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BobcatJH Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:23 PM
Original message
"V for Vendetta" and the power of ideas
A leader who came to power under questionable circumstances. A government relying on fear, intimidation and lies to keep its citizens in line. A people misled by a media outlet serving as a mouthpiece for the administration. A society exchanging civil liberties for protection. A nation that persecutes gays and Muslims.

Oh yeah, and "V for Vendetta" was pretty good, too.

Joking aside, James McTeigue's wonderful interpretation of Alan Moore's graphic novel offers viewers a dark vision of the future. While set in a world several steps away from the present day, "V for Vendetta" poses a "What if?" that today's audiences must recognize, a warning that must be heeded.

"V for Vendetta" brings us to a post-World War III England, where a totalitarian regime uses fear and deception to keep its citizens in line. When one vigilante, V (Hugo Weaving), begins showing people the truth, he begins a roller-coaster ride toward revolution. In the course of his work, he rescues a young woman, Evey (Natalie Portman), who, as she learns of the truth, becomes an ally to V as he plots his greatest act of vengeance against the state.

Throughout, the citizens are confronted with two truths – the truth as presented by the government through a Fox News doppelganger and the truth as presented by V. When people begin realizing that the latter is far more accurate than the former, the government begins tightening its grip on its citizens with even more deadly zeal, using a combination of fear-mongering and force to keep control. But that control gets harder and harder to exert as V continues to play his role and the British continue to awake to what's going on.

While set in a fictitious future, the premise behind "V for Vendetta" is strongly grounded in the present day, just as the graphic novel's vision was strongly grounded in the time of its original publication in the 1980s. It would be hard to not recognize the comparisons between the totalitarian England and the course the Bush administration has set for America. Once you see the movie, ask yourself if the story behind "V for Vendetta" is that fanciful. Ask yourself whether it can happen here. Ask yourself if the frightening rhetoric of the religious right isn't simply a prelude of what's to come.

The response from right-wingers like Joe Scarborough and Michael Medved won't be hard to predict. They'll say the movie glorifies treason and terrorism. They'll say the movie sympathizes with the "homosexual agenda." They'll say the movie doesn't appeal to Middle America. And when they say these things, notice the irony, because they're attempting to do the same thing the authoritarian government tries to do in the movie: Kill an idea.

Because, to me, the ideas of this movie are far more important than the action. No explosions are as powerful as the idea of one nation collectively saying, "It doesn't have to be like this." No action sequences are as in-your-face as one person tired of the status quo. No bloodletting is as violent as one people deciding that the current administration has been in power long enough. How it happened in "V for Vendetta" is far less important than why it happened.

Several performances stood out in "V for Vendetta." Weaving was impressive as V, the vigilante who both avenged past hardships and woke a comatose nation with his actions. Portman's Evey gave V something he was drastically missing – a caring, human side. But Evey was there for far more than her support. She herself was the product of people who had spoken out against the repressive regime – led ruthlessly by a wonderful John Hurt – and who had paid dearly for their protests. Evey's change during the movie personified the feelings with which her nation was coming to grips.

Most impressive was Stephen Rea's Finch, an investigator charged with bringing V to justice. As he dug deeper into the case, however, Finch came to realize that things weren't as cut-and-dried as he thought. When he became a victim of the same regime that V had decided to rebel against, Finch soon saw his government for what it was. His conscience wouldn't let him remain a cog in the machine he realized was more of an enemy to England than was V.

And in Finch is where the true lesson from "V for Vendetta" lies. When confronted with evidence of the true nature of his government, he did what so many in this country have been unable to do under the Bush administration: Think for himself. Finch was able to see past the lies. He was able to recognize the shades of gray in what was being sold as a black-and-white world. He was able to form his own opinion based on the evidence, evidence he treated skeptically and refused to take at face value.

Think of what we know about the Bush administration. Think of the lies surrounding Iraq, Hurricane Katrina and warrantless wiretapping, among many others. Think of the preference this government gives fear and protection over civil liberties. Think of how its critics are shouted down and marginalized for speaking truth to power. The evidence is there. While support for the administration is waning, many Americans still haven't come to grips with how disastrous the Bush presidency has been for the nation.

Sure, we need more Vs in America. And by that, I don't mean people ready to blow up the White House. No, I'm not talking about terrorism. I'm talking about people who tire of business-as-usual and who decide to use their power to force change. But more Vs is a direct extension of there being more Finches, people who are willing and able to wake up from their slumber and search for the truth.

It is important to note the role V envisions himself playing in a post-totalitarian England. He doesn't do what he does to seize power so much as he does it to empower the people. Once they're able to think for themselves, one man's vigilantism won't be needed. It will have been replaced by a well-informed people armed with ideas. And ideas, as "V for Vendetta" proves, are bulletproof.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ideas are viruses
just watch this one spread
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup I agree...

V comes along at a time when people are ready to consider those issues seriously.

On another note, there were many literary and musical illusions in the movie: Sex Pistols (several times), Zorro, 1984, Phantom of the Opera, etc. etc.


