The following Democrats voted FOR the Flag Burning Amendment

Lincoln-AR
Feinstein-CA
Salazar-CO
Bayh-IN
Landrieu-LA
Stabenov-MI
Dayton-MN
Baucus-MT
Nelson-NE
Reid-NV
Menendez-NJ
Johnson-SD
Rockefeller-WV

As far as I'm concerned this list is far too long. With 44 Democrats in the Senate, a vote requiring a two thirds majority should fall well short. However, it came down to one vote, and would have passed were it not for the following 3 Republicans crossing party lines to vote against the Amendment:

McConnell-KY
Chaffee-RI
Bennett-UT

While it seems foolish to me to actually vote against any of the dems who voted for the amendment, I think we can all agree that they really let us down here, even if the amendment was not passed. I would encourage everyone to email any and all democrats voting against it, and perhaps even a thank you to the republicans who voted with us. Just a possibility.

And while you're at it, email McCain to remind him that next time he has to vote with us if he wants to keep up the whole "maverick" bullshit.:eyes:

also remember that, from the very beginning of them talking about bringing this amendment up again, they've said they had 66 votes for it. Everyone knew they needed 67 so, as long as no one broke, the Dems who voted for this knew they could do it without consequence. If the amendment had passed, I'd be very pissed but, as it is, I'll give them a generous pass.

You give them a pass?

How nice of you. Let them play games with the Constitution of the United States and give cover to the GOP. If only the GOP voted to change the Constitution of the United States for this silly thing, then only the GOP would be standing out there alone on that plank. But because some people are so ready to give some Dems a GENEROUS PASS, Dems go out on the plank with the GOP and give all of us a huge black eye.

According to the paper, Carper said The Constitution was more important than changing it to deal with the imature deliquents (or whatever term he called them). Biden voted against because he said the wording they chose to use left a whole can of worms open for the definition of the word "desecration". Biden said it COULD mean flag burning, but it could also mean you couldn't wear stars and stripes boxers.

Delaware is one of the states who does have a flag law. It would be interesting to look up how many states that have a law use the word 'desecration' in its context. I felt the newspaper was trying to force feed the koolaid since the last few lines of the article were saying what repub was running against Carper, how she believes we need to protect the flag. Then they go onto say that even Delaware has a law against flag 'desecration'. Just wondering about the wording they chose.

Guess I'm in sync w/ SCOTUS on this one (for a change)

I think it's crazy to add this to the Constitution. I'm simply saying that, sometimes, it helps to remember how the game is played. If the repugs had seemed to be on the verge of getting that 67th vote, I'd be willing to be one of those Dems would have changed their vote. And if the repugs got another, another Dem would have switched.

There's so much to be outraged over with this administration, and so much energy demanded to address the issues that really threaten us, I just don't see too much point in flailing about angrily over an issue that we didn't lose on.

As I said, it was a GENEROUS PASS precisely because, in the end, it didn't much matter.

know for sure that there would only be 66 instead of 67. I guess that's just how 13 of the democrats feel about this particular issue, but that itself is what bothers me. Not only is this another example of how divided the party can be, but it makes me feel like there's something really wrong with them. I can live with someone from my party having a different opinion on an issue, but when it comes to this one I just can't see how I can respect them. This to me shows which guys really respect the constitution, and which ones are looking to degrade it with petty issues that clearly violate our most basic and important rights. Ahhh shit, this is the risk you take when you develop strong opinions. In the time being I'll just try to be happy that it didn't pass.

from me, sorry. this was complete BS, a complete waste of time and resources over a non-issue, and he went along with it.

my usual comment to him, "ken, if we wanted a conservative catholic republican in office, we could have voted for pete coors".

She is a totally useless piece of shit.

That would explain the vote.

I want to go down to San Francisco and burn a flag on the sidewalk in front of her office.

I can't stand her.

I'm not taking any chances of a republican taking her place on the Senate floor. We need allk the lefties we can get right now. :shrug:

I won't vote for a puke, but I won't vote for her either. It's a matter of principal.

