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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:19 AM
Original message
Be skeptical of the Hillary supporters trashing Gore story.
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 09:20 AM by blm
Think back to what GOP operatives did in 2002-3.

Early on we had postings here at DU that were supposedly from vets attacking Kerry from the left - - the site used SOUNDED like a lefty site, wintersoldier, but it was eventually traced back to........ Texas and the swifts.

Early in the primary we heard from Am. Spectator magazine that Kerry was going to call out Dean for performing abortions.

And remember in NH how operatives were trying to use the Clark camp to plant the story of Kerry's "affair" that never happened. Clark was too smart to bite for them - but they sure did try.

Think of all the trolls who operated here at DU and how they gained cover, some of them for over a year.

Be skeptical of ANYTHING dealing with possible Dem primary candidates.

If WE here at DU aren't really familiar with the source or the group, then what are the chances that it's legit?


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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. good advice. n/t
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. as usual k & r nt
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm EXTREMELY skeptical of it.
I just read through the big thread about it, and am convinced that the group in question is a RW front group whose mission is to sow division within the Democratic ranks.

I'm looking at the site and it looks pretty damn flaky to me. The Media Reports page is full of broken links, and articles from New York Post and Newsmax. http://www.hillarynow.com/media.htm
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yep, that's exactly what I thought too. When I clicked on
the Yahoo link, all the ads were for conservative sites of the nastier type.

Very bizzare.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Checked the site, seems legit.
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 09:35 AM by Solon
Whois dump:

$ whois HillaryNow.com

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.


Domain Name: HILLARYNOW.COM
Registrar: INTERCOSMOS MEDIA GROUP, INC. D/B/A DIRECTNIC.COM
Whois Server: whois.directnic.com
Referral URL: http://www.directnic.com
Name Server: NS1.DIRECTNIC.COM
Name Server: NS0.DIRECTNIC.COM
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
EPP Status: clientUpdateProhibited
EPP Status: clientTransferProhibited
EPP Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Updated Date: 19-Aug-2005
Creation Date: 21-Aug-2003
Expiration Date: 21-Aug-2006

>>> Last update of whois database: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:30:42 EDT <<<

NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date the
registrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry is
currently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expiration
date of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoring
registrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database to
view the registrar's reported date of expiration for this registration.

TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our Whois
database through the use of electronic processes that are high-volume and
automated except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or
modify existing registrations; the Data in VeriSign Global Registry
Services' ("VeriSign") Whois database is provided by VeriSign for
information purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining information
about or related to a domain name registration record. VeriSign does not
guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a Whois query, you agree to abide
by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use this Data only
for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data
to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone,
or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to VeriSign (or its computer systems). The compilation,
repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of VeriSign. You agree not to
use electronic processes that are automated and high-volume to access or
query the Whois database except as reasonably necessary to register
domain names or modify existing registrations. VeriSign reserves the right
to restrict your access to the Whois database in its sole discretion to ensure
operational stability. VeriSign may restrict or terminate your access to the
Whois database for failure to abide by these terms of use. VeriSign
reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and
Registrars.
Registration and WHOIS Service provided by directNIC.com

Intercosmos Media Group, Inc. provides the data in the directNIC.com
Registrar WHOIS database for informational purposes only. The information
may only be used to assist in obtaining information about a domain name's
registration record.

directNIC makes this information available "as is", and does not guarantee
its accuracy.


Registrant:
The Oral Majority
525 W. 49th St.
Miami Beach, FL 33140
US
3058645110


Domain Name: HILLARYNOW.COM

Administrative Contact:
Kunst, Robert P. theoralmajority@hotmail.com
525 W. 49th St.
Miami Beach, FL 33140
US
3058645110


Technical Contact:
Kunst, Robert P. theoralmajority@hotmail.com
525 W. 49th St.
Miami Beach, FL 33140
US
3058645110


Record expires on 08-21-2006
Record created on 08-21-2003

Domain servers in listed order:
NS0.DIRECTNIC.COM 204.251.10.100
NS1.DIRECTNIC.COM 206.251.177.2


By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree you will use this data only for
lawful purposes. You also agree that, under no circumstances, will you use
this data to: (a) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission by
email, telephone, or facsimile of mass, unsolicited, commercial advertising
or solicitations to entities other than the data recipient's own existing
customers; or to (b) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that send queries or data to the systems of any Registry Operator or
ICANN-accredited registrar.

The compilation, repackaging, dissemination, or other use of this WHOIS
data is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of
directNIC.com.

directNIC.com reserves the right to terminate your access to its WHOIS
database in its sole discretion, including without limitation, for
excessive querying of the database or for failure to otherwise abide by
this policy.

directNIC reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

NOTE: THE WHOIS DATABASE IS A CONTACT DATABASE ONLY.
LACK OF A DOMAIN RECORD DOES NOT SIGNIFY DOMAIN AVAILABILITY.


Seems to be run by the same guy that runs http://www.oralmajorityonline.com/

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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here's a hit on him.
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 09:50 AM by acmejack
Independent Democrats of Pinellas County Florida

http://votepinellas.com/PartyGroup.aspx?PartyGroupID=37

edit: Moving up in the world:

http://www.browardsoe.org/PartyGroup.aspx?PartyGroupID=13
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Doesn't mean all those advising him and funding him are - -
.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Exactly--maybe he's for real, but his backers?
Things that make ya go hmm...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. OK. Makes sense.
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TAPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. Their site seems legit but
I just have a super hinky feeling about them - I am very suspicious...

