Should the Dems gerrymander after taking control?

Now that SCOTUS has ok'd the Delay method of redistricting if and when the Dems have control should they deliver a little payback?

....the saying, "Payback is a bitch".:applause: And yes, I think we need to pay the neocons back:evilgrin: for every little second of hell they have put us through for:wtf: 8 long miserable years (by election time).:freak: Don't let them get by with anything.:rant:

Any State with a Dem majority can get right to it!
(hellooooo Peter King!)

it's just the way things are going to be: more and more corrupted by the entrenchment of one machine over the other.

Yes, payback is a bitch, and when we get a democrat in office we now have the all powerful 'Office of the Unitary President', who can look into all the republicans bank records and financial transactions, emails and phone records and nail them to the wall.

Hallelujah brother!

*methinks a shitload of special prosecutors will be in order

welcome to hell scumbags

The original districts should be restored or corrected based on population and not political statistics.

When the Democrats regain power, they need to demonstrate how a government should be run and they damn sure had better do it with the Constitution in mind and follow the law to the letter. They will need to demonstrate to the voters that they have integrity and are not the criminals who have raped and plundered this nations wealth.

we need to fight fire with fire. If I were a Dem think tank prior to this SCOTUS ruling yesterday - I would have had a plan and contingencies on the table for either outcome. Given the outcome of yesterdays decision - the plan would have been to mobilize in any state that the Dems have control - and redistrict to the Dems advantage. Begin to do this as soon as the decision has been rendered - and make sure that it is in place before the Nov '06 elections - if possible.

I know we as Dems should set an example - but - taking the high road since 2000 has got us into this current situation. It's time to fight back and take control - anyway we can - and make sure once we have control that the atrocities perpetrated on the American people during this administration cannot possibly ever happen again.

I say we follow the letter of the law. :evilgrin:

...repukes that voted for Bush instead of Gore.

No, better to use Delay's tactic now approved by SCOTUS and redistrict New York, California, Washington State, Oregon, and other states with Democratic majorities since we, Constitutionally, can't get more Senators.

It's just not fair that thinly populated states like Wyoming, and Arkansas, for example, send the same amount of Senators to Washington as California, New York, Washington State.

It would be a good idea to redistrict heavily populated California for more seats to the House.

There are, after all, more Democratic constituents than Republican, and the House should reflect that.

We've got Dems in both state houses and Senate.

We can gerrymander 'em to death, but first, we must put Ritter in the Governor's seat.

We probably COULD isolate the Repuke sections (see Fundyland) of Colorado to ONE, ONLY ONE district and the rest can be Democratic.

Hawkeye-X

...into the governor's seat here come November, but I fear that, with Schwarzenegger's choice of SoS, Bruce McPherson, having "re-certified" Diebold machines for use in California, that's going to be hard!

Already during the recent Democratic primary, the MSM spin out here by CBS, ABC, KTLA, and other "news" outlets began spinning that Angelides can't win against Schwarzenegger, but Steve Westley had an excellent chance.

They probably knew Angelides was going to win, and already laid the groundwork for spinning when Diebold hands Schwarzenegger a full four year term come this November.

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but after Diebold decided the Busby vs Bilbray election in favor of lobbyist Bilbray (with ties to Abramoff, no less!) in San Diego, and Diebold having been "re-certified" to be used statewide in California's '06 elections while the MSM here begin their "Angelides can't win from popular governor Schwarzenegger" theme, I'm gettin' afraid.

Put the lines back and get our six seats back, screw them and their underhanded tactics. Then we pass a law making it illegal to redistrict except on Census years.

n/t

although, they certainly should re-district into something that doesn't look like an ink blot test and if the repukes ever try to gerrymander it back, scream bloody murder and show the people how ridiculous the pigs are being.

the tools of power is naive.

Democracy has been an illusion. The point is to enforce a program of change. The means are irrelevant.

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(At least in my lifetime), Democrats have never been very
good at raw exercises of power. Republicans, on the other
hand, understand this concept very well.

Until Democrats learn to do it right back to them, we'll
keep getting our Ass kicked.

*OF COURSE* we should redistrict to favor Democrats. And
when we regain control, we should immediately eliminate
the Senatorial filibuster as well, and toss out "blue card"
holds on Presidential appointees. When you have the votes,
you don't need shenanigans.

Tesha

Redistrict every puke out of office, or as many as possible.

To do anything less is to continue the surrender politics that the party has pursued for far too long.

valued over $500K in parts of red states and gerrymander them into one district.

I mean, the Republicans keep pointing out how the "wealthy" aren't really that many in number . . . put as many as you can into one district per state . . . You'd have less likely chances of having more than one Republican voted into the House in those states . . .

sure, there's a feeling of "they stuck it to us now let's get even" ... i understand that ...

but there's a much more important goal to be achieved than "getting even" ...

for too long, "we the people" have been denied a high quality democracy ... if Democrats return to power, should the goal be crushing those republican bastards OR should it be the building of institutions that protect the rights of the minority party?? if we do nothing but retaliate then we are no better than they are!!

several key things need to be changed in our government and our laws to protect our democracy ...

first, gerrymandering ... it's wrong! period! we need to write better laws that prevent the majority party from abusing our democracy with unjustified gerrymandering ... protections were written into the Voting Rights Act to do just that; apparently, the law was weak and the controls were inadequate ... my view is that a better system, based on objective criteria like "consistent geographical boundaries" combined with population should be instituted ... while this proposal would need all sorts of additional details, the basic idea is that congressional districts should be based on OBJECTIVE criteria that could not be used to gain political advantage ...

