Americans More Likely to be Killed by Lightning Than See Flag Burned

There's a good chance that many uninformed Americans did not realize that the attempt in the Senate to ban flag desecration was simply a dirty GOP exercise in wedge-issue politics and thought that the reason for trying to amend the Constitution was the sheer number of flags now being burned on our streets.

The recently-defeated Republican amendment, sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), was killed Tuesday by a vote of 66-34, with 67 votes needed for passage.

"The fact is that I was asked this afternoon by a large body of media: Is this the most important thing the Senate could be doing at this time?" said Hatch on the Senate floor Tuesday. "I can tell you, you're darn right it is."

So you have to figure, with our country embroiled in a disastrous war, 45 million Americans with no health insurance, gas prices through the roof and the biggest budget deficit in U.S. history occurring on his party's watch, there's got to be a lot of flag burning going on to make this such a priority for Senator Orrin Hatch.

Wrong.

The Citizens Flag Alliance (CFA) was a big supporter of Hatch's amendment and has, by its own admission, one goal: "the passage of a Constitutional amendment that will return to the people the right to protect their flag." The CFA, comprised of about 140 organizations that, according to their web site, boasts a collective membership of about 20 million people, has kept a close count on total public flag desecrations in our country in the last 12 years.

So we took a look at the numbers and discovered that Senator Hatch must be a very bored, out-of-touch man to make this the key issue for his legislative year.

Based on numbers from the CFA, which Hatch described on the Senate floor as "true citizen activists" who "have devoted their time and energy fighting for the right to protect these values" -- and who one would expect to have large numbers to support their case -- there may be more UFO sightings in America than burning flags spotted these days.

The number of flags the CFA says were desecrated in the United States in the first six months of 2006: Four.

Which makes it on pace to match the average number of flag-desecration incidents per year from 2000 through 2005 -- eight.

You do indeed read those numbers right. In a country with 300 million people, with an infinite number of political agendas, we have an average of eight acts of flag vandalism per year. The CFA must have almost fallen asleep in 2000, when only two flags were burned -- in the entire United States of America.

Here's a number that should put the ridiculous emphasis by Republicans on the "problem" of American flag desecrations in context: You are at least eight times more likely to be killed by a direct lightning strike in the U.S. than to see an American flag burned.

According to the National Weather Service's Lightning Safety web page, an average of 66 people are killed each year by lightning in the United States, with 32 such deaths in 2004.

And here's some examples of the heinous acts the CFA and Hatch watch for:

• September 16, 1995, Moore, OK: A Moore teen-ager was arrested for raising his car hood at a convenience store, retrieving a full-size U. S. Flag from inside the vehicle, and using the flag to wipe oil from his car's dipstick. He will not be prosecuted.

• April 22, 1996, Dacono, CO: A twenty-foot by thirty-foot flag belonging to the city of Dacono was stolen in broad daylight from the town's 160-foot water tower. The flag is the largest municipal flag in Colorado.

• June 2, 2006, West Haven, CT: What should have been a peaceful stroll along the shorefront bike path turned into an ugly scene late Wednesday as an allegedly drunken man desecrated the U.S. flag, hurled a racial slur at a witness and then chugged a beer in front of police, authorities said Thursday.

None of the GOP emphasis on this trivia surprises Delaware Democrat Thomas Carper.

"To suggest that the United States is somehow facing a rash of this conduct just isn't true," said Carper in the Senate on Tuesday. "In fact, it rarely, if ever, happens. I think that begs the question: Do we really need to amend the Constitution in an effort to eliminate a form of protest that almost never happens in America today?"

Given that there were almost as many named hurricanes striking the U.S. as there were documented flag desecrations in 2005, maybe Senator Hatch would do more good by turning his attention to the mess at the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) than dividing America with this election-year nonsense.

But then, I guess that would seem too much like real work.

You can reach Bob Geiger at geiger.bob@gmail.com and read more from him at Democrats.com.