It is simply a great movie.
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent post and analysis, BobcatJH .......
I've not seen the movie but all the buzz has been positive. The trailers are intriguing and hopefully the "hidden" message will resonate with the american people. We used to be a freedom loving populace, now we are acting like a scared shitless group of praying fanatics.

I for one can not wait till the awakening happens to the repugs and they finally see how much damage the chimp has done to our country.

BTW, welcome to DU :hi:
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Conversation at the feed store this morning.
They are disgusted. They know how I feel, they know where I am on the political spectrum and they usually give me a friendly ribbing.

Today they were expressing serious doubts about what is going on, they are depressed about it, frustrated and getting very angry (FINALLY!). They have often been like this but today it was palpable and they were more vocal than ever.

I mentioned "V" and they were interested. They were talking about how the farmers need to get together and just put a stop to all this crap. Again, I mentioned "V". I hope they go see it, they seemed interested. It seems this movie has come at the right time.

I abhor the violence and do not advocate it but the ideas behind the violence are powerful and being expressed by more than just "us" now.

I agree with you about Finch. He was an interesting character to watch.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. I have a question?
In past stories like Zorro and Robin Hood, the main character is a member of the aristocracy... The message is the same in both characters: Only the aristocracy can save us but history proves it is the aristocracy that generally causes most problems in society with their greed and inept rulers like bushie. Is the main character in this movie a member of the ruling class?
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No. He isn't.....he's one of the victims....
I wouldn't want to reveal more, but there are understandable reasons for what he does to the individuals in the movie. Perhaps not justifiable in a legal sense, but understandable.

He is also, in several ways most importantly, a product and creation of the system that he fights.

There is certainly some sense of justice. Not all of his actions are totally cruel and senseless.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. good box office gives a message
I'll go see it... The first time I ever saw a standing ovation in a movie theater i was watching Fahrenheit 9/11 in Denver.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Warning, spoilers!
It's never really answered who he is, but it's safe to say he's not a member of the ruling class. All that we know about him (at least in the original comic, I haven't gotten the chance to see the movie yet) is that he was once interned at Larkhill, one of the concentration camps they set up for the radicals/socialists/gays/coloreds/etcetera, and while he was there he was subjected to medical experimentation. This would clearly imply that he was one of the "unacceptable" people, not a member of the Party.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. No, the Protaganist is an Anarchist to the core..
by definition, anarchists are not the ruling class..

and that's part of what makes this film so inspiring..
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Religious Right will do what they always do....
...falsly interpret the metaphors as literal suggestions. What they do with the Bible, they will do with all other allegory and/or metaphor. "He's blowing up a building!" they will cry. When what is really happening is an "idea" is exploding in the minds of the masses.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. exactly..
:shrug: but, we can't save the american taliban from their own superstitions and ignorance... we can only hope to spread enlightened ideas to those willing to hear it...
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. I just wish...
it didn't condone the blowing up of buildings. I can think of other ways to make a political point... :shrug:
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. symbolism - it didn't "condone" random blowing up of buildings
the condoned tearing down the institutions that enslaves the masses.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Very good. You can see here how much I agree.
Edited on Tue Mar-21-06 01:33 PM by Neil Lisst


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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. these are fabulous...
I love your work... :loveya: :applause:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. Great toons, thanks! (NT)
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent post BobCat..
The film is really quite inspirational in just how you framed it..

and i agree that we need more Finch's in our world, and played brilliantly by Stephen Rey, who i first took notice of in his role in the Crying Game..

i have to say, i'm really quite amazed that the Hollywood establishment allowed this film to be distributed widely, and I'm a bit surprised that it hasn't received the critisim (unless i missed it) that somehow hollywood is trying cultivate subversion and anarchy among the masses here.





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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The sheep are to blind to see the meaning behind this film.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. I went to see it yesterday and absolutely
loved it. Now I will to round up some people who will want or need to see it and see it again. Usually I don't see movies twice (F 9/11, Crash, and Thelma & Louise), but I want to see 'V' again.

I just loved it. And it is so damn timely! Goddess bless Hollywood!
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. guess there is no middle america anymore
theres just the 2% royalty that owns everything and the 98% rest of.


V for Vendetta was the number 1 film this week grossing over $25,642,340


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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. I will tell you about my experience with this movie --
I had tears leaking out of my eyes for fully one-third of the movie, especially at the end. That's no exaggeration. The woman next to me kept moaning every now and then. When I stood up after the movie ended, I had to willfully keep my mouth closed or else, stricken with the onset of a sudden case of Turets Syndrome, I would have yelled "Fuck you Mr. Bush!" outloud.

All I can say is that the movie was profoundly disturbing, and this comes from someone who already knew that my dear nation is on the slippery slope toward a repressive regime.

My husband and I are going to see it again tonight.

This movie touched something in me that made me realize that if push ever came to shove in some heinous, surreal future, I would be one of the ones that would say, "this far and no further".
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. I was stunned with a feeling of exhilaration and inspiration...
but i'm an anarchist at heart...
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Theide Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. Perhaps not so far off.
If we continue down the path set by this admin, I can see us sliding down that slippery slope with ever-increasing speed.