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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Kunst was behind it
He's a long time activist. He did the film "Florida Fights Back" about the stolen 2000 election (which is the first time I remember hearing of him). He's been drafting Hillary since 2002-2003. He also ran for governor in Florida and runs something called "Oral Majority". In other words, he's been around for quite a while.

Hillary Clinton Leaves Democrats Guessing In Iowa
By Jimmy Moore, 11/18/2003 3:03:11 AM

***

Bob Kunst, who started a Hillary Clinton for President website called HillaryNOW.com, urged the former First Lady to run in 2004 and has encouraged Democrats to vote for her as a write-in candidate in Iowa and New Hampshire.
***
When asked what he thought about a possible 2008 run for Clinton, Kunst said that would be too late.

***
He said that if she does not run in 2004, then it will make her the political equivalent of former Vice President Al Gore after his defeat to Bush in the 2000 election.

"If she doesn't , she's going to look like Al Gore, who walked away with his tail between his legs," Kunst concluded to the AP. http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?e42c809c-0a9f-4f25-a451-6d670f9b8cf5


Interestingly at the same gathering, "another Hillary Clinton for President supporter was banned by Iowa Democrat Party officials from distributing his "Draft Hillary 2004" paraphernalia inside the building."


Overall I really do think he means well. I don't think anyone believes he or his band of other Hillary supporters are representative of DU'ers who support or are leaning toward Hillary. He just doesn't like Gore (as evidenced by his remarks in the above excerpt) and would rather have Hillary.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. He may mean well, but what about GOPs USING his organization the way
they tried to use the Clark camp?

The guy may be earnest, but that doesn't preclude his earnestness being used to accomplish the goals of others.

This over the top tactic of his just reeks of being funded and manipulated by GOP operatives.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You think the Republicans gave him this idea? nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. I think earnest people can be manipulated completely unaware - recall
the Vietnam vet groups who had operatives working from within to try and push them into more violent protests? Same with the college groups.

This tactic has been in their handbook for decades, and they use it shamelessly.

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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. It wasn't just the Clark camp.
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 10:16 AM by Clark2008
Edwards came in second in Tennessee and Virginia because of them. Neither state requires political affiliation to vote in a primary and the GOPhers were - via websites and mailings - cajoling their own people to get out and vote for the least-viable (in a general election) of the viable Democratic candidates - John Edwards - in order to shut down Clark and hurt Kerry. They didn't have a primary to worry about, so they inflitrated ours.

I used to have links to these websites, but they're not valid anymore.

It was bad. Edwards had very little grassroots here and wasn't even polling all that well. Makes one wonder.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think every camp had GOP operatives in it - they bring their bag of
tricks into the camps to use on each other. Some of the crap gets used before more temperate advisors catch it.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. In CT only dems can vote in a Dem primary. Same with Repubs.
I think every state should have a law stating that. Crossover voting is bad for democracy. Everybody gets their chance in the general.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Whoa, I agree with you, at least in part
The guy's methods are very questionable and, quite honestly, I doubt that he's dealing with a full deck. (see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A49983-2003Nov16)

The GOP will try to capitalize on his crusade to draft Hillary, no doubt about it. They'll use whatever they can to take down Democratic leaders. They've been doing it for years with the MSM in tow. The GOP were distracted by Perot in the 90's and went after him but they were back to using 3rd parties again to undermine the Dems in 2000 when they helped fund Nader. Another thing, Kunst has been on Hannity and Colmes. He seems to crave attention and will do just about anything to get, including playing the fool to get his message out.

But back to your opening post where you asked if this guy/organization was legitimate and I believe it is. I provided you information that his organization & quest to draft Hillary is not new and by all accounts it is legitimate. Kunst is a solid Hillary backer and it was his idea to start this draft campaign. Also, fwiw, my husband spoke to Kunst after we watched his movie "Florida Fights Back". During that conversation Bob expressed huge disappointment in Gore for not pursuing legal action after the SCOTUS ruling ( :eyes: ). My husband is a huge Gore supporter and asked Bob where Gore was supposed to take legal action. Bob couldn't come with an answer except to say the only hope he saw for the Democratic party was Hillary in the White House. So, I believe he's legit based on the lengthy phone conversation my husband had with him back then. Kunst really wants Hillary to be president. I also, in part, blame my husband for this guy.

If you want to expand the question and ask whether or not he's above taking money from the right then ask that one. Then check the finances for his gubernatorial run (as an Independent) to see whether or not he accepted money from GOP backers.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I heard you - please don't confuse my straight style with condemnation....
I appreciate what you posted, and believe it's important to see all the facts. I was remiss in not thanking you for your effort.

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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. Remember the saying,"don't believe anything you hear and only.............
......half of what you see". :applause:
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh - I wrote them and told them they were acting like right-wingers.
They probably ARE right-wingers, but it's better to just call them on their stupidity:

Are you people insane?

First, protesting Gore because you're upset about the war in Iraq is downright stupid. Hillary supported it and Gore gave a scathing speech against it.

Second, Gore has more of a shot taking Tennessee - or any place else in the South and mid-West - than Hillary ever will.

Finally, it's bad form. Democrats need to stick together instead of protesting one another. You sound like a group of right-wingers.

I'm in Tennessee and support Wesley Clark, if you must know, but I still think you're making a HUGE mistake if your goal is to, indeed, give Hillary Clinton the nomination (she won't win the general election. This country is to gynophobic for that).

Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree-hugger.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Can we write this into the DU Rules, from your post?
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 10:33 AM by blondeatlast
"Be skeptical of ANYTHING dealing with possible Dem primary candidates."

Hell, it ought to be rule #1, AFAIC.

Damn good advice, blm.
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