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Hillary dodges question about pardoning Scooter from Tweety at AFSCME forum Live now on MSNBC

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:14 AM
Original message
Hillary dodges question about pardoning Scooter from Tweety at AFSCME forum Live now on MSNBC
Edited on Tue Jun-19-07 09:06 AM by flpoljunkie
Mark Penn not finishing polling on Scooter--or something else?
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. She will not anwer a real question - figures
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Sonicmedusa Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hillary: The Artful Dodger
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. When has Clinton *ever* given a straight answer?
Edited on Tue Jun-19-07 08:20 AM by TechBear_Seattle
She would equivocate if asked what time it was, fearful that if it was a different time somewhere else, she might offend a potential supporter.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. must be taking lessons from that other dem candidate... nt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. The media game is to get Clinton into a lose/lose position - and she refuses. If she says
pardon (unlikely as that is), she gets most of the nation upset except the far right.

If she says no pardon, she starts a great summer roll of stories on Clinton pardons and Clinton wrongs that maybe should have been charge (something the media will assert with no evidence) and hypotheticals of whether if there had been such charges, would Bill have issued pardons.

Hillary ducked - it is nice having a candidate that is smart enough to not play the right wing media whores - like NBC - game.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Exactly...cornering a candidate w/a loaded question?
Edited on Tue Jun-19-07 08:40 AM by Tellurian
The naysayers should feel fortunate Tweety didn't ask her, "it's been rumored recently you've been the target of smearing?".. Any ideas on the perpetrators?
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Wouldn't want any focus on husband Bill's pardon of Marc Rich, now would we?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. wouldn't want her to answer, anything exciting happen over the weekend?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. The rich case is actually a justified pardon given that the exact same tax avoidance was not a crime
under Reagan for the 60 or so others (all major corporate players for the GOP) that also did the same accounting. Only Rich paid the fine only to find himself under a criminal charge.

International and nation tax was my thing back then (I ran the Sun Life of Canada US tax operation) and the talk was how could the courts allow such discrimination as to outcome.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. What about Bill Clinton's pardoning of his half-brother, Roger?
Oh Brother! :eyes: That was not a stellar moment of The Big Dog's Presidency either. :thumbsdown:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Roger had done the time and was done the time and was repentent and had stayed out of trouble - he
also had Bill's mother endorsing the pardon!

I am not big on pardons except when there has been a miscarriage of justice as in the Rich case, or there is a lifetime of doing good post the doing bad - Clinton's brother doesn't fit my criteria - but the semi-official criteria is as I stated - "done the time and was repentant and had stayed out of trouble" - and the only judge that these criteria had been adequately met is the President.

The Bush 41 pardons of the Iran-Contra war criminals so that they would not testify against Mr Bush should have caused an up-roar - but it didn't with our right wing media.
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. One of Rich's lawyers was --- "Scooter" Libby.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. yeah, we discussed it 10 yrs ago...old news!
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Apparently not old enough!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. sure it is...you just done want to let go of that "old" bone..
:rofl:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Laugh all you want
Hill is seriously compromised due to the Clinton's pardon of Rich.
She really has to avoid this subject as much as possible.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Wiki Rich's Pardon...
the explanation is he was never guilty of a crime in the first place.

Why? Do you think the Republican smear machine is stupid. This would have been mainstream news, if they thought it couldn't be debunked!

Turn your game up a notch or we'll be waving bub-bye to you!
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. avoiding discussion is indeed required - but only because of our RW media - not because Rich
should have had a criminal charge against him for an accounting procedure that was practiced by the industry as a whole - over 60 companies - and those companies only paid fines - as did Rich.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Dayum! I didn't know that...and i like to think of myself as informed on such issues.
Here's a tidbit from CNN (2001) that highlights the shrewd irony --

...

