Can we all agree that the following should be in the 2008 platform, no matter WHO we nominate?

1)REPEAL or radical reform of CAFTA and NAFTA.
2)REPEAL or major reform of the Patriot Act.
3)Universal health care/Single Payer if possible.
4)Abolition of the Taft/Hartley act.
5)Abolition of the Electoral College/removal of the size limit on the U.S. House so its once again "representation by population"/Instant runoff voting to remove the "spoiler" factor from elections/verified paper trail voting.

6)Withdrawal from Iraq if, God Forbid, we're still there by then.
7)An absolute and permanent ban on torture.
8)A major switch of budget priorities from militarism to social services, education, public broadcasting and the arts.

It seems to me that the time has come when the party's workers, not the nominee and the big donors, should write the platform, and the candidate, whomever he and she is, should simply follow it. This would make the nominating process much less bitter and contentious.

...4,6,7 have no chance at all of happening with either parties.

:wtf:

That's the most depressing thing I've read all day.

thinking tonight. If only dreams could come true. :thumbsup:

1. maybe
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes
5. no
6. yes
7. yes
8. yes

The existing electoral system is solely to the benefit of the GOP. Why would ANY Democrat want it preserved?

I'd like to include ending the WoT and the WoD, since they do no good at all.

BY FAR is election integrity and fairness. The US has to have a fair vote count again. Without that, we're not even a democracy.

Paper Ballots or required voter-verified paper print-outs with required robust audits for every election.

that Bush has been bent on destroying.

Even the DLC isn't anti-breathing.

People as still underestmating the scope of the problem, still thinking it is in some unknown future time.

global warming will be THE issue for decades to come.

This falls right in line with a real reformist energy policy that stresses once and for all getting away from fossil-based fuels. A winning platform for the Democrats would be presenting a comprehensive plan for the federal government to subsidize and provide incentives to companies in researching/producing alternative energy and stressing that the U.S. need to take a leadership role in this.

It would be great if our presidential candidate agreed to some of them as well

That's how parties SHOULD be run.

syndrome -- love 'em right or wrong. doesn't matter how much they slap you around.

Take a look at, for example, the ongoing softwood lumber imbroglio. Over the years, NAFTA panel after NAFTA panel has come down on the side of Canada against the US in this, as have the WTO and, most recently, an independent American panel. But protectionists in Congress have stolen over $5 billion in illegally levied duties from Canadian producers. Our newly elected, traitorous Harper government, in order to suck up to Bush, agreed to roll over and play dead, and accept an 80 per cent repayment, thinking that's all we can expect to get. As one of our party leaders put it, it's like when someone picks your pocket and steals a hundred bucks from you, and then, once the criminal is found guilty, instead of insisting that the money be returned, just saying, "All right, all you have to do is pay us eighty bucks, and you can keep the other twenty." Nice scam you've got going there. I guess crime does pay.

We signed the agreement. You signed the agreement. We play by the rules and you don't. It's getting so the word of the United States of America is worth shit.

n/t.

"Abolition of the Electoral College"

Would never happen in a million years anyways as it would require changing the US Constitution and need to be ratified by 3/4's of the states.

"An absolute and permanent ban on torture".

An absolute and permanent ban... no. I think the practice should be reserved only for clearly defined
situations and circumstances.

"A major switch of budget priorities from militarism to social services, education, public broadcasting and the arts".

Let public broadcasting and the arts fund themselves or through private donations.

Therefore I can't see any reason for us to use it ever.

perhaps when related to operational activities and a wider/broader scope of the enemies assets and plans... particularly in a war zone.

But if used to gain very specific, time essential and critical information from an individual whom is known to posses that information it could conceivably be the only (and last), tool/method available.

Example: the oft cited and very real threat of a terrorist (foreign or domestic), having 1st hand knowledge of the location of a nuclear, biological or chemical device hidden away in a major urban area.

An absolute and permanent ban would unquestionably forbid that option when it might be the only option left.

Reality... yes.

That a WMD could be smuggled in or constructed to be used against a major American city?

Any worthwhile defense strategy needs to examine and plan for all potentail scenarios.

If someone had said 5-6 years ago that 4 jetliners could be hijacked by a few crazed individuals armed with box cutters and piloted into the World Trade Center and Pentagon, would you have thought that that person watched to much TV?

Of course no plan is perfect and it would be nearly impossible to plan for all contingencies, but it would be foolhardy and irresponsible to dismiss certain scenarios because one simply believes it's the
kind of thing that can only happen on "TV".

I'd hate to have you running intelligence operations (not that we can't do any worse than what we have now).