second, and this is a biggie, it is a most hideous rule that the minority party cannot call hearings and cannot subpoena witnesses ... good democracy requires a strong system of checks and balances ... to create a situation where the minority party is forced to operate in the basement of the Capitol building and is unable to demand testimony from those who have information about possible wrongdoing by the majority party is not acceptable ...

when Democrats regain power, they should immediately right this wrong ... republicans should be given the right to investigate Democrats and vice versa ... if Democrats use their power to deny republicans this right, good oversight suffers and the people are not served ... i worry that partisanship and payback will prevent these changes and that's too bad ...

it's time for a little more "do unto others" and a little less "let's get those bastards" ... i say "beat the hell out of them in the elections and then let's start reforming our government the way it should be" ...

I prefer the much nicer, polite term the GOP/media uses for when Republicans do it- "redistricting"

So yes- we SHOULD redistrict.

NGU.

Districts should be competitive. Let the people decide.

To the victors goes the spoils...

But first we DO have to win...

between winning elections by having the more convincing argument, and gaming the system so that one party forever has a lock on a district.

I live in a district where a Democratic candidate is at a severe disadvantage.

n/t

That's the one plank on which we all tread: a fair shake for all. If we reestablish that reputation we can rebuild our Republic. If we play their games we are rubber-stamping the kleptocracy which is on the verge of destroying our liberty for all time. The "I-know-better-than-you-so-the-ends-justify-the-means" approach is exactly how and why those bastards stole our country in the first place.

If the moral platitude doesn't wash, then think of it mathematically. If even Republicans admit that the Democrats are more fair and honest, then every election cycle disaffected Republicans have a clear choice in order to keep their perpetually evil representatives as honest as can be hoped. If every Republican candidate automatically has a strong competitor, if every tossup goes our way because we're the only ones that can be truly trusted, that's going a long way toward cementing an honestly earned political dynasty, no gerrymandering required.

I know that we are all nice, polite people, but where does it end so we can WIN something????

neither we should we act the same way he acted ...

Democrats need to put in place laws that prevent the majority party from gaming the system and abusing our democracy ...

if the Texas districts are bogus, they should be changed ... HOWEVER, they should be changed based on a globally applied set of OBJECTIVE CRITERIA ... they, and other districts, should not be redrawn solely to screw the minority ... that is NOT the way real democracy should work ...

the power to "stack the deck" should NOT be subject to the biased political whims of the party in power ... if we act like republicans, we are no better than they are ...

if Democrats put good governance and real democracy at the top of their agenda, they'll be truly serving the needs of the American people and will benefit politically from doing so ...

there is never an excuse to put partisanship ahead of our country's highest ideals ...

We need to redistrict in order to UNDO what the GOP forced on us.

I completely agree that something has to be done. But the point is to undo DeLay's work by returning the districting to something which can be regarded as fair by most observers. That in itself may generate the political muscle necessary to get the job done--it's going to take a lot.

Promising to be a better thief will only attract those criminals who aren't currently succeeding. Most of them are already on the other side.

n/t

I believe in the government working for it's people. Why does anyone want to become one of them? No, we would have to step forward and start repairing the mess the repukes made.

Can we at least UNDO the Republican favored redistricting from the past decade?

Will that be too mean & aggressive for you too?

in the fascist manner they do? Do you think we should continue the divisive attitude that republicans have created in our Country? I think not, redistricting is a state issue. I would like to see the state of Texas reverse that but I have no control in it.

If the dems win in '06 and '08 we, as a party, have to bring back national unity. :shrug:

How would undoing unfair GOP redistricitng be devisive? I'm sure the GOP, media and the likes of you will say it is, but can you articulate just HOW?

And yes- it is a state rather than Federal issue. So what? I thought this state-by-state issue was the topic of the thread- but thanks for the 8th grade civics lesson just the same.

I dont buy the whole "if we stand up to Republicans, we are facists like them"- that is the CRAP that causes us to lose elections.

Keep me out of it. Good day to you.

in your state! The word "PAYBACK" is divisive for the likes of me. If you're going to use "quote" marks when you say something I didn't say, you better be real careful. Your quote " if we stand up to Re;ublicans, we are fascists like them" is something I DID NOT SAY!!! You, sir, have gone way over the line!!! :mad: :grr: :grr: :mad:

Gerrymandering for Democratic control is just as wrong on principle as gerrymanding for Republican control. The point is freedom of expression for the people. It was never meant to be a tool for political gain. It is wrong precisely because it is not fair.

What I don like is the word "PAYBACK". If we get control back we better come across less divisive than the present Congress and Executive Branch. If we get control it would be time to bring this country back together, stop the wars, the torturing, and quit the greater than thou attitude and become the Nation we once were. We have to get back the respect of the world that this Administration has so willingly thrown away. We don't need another King. We don't need to use words like "PAYBACK". :shrug:

n/t

We'd be fools not to.

In our system, districts should be drawn up according to reasonable measures such as population density and location and others, not for political manipulation.

In the past when gerrymandering was still legal, the ones who were most often disenfranchised were the poor and the Blacks. In many cases, folks were both poor and Black.

I would rather abolish the old system entirely and institute proportional representation in the House. That's one of the things I advocate given the lessons of the past.