:crazy:

I am writing my congressman immediately - the Honorable Tom Feeney

The map is not the territory.

The flag is not the country.

When Fred Phelps came to Canada to burn a Canadian flag in front of the Supreme Court Building, the RCMP offered advice and helped him light it just to get him out of there.

or killed by the Loch Ness Monster than see a flag burning.

:evilgrin:

...there shouldn't be an amendment banning flag burning, some people could be intimidated by this behavior.

I'm sure people are even less likely to see a cross burned, but we don't allow that type of "speech".

Just because something doesn't bother you, it doesn't mean it doesn't bother others. Not being arumentitive, but there are other points of view that should at a minimum, be tolerated.

minorities. It means if you don't get out of town violence will visit you.
Flag burning means nothing of the sort. Besides that, to which of the two major political parties is the Klan most closely aligned?

is only illegal when and if it can be proven that it was an act of intimidation, it is the intimidation that can be banned, not the act itself, though I agree that cross-burning, by it's nature, will most likely be viewed in that light. In a 2003 decision, the Supreme Court said that "states may outlaw acts of cross burning that are intended to intimidate. The Court recited the long history of cross burning as a virulent "symbol of hate" in upholding most parts of a Virginia law that bars cross burning on public or private property.

"When a cross burning is used to intimidate, few if any messages are more powerful," wrote Justice Sandra Day O'Connor for a majority in Virginia v. Black.

But the Supreme Court also said that under some circumstances, cross burning could be a form of expression protected by the First Amendment. So, by a separate vote, the Court struck down a part of the Virginia law at issue that said jurors could presume that anyone who burns a cross intended to intimidate."

Call it what you will, until flag burnings are associated with lynchings, hangings and the mass persecution of an entire race of people based on their skin color, I don't think the acts are even in the same category. While I personally feel that if you took all of the crosses in the world and had a big marshmallow roast, it would be a better place, I understand the intimidation perceived in the act. When I see a burning flag, the same associations do not apply.

Hatch is an ass. The others who voted with him are pandering asses as well. I live in Utah and am embarrassed by this fool. Help us remove him, go to www.peteashdown.com, make a donation and help us Utahns boot the idiot.

I can't find the same one I pulled the quote from, but it may be in the .pdf of the decision below.


http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=01-1107

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/02pdf/01-1107.pdf

...for that matter. Doesn't stop people from demagoguing on the issue, though.

For some reason, the likelihood of an event has no bearing on it's importance in the political sphere. Think about the biggest risks confronting most Americans -- getting sick without health care, ending up jobless and homeless, etc... -- there's almost NO political buzz surrounding those issues.

"Ohhh, look at the shiny thing!"

I use that line all the time. Do you think the Bushagogues care one bit? No, because it's never been about doing what's right or protecting the citizens of this country - it's all about power, isn't it?

...It you truly want to make a symbolic gesture, it's better to wash the flag than to burn it.

Of course, it's gonna' take a heap of washing to clean up after this bunch.

And not just the U.S.A. Flag, but every flag. All of them.

"Those stupid french, not supporting our invasion.." well now, you can wipe your ass on France, Or uh, the French Flag any way.

Who is with me? lets start a Company and make Millions of Dolors.

...how am I going to "respectfully" dispose of my tattered flag as I was taught in Boy Scouts??

Flag Etiquette
STANDARDS of RESPECT

The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

* The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.
* The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
* The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard
* The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
* The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
* The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.

Note: Most American Legion Posts regularly conduct a dignified flag burning ceremony, often on Flag Day, June 14th. Many Cub Scout Packs, Boy Scout Troops, and Girl Scout Troops retire flags regularly as well. Contact your local American Legion Hall or Scout Troop to inquire about the availability of this service.


http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html


Wonder if there is enough jail space for all those flag burning American Legion members, Cub Scouts (well, we can send them to juvie hall), Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

...how many other "etiquette" faux paus do we see on a daily basis in this country?? What hypocrites!!!!

what about doing interpretive dance of burning the flag?

we live in a nation full of idiots. Some good guys for sure, and many on DU, but the rest are just butt damn stupid.

more likely to be unemployed than see a flag burned
more likely to go bankrupt from medical bills than see a flag burned
more likely to have their privacy violated in flagrant disregard for the Fourth Amendment than see a flag burned

Goddamn lightning again.