House Government Reform Committee Begins Marc Rich Pardon Hearing
Aired March 1, 2001 - 11:58 a.m. ET

<SNIP>

The committee hearing will conclude sometime this evening with Republican lawyers, including a man whose nickname is Scooter Libby. He is now chief of staff to Dick Cheney. At one time, he represented Marc Rich. And at one time, Bill Clinton argued that he was among those who advocated the pardon, something that Libby has denied. It probably will be a quick panel.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0103/01/se.07.html
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. thank you!
I just don't get these DUers who, on the one hand, don't want Candidates to play into the MSM's hands and then, on the other hand, get angry when a Candidate doesn't play into the MSM's hand. :eyes:

DU: The Home of Selective Outrage
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. yahtzee
DU: The Home of Selective Outrage
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. I agree -- there is a wisdom to not answering certain questions
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. I would really like to "like" her, but these evasions just turn me off.
As a potential voter for her, why doesn't she just come out and say send him to jail now!!! She certainly isn't going to disappoint her base. She better get with it, start being up front and answer a damn simple question....
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. Maybe she is in favor of pardons generally, like her hubby? nt.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. Senator Clinton assumes (rightly or wrongly) that she will be able to
win the Democratic nomination on her own merits, because of who she is, what she is, and where she has been. She has, for some time now, been actively positioning herself as a candidate for the whole country. She would like to be seen as the candidate that any voter, of any stripe, could meet with on common ground. Whether this strategy will be successful or not remains to be seen, but you can see the influence of her husband in this, I think, and she is probably better at this than he was...
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. They mentioned she sounded most presidential..and she Won the round
Hillary was strong, populist and knowledgeable about the issues!

:toast:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. They = You and a few other Hillaryphiles here on DU...
:puke:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Why should she - or any Dem candidate - play into the MSM's hands?
This is a question to ask Bush not the Dem candidates to replace him.
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. It is a fair question to ask the Dems! nt
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. the problem is....what did she actually say?
how did she say it? i cannot make an opinion on something that i have not seen nor read.

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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Nothing Tweety is pushing her. Just like he did yesterday when
the other analyst disagreed with him. He asked was she going to win. One guy said he did not think so. He felt the media was pushing her. Tweety started getting upset because they did not agree with him.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. Hillary: "Oh, I think there would be enough said without me adding to it."
The audience complained. Hillary responded to their complaint and suggested the questions be about them, and Tweey then remarked, "We'll leave that as a non-answer, then." More complaints from the audience and Tweety, said "you want a fight, okay" and then he moved on with another question.

There is a video here of the exchange: http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??f=00&g=92c12a9d-3a7a-498e-b67b-8e8e28f45363&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19299733/&fg=
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Priceless
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. I see you mis-characterized the audience reaction. They were pissed at Tweety
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3325812&mesg_id=3325812
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. Does this woman ever answer a question without hearing the polling data first????
I am so sick and tired of this bullsh*t.

TC
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
23. WOW, did she really not answer the question??
I was not watching. What happened?
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. Are we "NOW" letting Tweetie or any of the M$M run the campaigns for our
Edited on Tue Jun-19-07 10:39 AM by Alamom
candidates? Just a few short months ago, they were all so far up B*sh &Cheneys asses, they didn't even know Democrats existed. Now that we have had a decent mid-term and are nearing an election, we let these same people ask any type of question and damn the candidate if they refuse to answer..... :wtf:

The media is taking over again & why? Other than political specialists & analysts, why are these news people involved in anything except reporting?

And I speak for all our candidates...not just the one I support for now. I will be voting for the Democratic Nominee in the GE and I don't like the other side (in any form) eating away at any of them.



G> BUshe's admistration gave the M$M permission to run things as long as they run it his way.

I hope our next administration does not.



Give all our candidates strength to make it through this campaign, is all I can say.
"Some" Democrats are as fickle as the media.


edgr
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
29. As always she dodges the questions She should have been
strong enough to answer the question.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. But she's not. Even if she had the modicum of principle to answer definitively today...
she would change her position tomorrow. She's all politico...
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. True. She Flip Flops a lot depending on the way
the audience thinks.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
35. Frankly, I thought she rang the bell except for that question.
She was strong, decisive, even passionate. What a leader NEEDS to be. I can see some wisdom from the HRC camp in ducking what was obviously a set-up type of question, but I wish she had answered it. Other than that, I think she was excellent.

And for the (apparently) necessary disclaimer, I'm not an HRC supporter, although I will be if she is our nominee. I favor Gore first of all, and beyond that leaning toward Edwards (whose performance today was also terrific).

Bake
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. Duplicate post.
Edited on Tue Jun-19-07 12:30 PM by flpoljunkie
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-19-07 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. What's the big deal? Even Bush dodges question about pardoning Scooter
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