Be forewarned that this is graphic but hey, it's what you're advocating so I reckon you can take it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3003636

Cruelty and inhumane behavior is nothing new in war and will always remain as long as countries
put young kids in stressful, frustrating and dangerous situations... ban or no ban.

What transpired in that video is/was already prohibited by international agreements.

The person in that video is more than likely some simple combatant that was unfortunate enough to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Whether or not he had any useful or reliable info is unknown, but it's doubtful that he did.

I don't enthusiastically or willingly support the use of torture as an interrogation method. I also don't outright condone it as a viable method to be used under a clearly defined set of methods, circumstances and situations when all other alternatives fail.

An outright ban/prohibition hamstrings our intelligence gathering capabilities.

As the saying goes... "war is hell"

People will say anything to make it stop. And our government ok'ing it in any way shape or form will only ensure that when Americans are nabbed, they will be tortured mercilessly. Of course that will outrage the American people who, interestingly, aren't like to see it as frat house pranks like they tend to view what we are doing to others.

Julie

if that person doesn't have any info or knowledge of activities to begin with.

But, what if there's sufficient evidence to indicate a prisoner does have direct knowledge
of information that could be of vital importance to a particular operation or investigation?

How would you propose that info be extracted? Particularly time sensitive info?

Bribe them with milk and cookies?

Ask them nicely?

Call them nasty names?

I'm not talking about "frat house" shenanigans or troops torturing combatants and non-combatants alike just for shits-and-giggles or revenge.

Put yourself in the position of a person in charge of others in a combat environment.

As an officer(or NCO), your first obligation is always for the safety and well-being of the people under you... any other concern is secondary.

You have a prisoner that you have ample reason and/or evidence to believe has knowledge of activities that could endanger the safety and lives of the men and women that you are responsible for.

You might get some unreliable info, but you could just as easily obtain accurate info.

Unreliable info can be determined by analyzing and comparing it to other sources and taking other factors into account.

So, what do you do?

Put the screws to someone, or risk putting your people into a dangerous situation that could have easily been avoided or at least pre-planned for?

but I see no reason to get violent.

Investing more (and wisely) in intelligence would go a long way too. Translators, spies that infiltrate and the like.

Julie

violence in wars is getting out of control. :eyes:

Interesting spin on my thoughts.

I thought we were talking about interrogation, didn't realized we'd changed over to the actual battlefield.

Julie

I know you didn't mean it that way, nelson, but you DO realize, I hope, that that phrase sounds a lot like "ve haff vays of making you talk".

Insurance companies are so intensely rich and powerful---I wonder if this would be a disqualifier right off the bat. I would go for it as a position but I wouldn't be honest if I didn't share concern about the feasiblity of this as a party plank. I think this is something that may be better vague in the campaigning. I could be wrong-maybe now the time has come. I am 100% in favor of equal marriage rights for gays, but I wouldn't put that on the party platform.

I am definitely against #5 as a way to reform the voting system. Nationwide paper ballots with mandatory handicap accommodation would be my first choice for improving the voting system --- Or I'd go for voting machines that are run by the government and that have to be auditable, retained and retrievable.

Aside from that, I'm not big on wholesale systemic changes to voting since any system is corruptible

8)A major switch of budget priorities from militarism to social services, education, public broadcasting, SCIENCE and the arts.

n/t.

I think we should ban torture.

But if we are going to have it, there should be 100% accountability. It should be on the news every night someone is tortured, along with the entire chain of command that approved it, and why it was thought necessary.

i support all the items listed in the OP ... sure, they should all be included in the platform ...

but let me point out two more significant planks:
1. reform of our democracy
2. getting serious, damned serious, about global warming

there are numerous democratic reforms we need ... the big picture, to choose a cliche, is that we have to restore power to the people ... this requires radical reforms of the role money plays in our campaigns, lobbying, government contracting, etc ... we cannot allow the poisoning of our democratic institutions by big money to continue ...

and hear this!!! no reforms of anything, no plank, no policy, no nothing, even if we succeed on one thing or another, means a damned thing until we once again have a government of the people, for the people and by the people ... we the people either have power or we do NOT ... right now, we clearly do NOT ... so job one has got to be getting government to represent the best interests of the people ... numerous other changes are needed in this area ... for example, it is REALLY REALLY wrong to allow the party in power to "redraw the electoral maps" ... gerrymandering for political gain is inexcusable in a democracy ... we may enjoy doing it while we're in power but it does not serve the interests of a genuine democracy ... and think what we've seen with republicans controlling the whole government: Democrats were not allowed to call hearings and did NOT have subpoena power to act as a check and balance on Executive Branch abuses ... again, we may like this Senate rule while we're in the majority but this is very, very poor form for a democracy ... the rules should be changed ... and finally, at least for now, whether abuses did or did NOT happen in vote counting over the past few election cycles, there is NO EXCUSE for not auditing a sample of voting returns ... we as citizens in a democracy should never accept the sad state of affairs we see in our election administration ...

