So how do we frame the fact we have to raise taxes to pay for things.

We all know that Americans have been supporting things like a single payer system, cutting the deficit but at the same time we have an opposition that has yet to get that taxes pay for this stuff.

How do we deflect that?

that means.

No garbage pick-up. No cleaning of streets. No welfare, no food stamps, no medical unless you have the cash upfront.

No schools, no roads, no traffic lights (when they burn out? Drive very very carefully) No snow removal.

No transit. Can't get to work without? Oh well.

No nothing whatsoever. Unless you have the cash upfront.

Should last about a week.

slash taxes and still spend like drunken sailors on holiday.

This way we outchicken the Republicans.

Americans would die.

But then, they're dying now.

Maybe hitting absolute rock bottom fast is a kinder way in the long run. I dunno. I just dunno any more.

We can go on as is, until things do finally hit bottom...or we can suffer the fatal blow fast.

Suffer slowly, or suffer fast; no good choices.

the Republicans are just fearmongering tax cutting incompetent fools.

Damn I cannot spell!

Remember the whole "read my lips" deal?

Seriously, when he was campaigning he said in a speech "read my lips, no new taxes". Then, about the first thing he had to do when he took office was raise taxes to get the budget under control from Reagan's budget deficits. As bad as thet were,t hey weren't even close to what junior has managed to do.

Clinton took 8 Trillion dollar deficit when he took office from 12 years of republican! We need to go back to that!

If they don't like it confiscate all there ill gotten gains.

Peace and prosperity and the longest economic expansion ever.

Just let the cuts expire, and fix the estate and capital gains horseshit.

wouldn't a real prezident at least talk to Americans about that, given the fact he was so chatty
last week?
This is OUR country, not only his.
I am so disgusted.

not taxes. Second, tie everything to an increase in WAGES. With higher wages at the bottom, tax revenue increases.

Third, start floating the idea of FAIR taxes according to the benefit one derives from living in the US.

taxes when the price of the home goes up.

Indeed, there is no free lunch.

:popcorn:

For example, conservatives are always saying, "you can spend your money better than the government can." So ask them if they'd enjoy a system where you paid no taxes but were responsible for:

* Maintaining several miles of the local interstate and federal and state highways at your own expense.

* Supporting a certain number of hurricane victims, disabled veterans, and starving children, also out of your own pocket.

* Contracting with a private firefighting company to come out if your house catches fire -- or being too cheap to sign a contract and having to negotiate terms while the house is actually burning.

* Making a national tour of meat processors, dairy farms, and the like every few weeks to make sure the food you buy is safe for you and your children.

* Hiring a private security guard to check on your house periodically and detain any suspicious loiterers.


Ask them also if they'd be prepared to accept the fact that your neighbors might not be as conscientious as you were about keeping up their stretch of the roads, might be willing to let the poor starve to the point where they came rampaging out of the cities to loot the suburbs, might contract with low-bid firefighters who didn't show up until the entire neighborhood was burning, or might hire poorly trained thugs for protection who molested your wife or assaulted your children instead of doing serious patrolling.

Liberals have generally been too nice to use the reductio ad absurdum the way conservatives do. But we could sure get a lot of mileage out of it.

like epogin?"

Raise taxes marginally on the wealthiest, and give tax cuts to the middle class and poor and to small businesses. Not one single Republican voted for the Clinton/Gore deficit-busting budget yet each one of them bitched vociferously before microphones that it would tank the economy. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

Oh, and close the loopholes of the traitor corporations that base offshore and don't pay taxes at all.

I heard a motto for the Dems this fall from Newt Gingrich of all people: HAD ENOUGH?

Although the republicans have successfully been using this same fram, the Bush admin as fooked it up so bad, I think we can steal it right out from under them.

.....over for 8 long years and now folks we have to claw our way out of this or our country will financially go completely under. Put the blame right where it belongs.:hi:

Personally, I think they should start off by raising taxes only on the Neocons. But since I believe in fairness and the constitution, I realize that that would not be constitutionally correct.

We also have to make sure people understand the concept of what is "FAIR" in tax fairness....

The vast majority of discretionary dollars go to the military.

The military protects wealth and freedoms. (freedom = power)

As it is, "income" is taxed, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. They talk about taxing INCOME fairly, but current income isn't the issue, ACCUMULATED income is the issue.

Those with the wealth and freedoms should pay their share for protecting it.

It's no different for people with larger houses paying more for homeowners insurance.

Because until that's done, ANY message we put out there is going to be twisted, out-shouted and slimed by the neocon media.

Then, and only then, we can begin the messy job of putting things right.

What'll work? HONESTY. People crave it after 6 years of NBL (nuttin' but lies).