We must never forget that many of the things we bemoan are the very things over which our founding fathers saw fit to rebel against the Crown. If push came to shove, would you be a sheep, or would you be willing to stand and risk your life, your fortune, and your sacred honor? I, for one, would choose to stand, and I would follow that stand to it's logical conclusion.

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. That would be the True Patriot Act..
:patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot:
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Left Below Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. A march in Washington DC - on 9/11/06- by millions wearing 'V'
masks in time to effect the election in November would send a message to Joe Sixpack and he might awaken and see where Bush's Christian Fascism is taking this country.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. i know... someone is going to make a killing replicating the masks
hmm.. maybe that's an idea i should look into..
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. In the first scene with Finch
I just knew he would be in a position to stop the final attack, and that he would not.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. I didn't know the story line..
because i hadn't read the book...

the entire story was a big surprise from start to finish...
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RoadRunner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Damn good review, Bobcat
You just captured the true essence of this fine movie, a must see for all DUers. Great post.
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Debs Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
20. Saw it this evening
Great movie, great review I have nothing to add except I think Rhea is ALWAYS on top of his game

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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. Wow... Your review blows me away.
I typically do not go to see movies during the week, but I am making it a point to go and see this one tonight. I had read the reviews online and was considering going to see it, but now I feel it is absolutely necessary. Lately I have not posted on here as much as I normally do because I was starting to feel all our efforts were useless against this criminal regime; however, maybe your review along with seeing the movie will reinvest me. I'm tired but I'll be dammed if I'm defeated.
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porkrind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. Excellent movie
and very relevant. Good review. BobcatJH, thanks.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. And it's ENTERTAINING!!!!
This is an easy sell. Tell people it's like the Matrix. It's an action movie. The political thought it provokes is icing on the cake. Encourage everyone to see this movie.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Amazing review/analysis!
Kicked, recommended, and welcome to DU!! :patriot:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. I saw it this past Friday and when it ended I wanted to stand
up and clap and shout but I think everyone who was in the theater was too stunned to speak....even Teenagers that were attending commenting what a good movie it was....It doesn't hurt that Natalie Portman was excellent and she is appealing to the teens and 20 year olds!!

Great Analysis of the movie!! I want a mask and a bumper sticker!!
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
35. Kicked for renewed discussion (contains spoilers)
Welcome to Du BobCatJH :toast:

I found the movie very interesting on various levels. One of which was the understanding that it was agitprop. The premise of a lone hero saving a people from a corrupt government appeals to a wide demographic - of course there are DUer's like us, but self-professed rebels of all sorts, including most young people must have also identified with V for at least some of the time.

Since we are to understand that the buildings were unpopulated when they were destroyed, their destruction is a call for the death of a symbol, not intended to cause loss of life.

Still, we all know the film will ultimately be dismissed by the right wing as a film asking its viewers to identify with terrorists. It is important that the plural "terrorists" is used rather than the singular "terrorist," this encourages multiple images in our minds, predominantly Saddam Hussein and Usama Bin Laden - rather than a lone actor, Hugo Weaving as V.

It is amusing watching Bush's propaganda people screw up their response to this movie. It is set in and is about England at the time the graphic novel was written. But they can't help seeing it as a direct attack on Bush. It betrays a certain insecurity, does it not? In a night at the local multiplex, one isn't often confronted with the portrayals of secretive administrations which use fear to control their people, which have significant control of the media, and whose methods involve an intentional framed calamity for which the government then provided the cure. If Bush has been such a great president, why worry if some left-wing loonies are going to - gulp - see connections between the Bush administration and the far more reactionary government of this film? Remember that in the film the leaders of the government are demonstrated to be incredibly corrupt and to have committed heinous crimes against humanity; again, if Bush has been such a great president, why assume anyone is pointing any fingers at Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, Wolfie, O'Splotchy, etc. etc.?

When you are saying stuff like "this movie is a blatant political attack on the Bush administration," you are yielding to your political opponent's frames - our government rules by fear, the media is bought and paid for, loyalty to country is flagrantly conflated with support for terrorists, and our sons and daughters should never have been sent to fight Bush's ill-advised (even, of course, at the time) war in Iraq. And that is all to the good.

I urge all Duer's to continue to see the film and make up your own mind. And take someone with you, maybe someone you think is ripe for a shot of revolutionary zeal.


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punistation Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
36. Didn't like it at all.
Hated it... but then, I've been re-reading the book for years now, so I went in expecting to be disapointed.

The point of *WHY* V did what he did was replaced with generic revenge stuff, V's melodrama disappeared after the first 15 minutes, each character's ending was completely re-written (for the worse), and a romantic relationship between Evey and V?! UGH. One day Hollywood will realise Batman doesn't NEED a love-interest in every movie.

Nope. Didn't like it at all. And the "unveiling of masks" bit at the end was cliche and trite. And the masses were still sheep, just given something new and sexy to follow instead of Fox News. This movie was about FASHION, and how people are fickle.

Loved the action and Knife-speed effect, though. Like Sin City, it's thrilling seeing your favourite comic characters onscreen. ^__^
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
37. one of my 16 y.o. students recommended it to me,said I'd love it & gave
it a great review, too.
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