and the other plank, getting serious about global warming, has reached and gone far beyond the crisis stage ... this is no longer theory ... cute little liberal programs about alternative fuels are far too little ... my view is that we should err on the side of excessive restrictions ... we can always loosen things up if we make real progress ... alternative fuels are fine; Democrats are right to push for them ... but my view is that we need a much more aggressive program of conservation and energy reduction planning ... it's time to look at the major wasters of energy and start cracking down hard ... the biggest wasters are food production and distribution (i'm told this uses more energy than anything else - even cars) and of course, the use of autos ... let's start moving food production closer to consumers ... this is no small effort but i think it is going to be critically necessary in the not-too-distant future ... let's start building real mass transit ... let's start reengineering (government planning instead of the idiocy of the "free market") where people live and where people work ... let's start looking at changes in commuting patterns ... let's start providing incentives to have people work at home or at least closer to home ... the goal should be to provide as much freedom and non-interference as we can afford AS LONG AS our reduced energy targets can be met; if not, the imposition on rights and freedoms needs to increase until we can make some real progress on global warming ...

so, those are the two most critical planks i see ... one restores power to its rightful owners; the other realizes that greedy forces and our own inattentiveness have put our very survival on the planet in deep peril ...

I might put your second plank first but I can definately accept your ordering to get the higher attention the ecological crisis needs to get.

1. FIRST AND FOREMOST eliminate the opportunity for election fraud by returning to paper only ballots. Until that occurs, our democracy is a sham.
2. ABSOLUTELY NEXT eliminate torture and permission to torture
3. PRECISELY NEXT withdraw from Iraq
4. AFTER THAT prosecute Halliburton and other contractors for fraud.

and then pretty much the rest of your list.

At least in my state, you can go as a delegate to the precinct convention and take a platform plank which can be voted on. This process repeats itself at the senatorial district convention and from there at the state level. I have served on the platform committee myself. From the state level, volunteers write the platform and then take what they can to the national level. Now, I don't know what goes on at national, but at least at state level, we write our own platform.

I would encourage you to get involved in the process of running the Democratic Party on a local level if you are interested in platform.

Now, good luck getting the nominees to follow it. In order to do so, the nominee would have to be truly beholden to the party apparatus in some fundraising or fiscal sense. When a nominee does all of their own fundraising and their own campaigning, of course they don't feel bound to support every plan of it.

Here is what the MAJORITY of Americans (Democrats AND Republicans) want from OUR government!



I don't have a poll handy, but MOST Americans also agree that TORTURE is not an American Value.
If the Democrats would adopt a policy of Economic Justice as their core issue, the rest of the reforms would fall into place.

NOW, what wing of the Democratic Party is AGAINST Economic Justice? Which Democrats are the puppets of the CEO's and the Ownership Class?


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

I would add move aggressively to get away from U.S. addiction to foreign oil and simultaneously actively move toward current more healtful forms of energy (not coal) and development of other alternatives. Oil has brought us war and other ills.

I also foresee that it will be necessary to become more locally sustainable on food production to try to eliminate costly transit of food.

A healthy environment is essential to all other pursuits. Good water is essential.

Nice list. I would only add this: Conservativism is hereby declared a mental illness. All conservatives are hereby declared mentally unfit and are no longer entitled to the right to vote.

I would add one more issue. The end of the drug war. We are spending tons of public money to arrest, try and incarcerate way too many of our fellow citizens. I do not wish to legalize drugs that do serious damage to our social fabric but we could listen to science and reason about what we choose to prohibit.

Otherwise a great list. I especially like the abolition of the electoral college.

agreed in idealistic theory on all points.

Although I think you meant to write "IT'll never happen".

You, fortunately, already did happen.

...

May I add free public education to the 16th grade.

Repeal of the military commissions act.

Public transportation reform-- a complete national commuter/passenger high speed rail system by 2017.

Energy Independence by 2027.
50% carbon reduction by 2027.
50% renewables by 2027.

If I thought that the nominee would actually move forward on those goals, it would definitely influence my vote.

Edited to add:

Repeal the high stakes testing, military recruiter access to students, and other problem parts of NCLB.