw activists like myself and others who had worked really hard since 2000.

If you read the thread...you would have seen that I'm active and put my money and time where my "mouth on DU is." But, I know that lots of us don't have time to read every post on a thread here.

So...I'm taking the time here to set you straight. Peace!

for the 1 Republican party...I don't see how this is going to help us. We're more likely to vote on the issues and they're more likely to vote Republican for the sake of just voting Repub.

actually even a fourth, if you factor in South for Dems...the "Green Dog Dems."

I'm saying we need a Coalition of the most Progressive....Left of the Progressive Dems in some ways...but picking up some issues from the Green Dogs and DNC. DLC has to GO!!!!!!

I do not believe that the DLC has as much power in the Democratic party as some on DU believe. Sure it has a loud mouth, and at some point it had more power. But now, I think it makes a lot of noise and says crazy things to get attention. . .kinda like ms coulter.

Ugh. Not pretty.

Consider the daily threads like this.

....we sense a big vote swing in '06 away from the repugs and if all we have in place are 'soft' Dems, nothing is going to change....the corps will again swing their money behind the Dems they can buy....we NEED something progressive....

We get very little support...

Support from who? I'm up here in no man's land and it seemed like our state party and other orgs didn't even have a map with our region on it. Then we got large and in charge and things have changed. We aggressively grew our local party with no help from anywhere. We also raised a lot of money. It took massive effort. We recruited over 700 volunteers. We did all this in pretty rural, thoroughly red county. Now everyone in state politics, and even a few in national I'm proud to say, are well aware of what we are capable of here. They all know where to find us and they do, often.

We didn't split, we acted completely independently and knew nothing but success on almost every count. No, we didn't split, but then again, we didn't wait for anyone to do it for us either.

Julie

As this is democratic underground, advocating for a third party, or a split in the democratic party is not really part of the reason for the existence of this site.

DISCLAIMER::::As a TOTALLY personal (IE- NON-MODERATOR) statement here: We all have heroes within the democratic party- why not advocate for their ideas instead of attempting to toss the whole system as it stands now?