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If our troops continue to die in Iraq, who will be the biggest beneficiary

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:25 PM
Original message
If our troops continue to die in Iraq, who will be the biggest beneficiary
....politically, in this country? After todays debate, where most of the Senate voted to "stay the course", only a few will benefit from the debate. The #1 beneficiary could be John Kerry if this war turns even more south than it already is. But to listen to Rumsfeld and General Casey today, there is a withdrawal in the works. They may withdraw 6-8000 troops and not replace them, just from normal rotation. However, it is doubtful that any of the 86 Senators that voted to stay the course will benefit any from their vote today. The one person that stands to win is John Kerry, imo...
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. So, are you thinking Kerry/Feingold in '08?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How did you read my mind?
:) But you did notice that Hillary, Biden, Bayh, and a few others did not cast their lot with Kerry today. I think their votes may have been more political than anything else...
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I watched Hillary on Larry King yesterday
He mentioned Kerry to the group and she swallowed her tongue.

Btw, I'm in Lakewood. Not too far for mind reading? :evilgrin:
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don' t think that the deaths have hit the right families yet...
not that any of the families are the right families to lose someone but, I think as this thing goes on and on and the families who have lost someone or are taking care of a disabled vet will start to speak out and some may change their tunes. I am surprised more hasn't happened by now.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd say Kerry AND Feingold AND Murtha
Edited on Thu Jun-22-06 05:57 PM by blm
Kerry and Murtha are taking most of the heat - that's OK - they've been there before and are well used to it.

Feingold did very well and sees that standing WITH likeminded Dem senators is a stronger platform for the issue and your goal on that issue.

I will also add that NONE of them are doing what they do for personal benefit - their sincerity in doing it for the troops and this country and Iraq is palpable.
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't see this really helping Kerry at all
He went after bush back during the election when bush talked about a time table for withdrawing and Kerry said it was the stupidest thing you could do.

As has always been the case with Kerry, he has given them something else to show he "flip flops" in the wind pretty much consistantly.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wrong - pre-election Iraq is a different story than POST 3 elections Iraq
Edited on Thu Jun-22-06 05:49 PM by blm
that has degraded into civil war.

Or haven't you noticed the difference?

And there has been no flip-flops from Kerry - that's a RW spin machine creation.
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No,
I've certainly noticed the difference, but this is a nation that votes based on sound bites.

He also wanted to put more troops in at one time. If he gets very far into the elections, he'll get blasted again with all the different stances he takes.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The stances are all very consistent when you put them altogether and I no
doubt expect them all to be put together just fine. Wanting to stabilize Iraq on Jan 20, 2005 so the UN and NATO could help take over the mission was a reasonable way to get the troops home faster.


People understand the difference between the ability to stabilize Iraq in Jan 2005 and the shitstorm of a civil war we are now in BECAUSE of Bush's poor strategies.


You shouldn't be so skeered - the minefields CAN be navigated once you know where they are.
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well, reasoned repsonse and all that


... but, you haven't convinced me. ;)

John Kerry got hammered in the last run.... not being able to beat that clown soundly says they didn't do the very things you are talking about here.

Hell, I'm one of the ones like that poll supposedly says that won't vote for Hillary, Gore, or Kerry.

I'm just hoping it doesn't come to that so maybe it's a bias.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Recall with a clear mind - Kerry WON every matchup he had with Bush
and did so decisively. He came up with better policy positions and won all 3 debates irrefutably.

Did the DNC organizing win its matchup against the RNC's organization?

Did the left media win its matchup with the RW message machine in its daily duties?

And STILL, Kerry won - BushInc had to pull out all the stops, suppress votes, purge voter rolls, use a Bin Laden tape, and rig machines all over the country to stay in power.
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RangerSmith Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm sorry man...
But until it's recognized that even IF 500,000 votes were stolen... we got beat badly in 2004 by even having that election get semi close against George W. Bush, unquestionably the worst President this country has ever seen.

We won't oust these fuckers in 08 either if we don't come to terms with that reality.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The reality is that a weak Dem infrastructure hurt us in 2000 and 2004.
There was no strong Dem party infrastructure in either Florida or Ohio that could deal with all the crap that went on in those states.

I would say that Dean has been working to correct those problems from within. Don't know for absolute sure, but I hear he is.

The left media is now getting some legs - - still pretty weak, TOO weak, but we'll soon find out this fall how they match up against the RW message machine.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. AL GORE - since he nixed it from the get-go
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Cindy Sheehan...
and the anti-war movement.

No politician will "benefit" from this... they are just catching up. Cindy has been right all along.

TC
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. I loathe the premise of the OP and don't think it bears discussing. nt.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. As much as you loathe it Phoebe...
there are political winners and losers in decisions such as these. To stick our heads in the sand and pretend otherwise, because it sounds unseemly, will not get you the change you surely must want?
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. The question has a cynicism and callousness that does not reflect well on
you, us, or our party. And I really think it is quite out of character for you. Dead soldiers are more than pawns in a political game. To ask how "more" of them could be to someone's benefit is just beyond the pale. I often read, enjoy, respond and recommend your posts. Not this one.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Phoebe, you are correct.... I tried to edit but..
I was late. It does sound cynical and callous. I apologize.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
21.  You're still one of my favorite posters
I know I wished I could edit a few of mine and time was out. It's so easy to get caught up in the strategeries of elections!
:pals:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I agree with that, Phoebe, but, I considered kentuck's character when I
made the choice to reply, feeling that he didn't mean it to come off as callous as it sounded.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-22-06 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. the contractors making $180,000 plus perks and bonus's a year
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