...it's the burning of the flag AS A PROTEST. So what they are really trying to ban is...well...protest. It's the sentiment that they dislike, not the actual destruction of the flag. If they cared about that, you'd never see tattered flags waving from car antennae.

The point is this: they are trying to ban voicing your disapproval of their policies through protest. It really has nothing to do with burning the flag.

in a dignified way as a result of their ignorance.

I think that the people who burn it probably knew that that is the proper disposal of the flag and chose that method because they are trying to still afford the flag its dignity but by being public use it for protest symbolism...

Frankly I think ripping it or cutting it should be what these jerks worry about it.

...in my cupboard. They are emblazoned with the US Flag. How am I to dispose of them if I use them this coming 4th? Isn't this desecration as well? For that matter is not this improper flag "etiquette" to display the flag on a disposable paper napkin?? Help me out here, I'm in such a freaking quandrary!!!! :sarcasm:

* "The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use."

http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.


How about ** signing those miniature flags at a recent photo-op?

That take up so much gas that it causes us to start illegal wars all over the place....

The only flag image that I respect is the one on the flagpole, i am so tired of seeing it being used to promote some blowhard's misplaced loyalty to the PReznit.

Burn a Republican instead. :evilgrin: Oops... Just kidding... I'll go back to being nice now. O8)

the work of the people and stop this idiotic diversionary nonsense. Rome is actually burning while you're talking about flags.:mad:

If that is OK, then I'll go colour photocopy some and set light to 'em. Just for fun, of course.

It just beggars the question "when is a flag not a flag?" Is the US flag a copyrighted item?

Mark.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It amazes me how the Rapture Right is unable to comprehend that banning the burning of the flag does not violate these words.

I agree, this is a ludicrous waste of time. In addition - I'm having a difficult time remembering EVER hearing anyone say they were going to the polls because they were fired up about the Flag Burning amendment . . . :shrug:

Thanks for the numbers and the link. Excellent post.

What I meant to say was: "It amazes me how the Rapture Right is unable to comprehend that banning the burning of the flag is a clear violation of these words."

Sorry . . . my first blog . . . :)

incidents that CFA is huffing-n-puffing about are acts of arson, criminal mischief, or vandalism involving somebody damaging somebody else's property. That means that the majority of these incidents are not protected free speech but are currently prosecutable under ordinary civil or criminal law.

A far more serious problem than flag burning.

Some other things that are more likely to happen to you than to witness a flag burning:

Number of dog bites requiring medical attention: about 800,000
Average number killed by dogs every year: 17
Number killed by fireworks, 2002: 5
Number killed by firearms (accidental discharge), 2002: 762
Number killed by tripping or stumbling, 2002: 646
Number killed by falling off bed, chair, or other furniture, 2002: 785
Number killed by choking on food, 2002: 819
Number killed by hornets, wasps and bees: 54
Autoerotic asphyxiation: 500-1,000 killed annually (estimate)
Number killed in auto racing (drag racing, not NASCAR) accidents, 2001: 135

Etc. You're far more likely to be killed by some kid in a souped-up Toyota Supra than you are to witness a flag burning--more than sixteen times as likely. You're about 100 times more likely to die from a fall off a chair, or to choke to death on a ham sandwich, than you are to witness a flag burning.

Who has that kind of money to burn?

partial birth abortions. I am 52 years old and know of nobody who has had one of these late term abortions. I have asked everyone I know if they know of someone who has had a 'partial birth abortion'- negative. Additionally I have never witnessed the flag being burned.
So tired of these people.

Unless you're a 'blame America firster'.