She will win anyway, so my ballot won't matter in the election, but I'll feel better about it.

up for your principals. I haven't ever liked her, and haven't voted for her in any of the primaries. For me, it's not the worse of two evils, I don't want to even entertain the idea of a repuke winning. This Country is so divided it drives me nuts. Peace! :toast:

Then I was an independent voter and now I'm a registered Democrat, but I didn't sign on as a Democrat to vote for "Democrats" like her!

Check out this comment from her earlier on this:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/03/28/flag.burn/

"No other emblem or symbol in our nation carries with it such a specific code of conduct in it's protocol for display and handling," Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California) countered. "Why then, should it be permissible conduct to burn, desecrate or destroy this symbol, this monument, this national symbol? That's not my definition of free speech."

This woman definitely has a misplaced set of priorities if she wants to be called anything close to a "lefty"...

but Dianne is neither one. She's a dyed-in-the-wool DINO and either completely out of touch with her constituents, or just doesn't give a damn. Of course I won't vote for any Repub that runs against her, but my conscience will not allow me to vote FOR her. Depending on who else is on the ballot, I may vote Green or Libertarian, or leave it blank. But I won't waste my vote on her again. She's sold us out too many times, and she doesn't deserve the respect of my vote.

...every time I go to vote my conscience, bushbaby comes to mind and I cower. Crazy aren't I? :crazy:

Is she the official leader of the DLC now, or what? Is she stupid or just suicidal?

California is not exactly a hotbed of wingnuttia.

O my friend! There are 3 million people in Orange County, about 70% hard RW; 2 million in San Diego County, about 60% RW; 1 million in Riverside County, about 60% RW; 7 million in the Central Valley, about 60% RW, and then there are places like Concord, Simi Valley, Bakersfield . . .

About 30% of the California electorate is virulently right wing.

I never realized that before.

But it's still only 30%. And she's nowhere near Orange County, right?

I've attended Dem meetings where professionals tell us OC is an important source for Democratic votes in statewide elections. And there ARE Dem's in OC -- Loretta Sanchez represents Santa Ana in Congress, for example.

But Diane doesn't stick her nose into the OC very often. There's nothing to be gained there.

She'll try harder in the Central Valley, where ANY politician from Northern California is usually more popular than politicians from water-thirsty SoCal.

But one of the most populous, I hear.

it may important to mention that san diego is a very large and mostly rural county. san diego city proper is actually very democrat (as reflected in the representatives) but the county itself overall is gop.

I keep reading posts wanting to know , what is wrong with DiFi? I read an article many months ago, here on DU , that stated DiFi's husband, who is very wealthy, has government contracts. Maybe she does not want him to lose these lucrative contracts. Sort of a conflict there, right? she is a real putz.DiFi is simply looking out for the old pocketbook. She is not representing her people. Time to get rid of her.

Didn't she come out in favor of this earlier this year? And what of Lieberman?

She voted for a BILL to make flag burning a crime on government property with the intent to intimidate others...

She has always opposed the amendment.

move by Hillary earlier to lay that out there, and then co sponsor the Durbin amendment knowing full well it would not pass and then vote NO on the constitutional amendement by Hatch....Excuse me but Hillary is smart and astute, but she does get some help from the smartest political mind....WJC....

I was kind of surprised too.

Interesting to see what hills she IS willing to die on.

that Bayh is on the list. He's my senator but I'm no fan. I'm sure he posturing for 08 and he thinks this kind of vote will help him in certain circles.

I realize he's pretty moderate and all, and I know most people on DU don't like him, but when it comes to an issue like this I thought he would stand by us. I was wrong.

and not be intimidated by GOP tactics of branding DEMS as traitors
if they don't go along with the party line.

It's a game lady, just a game, but it's their game.

You don't play their games.

You play your own game and not take their bait!

A pure professional politician. Period.
I don't think she's ever lost an election. ( oops...she may have a failed Gov. race on her record.) All the same, a very impressive track record. She stays deadcenter and wins lot of votes in the OC & Central Valley.

on a national level and under the circumstances inappropriate posturing for someone in a leadership position. How can you lead when you choose a servant's position, serving two masters?

n/t

banning flag burning is no different from outlawing the display of the Confederate flag or crucifix. Perhaps Democrats need to wake up and shove this back down the Republicans throats.

