I have a question (re Rove, TO, etc) and don't want a bloodbath over

if Leopold shoulda, or how come Fitz didn't or any of the other million ways this thread can go way off topic, run up a 100+ posts of everyone taking their stand on who they support, think is crap, etc.

I just want an answer from someone who knows without getting all bogged down in that other crap. (Anyone want to place a bet?)

So here goes:

If the prosecutor knows that Libby, Rove and all the others were likely to wind up with a Presidential pardon, could he somehow hold an indictment in some way so that it wouldn't be affected by a pardon? I know that there could be some generic/blanket type pardon, but to do that seems that they would risk more stuff coming to light and they'd prefer to keep so many things about this (mis)Administration from ever seeing the light of day.

If there were some more specific pardon so that they did'nt implicate themselves further, couldn't an indictment come down that wasn't covered under the pardon?

I hope that muddy question makes sense to someone out there who knows how this stuff works.

And to all who refrained from making this thread one more extension of TO's own discussion forum, a major thank you.

Sadly, the process of a presidential pardon has become totally political. That was not the original intent. Hence, since the only reason Rove agreed to cough up the evidence he had on Cheney was to remain in the White House through the first week in November, this whole debacle was about political cover.

The logic goes a little something like this:

1) The grand jury returns an indictment of two charges...

a) Perjury

and

b) Lying to investigators

2) Fitz shows the indictment to Rove, having learned through the course of his investigation and the White House's own admissions that Cheney was the person who ultimately gave the order to blow Plame's cover. With that in mind, he decides to use the indictment as leverage against Rove because he knows that he stands a good chance of charging Cheney with a much bigger crime than perjury if he can get his hands on the proof from inside the inner sanctum known as Rove's desk.

3) Rove is painted into a corner and knows that he's down to a pair of choices...

a) Stand trial (which will bring about his immediate resignation from his cushy job at the White House)

or

b) Give Fitz what he wants

4) Rove choses option b and asks for a few days to get his affairs in order. During that time, he chats with * and explains the following...

Dubya's career is in real jeopardy. 3 state legislatures either have decided or will consider an impeachment resolution in the near future. The only thing preventing the commencement of impeachment proceedings in the House is Sensenbrenner's chairmanship and Hastert's status as Speaker. If the Democrats regain control of the House in November, odds are that he'll be impeached.

How, then, can impeachment be avoided? The only way is to keep the Right in control of Congress. How can that be done? The only way is for Rove to keep his job. What is the cost, then, of doing whatever is necessary for Rove to keep his job? Dubya has to decide to throw Cheney overboard and tell Rove than he can turn over the evidence he has to Fitz. Dubya issued those orders.

The remaining trick, then, is how to keep Fitz from charging Cheney before the first week in November. That is the remaining variable and part of the reason, in my humble opinion, why Fitz's office has been so tight-lipped for the past 6 weeks.

As for the possibility of an indictment which is beyond the reach of presidential pardon, I'm not aware of any because the process is political. I've read that some scholars believe that Clinton could have pardoned himself for obstruction of justice but that's straying pretty far afield.