On NPR today: many African-Americans born before 1940 or so do not

have birth certificates, as the local hospitals were for whites only and thus, African-Americans had to be born at home; many of them do not have birth certificates as no official record of their birth was made. The discussion was in the context of Medicaid but it certainly has huge implications for people in states which are looking at requiring "proof of citizenship" in order to vote.

On All Things Considered
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5519069

and she's only 60.

An old friend of mine grew up in Georgia. He said that blacks were denied the use of hospitals and white doctors would not treat them even if they were dying. I think this was the case until after WWII.

She was born at home, so she has no birth certificate, she has not driven in 10 years and has no photo ID, as the new law in her state requires. Her state rep is working with us to get her registered. But it doesn't look good.

We are seriously considering calling the ACLU. This law really sucks. My mother is just livid. She worked for a military contractor for 35 years. She passed rigorous routine FBI screenings to keep that job. So she could work all those years buying components for nuclear weapons but now she can't vote.

Really pisses me off.

How can somebody get by these days without a photo ID? How can you get a bank account? Cash a paycheck?

I cannot do any of that without my photo ID.

I am genuinely curious.

She doesn't drive and lives in a nursing home. She worked hard for 50+ years and is retired now so she doesn't have to worry about cashing a paycheck.

Not everyone lives in your world. I know plenty of people who have no picture ID.

at such a simple question.

One of my grandmothers drove until the age of 82 and did her own banking until her death several years later. Another grandmother lived into her 90s and although I never saw her drive, she also did her own banking. I hardly think it was insulting for me to assume an 81 year old remained independent.

Not everyone lives in your world either.

"How can somebody get by these days without a photo ID?"

I answered it. Having no ID is not uncommon.

and a snarky comment about "my world." Neither was necessary for the answer.

when YOU think a question is silly? Interesting.

and it used to be that banks would cash payroll checks without ID if the company had a corporate account .

Less than fifteen years ago I could go for months without ever showing an ID. Being carded in a bar was about the only time I needed one.

but I was required to show ID long before that. I lived, worked, and shopped in a college town. We had to show ID for everything.

don't. If someone kept renewing their ID, they'd have one.

A great aunt got a drivers licence in the 1940s simply by asking for one - no test at all. She kept renewing it but didn't learn to drive for over 40 years after getting the license (after her husband died, my mom taught her).

She got her driver's license in 1941 by just asking for it, and kept renewing it until she quit driving 50+ years later.

Perhaps the problem is that African-Americans were less likely to have an attending doctor? I do family history and have seen many birth certificates where the place of birth was the family residence. I think it was probably likely that there was little encouragement to get the births of African-Americans recorded except in states with mandatory record laws.

There was a procedure called a delayed record of birth. One of my grandmother's brothers has this sort of birth record. It's basically an affidavit from his parents confirming his date and place of birth and was completed when he was 18 and just about to go off to war. He and my grandmother were born in a remote logging camp. There is no record of her birth anywhere.

that says his name is "Baby". So it isn't official, since that is not his name. Yes, many elderly people don't have birth certificates. My mother honestly never needed one until her state passed its ridiculous voter ID law.

man whose legal name was "Baby Boy Brown." Obviously the hospital called him that when he was born and the folks just never got around to calling him anything else.

my whiter-than-white Dad was born on the family farm in northeastern Iowa in 1941, and thus didn't have a birth certificate. It caused him a bit of trouble in the early 70s when he had to get a passport for business travel; as I remember it, the state issued him a certificate based on affidavits from his folks and neighbors.

family members, we can't get her a birth certificate.

knew her as a child or young adult and that's probably a stretch in this days of DHS.

I miss my country.

In georgia does the law allow for documented substitutions for birth certificates if one is not available? If not I would tend to think that would be unconstitutional and/or appealable in court. It is a fact that many elderly born before WWII do not have birth certificates.

Now some general information for those who may be trying to prove identity. I worked in AFDC/Food Stamps for many years and we had to document eligibility for elderly quite often. We usually could take two other items proving birth as a substitute for the missing birth certificate. First baptismal records from churches but also family records of births entered into family Bibles. (Since I lived in Tennessee/Florida, this last was most common among many families.) Next, this in one many may not have thought of but census records taken in the 20's, 30's and 40's can be gotten. These records often showed the presence of the child in the family at the time the census was taken. We could use this federal record as proof of citizenship for federal programs. Surely, a census record would be acceptable proof for the state? There were other things we could use to prove citizenship (and that is theoretically what this is all about) to prove identity and citizenship.

If an elderly person is already on Social Security and/or Supplemental Security Income then birth and identity have been established with those agencies. There must be a way to retrieve that information if necessary.

Of course, none of this should be necessary, but these are some options to look into for the time being. I sincerely hope the good people of Georgia intend to fight this in the courts since the justice dept. has screwed them over.

Good Luck. Fight for your Rights!

She did have a birth record, but it was just a line in a record book. It has the date, her parents' names, that she was white, and that she was born alive. No mention of name or gender.

She had to have family members sign a similar affidavit.

But if African-Americans were less likely to go to the doctor's, or courthouse, or a notary public to get any sort of identification it's because they, like the hospital, were whites only too.

surely the babies were baptised! aren't all people in xian countries baptised? i know that the 1st nations people in canada also never had birth certificates etc, but the births were registered by the various churches (mainly the RC but also some mainline protestants)..these baptismal certificates are as good as the gov document.....

Only certain Christian denominations baptize infants: Catholics, Presbyterians, possibly Episcopalians, etc. The others believe that baptism is a decision that must be made by the individual his- or herself.

And since these are not state-issued documents, they wouldn't count as an official record of birth in the eyes of law.

The state is being very lenient for these voters who often don't have birth certificates. The day after the voter ID law was signed, the governor signed a bill for elderly voters, granting them more leeway than other age groups for proving their identity.

They wait until you are personally SAVED!

I've been told (not sure, though) that in GA a birth recorded in a family's geneology Bible can count for proof. I've seen Bible records that go back for several generations and are detailed as far as birth, marriage, and death are concerned. After all, anyone inheriting, keeping records in, and then bequeathing a Bible is not likely to lie in it.