"One day in 1776, they created an effigy of King George III, wrapped it in the British flag and burned it." http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=6595

In the American revolution the patriots were the flag burners, not the unquestioning loyalists. Richard Shelby would have loved kissing King George's ass just as much as he loves kissing the President's.

JUST PICK UP THE PHONE AND TELL THEM. OVER AND OVER AGAIN. TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT, PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW, EVERYONE READING THIS, THIS IS AN OLD TACTIC BUT IT REALLY WORKS WHEN THOUSANDS DO IT. DON'T E-MAIL, PHONE THEM, TIE UP THE LINES, MAKE THE OFFICE STAFF WORK. THEY WILL HEAR YOU!

and all sorts of silliness plays out on the DC stage. This was well orchestrated to play to the home voters, not the national stage.

Everybody knows exactly what the vote will be before it happens-- that's what the whips are for. Last time we won this thing by three votes, so it was too close for comfort, but everyone voting for it was more worried about a challenger claiming they "hated the flag" and all that bullshit.

Besides, it would have to pass through all the state legislatures, where no one really wants to deal with it, and it would likely just fade away.

Even if it did pass, it would be silly but would it be so bad?

...as we have excuses for Democrats who agree with them.

until we figure out a way to educate the public and get them involved, we're too often reduced to whining and defensive actions.

...instead of educating the public, they accepted RW influenced public perception.

It will stop when we STOP making excuses like you just did.

I pay them to uphold the U.S. Constitution.

Gosh- wouldnt we all love to tell our bosses- "Hey- I did it the easy way- why all the complaints?..."

Sorry, but this same excuse is what got us into this war-which ultimately cost us 2 election cycles- it's time to change this pattern and start standing up.

I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of term limits b/c of crap like this.

the public had better educate itself...oh, shit!!...there's another open-ended war the usa has already lost!

it would not change my life at all, but yes it would be bad. As Kerry said (roughly)," Flag Burning is stupid, but nothing in the Constitution says that you can't be stupid." I, like most citizens, am not interested in burning flags, but if ever a time came when a large group of people started burning flags as a means of protest the government shouldn't be saying "They can't do that" they should be saying, "What are we doing that is making people angry enough to take part in something like this?" But that's the problem with Republicans (and apparently some Democrats). They don't want to accept that what they're doing is infuriating the people they are supposed to be serving, they just want people who disagree to sit down and shut up. That and the fact that the Supreme Court has TWICE in the past 20 years decided that banning flag burning is a violation of the first amendment make it very important to me that this amendment never be passed.

n/t

and they do sit down and shut up like good lemmings...why worry @ a stolen election, an illegal war, world poverty...when there are important issues like flag burning and gay marriage out there (essential shit to civilization!!!...it does help explain why rove is so successful...scarey shit!!! the future often looks bleak...

ANYONE who votes against the First Amendment is an ENEMY of mine.

Shoot first, hang, draw and quarter, and spit or shit on the remains. Period. Then declare in writing that the person deseased is an enemy of the state for historical measure.

Next...

This is what our Founding Fathers would do and declare to be done in their honor for the blood they have spilled. No questions asked.

such strong constitutional principles. Your post is disgusting. You're advocating actions that are antithetical to everything embodied in the constitution.

Granted, my post was a tad strong for some.

But when turncoats like the Democrats who voted for the amendment act against the very nature of our Constitution, they should be treated like any turncoat that tried to stop our democracy. Period.

what the Founding Fathers would have done, but this was a vote in the Senate and not treason. It's highly doubtful that ANY of the FFs would be calling for blood under this particular set of circumstances. Additionally, I don't particularly give a shit if they would endorse such action, they'd still be wrong.

We are in the middle of a political war. Every politician is attempting to gain advantage for his race in November. This is all about politics. It's not about serious issues.

Or should I just remove it?

How many on the list are up for re-election this November? Not an excuse, but maybe an explanation?

n/t

Feinstein voted for this slimmey... She lost my vote a while ago, so this does not come as a surprise... adn do not start with the but, but, but... the only thing politoos undesrand is loosing votes

Bayh is on the list. That's all we need to know. He either believes that the bill
should have passed, or he is trying to appeal to the Repubs.

Bye bye, Bayh...you're not your daddy.

against the Constitution of the United Statees.

None of them are fit to serve as United States Senators.

"You want to change the Constitution for this? Or are you trying to appeal to the Republicans, with an eye toward the future? I would prefer a leader who would fight for what the authors of the Constitution were all about...Freedom.

No, thanks. You just lost my vote."

I always tried to keep an open mind about him, because I thought that even if he wasn't as far left as the people I tend to like he would still be with us when Republicans tried to take petty issues like gay marriage and flag burning and put them into the Constitution. I gave him a chance, and he screwed us. He will not have my support from now on.

CA is there and FL isn't!

with liberal dems. If he had voted for the amendment he would just increase the disgust so many CT dems and independents already have for him. He would get absolutely nothing good in this state by voting for the amendment. Besides, he knows it doesn't mean sh*t anyway!

he actually voted against this -- an amendment he said he was totally FOR during the primaries. Holding his DINO feet to the fire is working. Voters of CT, and Ned Lamont, I salute you!

And, not to be bitchy or to put too fine a point on things... out of the 13 Dems who voted FOR the Amendment, I would like to point out that all but 3 are DLC.

TC

Wow. Ned must be giving him nightmares...

The people have risen up, and are about to hand him his ass on a platter.

Regardless of the outcome, Joe's "spotless" reputation has been forever damaged, and he will now always be seen as a liability. Tell me he'll EVER AGAIN see a spot on a national ticket for the DEMOCRATS. Tell me he'll ever again take ANY election for granted. As we have seen with this vote on the Flag-Burning Amendment, he is so terrified of Lamont that he declined to add his name to it DESPITE having championed such an amendment during the last primaries. He has heard us.

And, still... we need to make an example of him if we can. We need to send a message to EVERY STINKING DINO -- YOU VOTE WITH THE OPPOSITION AT YOUR OWN PERIL... YOU VOTE AGAINST THE INTERESTS OF THE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS WHO ELECT YOU AND YOUR ASS IS GRASS.

I hope Joe is UNEMPLOYED very soon AND forced out of this Party once and for all.

TC

Now I am in shock. The biggest piece of shit in the Senate and he did something for America and against the GOP for once in his life. I am in shock.

that it's all a game and that at some point in this game of Constitutional "chicken" someone has to swerve the car.

I'm thoroughly disgusted with him. I'm glad he's leaving office.

from Salazar

but I should mention that the Nelson from Florida also feels that the Constitution is not worth protecting. That makes the count 52 Republicans and 14 "Democrats".

is really pissing me off.

How'd he get to be the so-called Minority "leader"? Which way is he "leading" us?

...worry about?

Here's how it works sometimes:

Say I'm a Senator who voted *for* this, even if this wasn't truly my view. Here are reasons why I might do such a thing:

I knew for certain there were not enough votes for it to pass and my ues vote would make no difference.

My yes vote would deprive my overly aggressive opponent(s) of a stick to beat me with to their over-nationalistic supporters.

Voila! It's a two-fer.

Julie

the whole I knew it wouldn't pass thing, but this got rejected by only one vote. I don't think they knew for sure that those 3 republicans would vote against it. And even so, those up for reelection should know that while it might take away the chance for their opponent to attack them, it will cause people who once supported them to think twice before reelecting them. I understand that politicians don't always vote how they feel, but that doesn't make it right. And if those 14 dems really did support the amendment, then I cannot respect them.

I explained how it really works, do with that what you will. BTW, guess who explained the workings of the Senate to me. Carl Levin.

Julie

my vote in perpetuity. No way she can get it back, after her stance on Iraq. I'll be voting Dem Socialist or Green in the Senate Race.

The last time Hatch went on this flag waving crusade, Bennett said he would support him if it came down to one vote. They must be having a spat.

They managed to neutralize a GOP issue and nobody gets hurt. It's hard to blame them for not taking a stand on a failed issue anyway. That strikes me as a waste of political capital as well as handing ammunition to the opposition. Better to let the GOP preen and dance and still lose.

I'm glad he did, but I wouldn't have expected Rockefeller to vote in favor of it. What do I know :shrug: