Time for Democrats to Forgive Hillary Clinton's Iraq Vote in 2002

http://usliberals.about.com/b/a/257918.htm

Time for Democrats to Forgive Hillary Clinton's Iraq Vote in 2002
Unlike much of the liberal blogosphere, I'm ready to forgive Hillary Clinton's 2002 vote for the Iraq War, and her stubborn reluctance in recent years to demand full withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

Frankly, I admire Sen. Clinton's strength and steely resolve, and refusal to rush to judgment. I also greatly admire her uncompromising drive for the full truth, not just sound-bite truisms. That, to me, is strong leadership.



I do, however, question Sen. Clinton's judgment on occasion. I can forgive... but I won't forget that Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War in 2002 when 23 other senators had enough info and good judgment to vote NO in 2002.

Why am I ready to forgive Sen. Clinton's YES vote in 2002 for the Iraq War?

First, because in a landmark speech on July 10, she FINALLY called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, and promised no "permanent occupation" of Iraq. (Read my quick-reading summary of her lengthy, nuanced speech.)

And second, because I believe that Hillary Clinton has undoubtedly learned a huge lesson about the importance of necessary skepticism (part of good judgment), the potential unreliability of intelligence, and about the irresponsibility of politicizing her Senate votes.

FULL story at link.

does not do the Dems any good (whoever your candidate is). Lets get to the issues.

I just don't remember that.

No thanks.

Seems she hasn't really learned the lesson, because she was part of the 97-0 vote on Iran aggression against American troops, which of course is just the same kind of smoke and mirrors that got us into Iraq. So forgive a mistake, sure, if the lesson is learned. but to turn around and do the same thing, well, that is pretty much unforgivable to me. I am not forgiving anyone on that. So the whole bunch of them at the top right now are shot down in my opinion, if we end up bombing Iran or some stupid stuff shortly, this will be on their heads big time. No one will have the excuse of saying they believed the intelligence that will later be proved wrong.

and I doubt that the relatives of the million dead would

... who will meekly submit to DU's whims.

--p!

I respect her, but I don't forgive. I will vote for her in the GE if she is the nominee, but my primary vote, no.

I feel people miscalculate or make mistakes. I don't like the way she twists it so she doesn't take blame. It's always other people's fault and she is always the victim.
but, I just simply don't like her.

TC

I don't have much use for the politicos who bent over for Bush and Co.

Whatever. My distaste for Hillary goes far that shitty vote.

Forgiveness is not mine to give. She made a choice and I respect her right to do that. However, I disagreed with her vote then, and I sure as hell don't agree with it now. Whether she voted because she thought this was a good idea, or whether she was trying to position herself politically, her judgment was terribly bad with tragic results. I do not believe she should be in charge of the Oval Office. Things are very bad in our country, we absolutely need a leader who puts the country first. That is not a description of Sen. Clinton.

There are many other issues with which I disagree with her, and I'm disgusted by her triangulating style of politics.

To forget? No. To excuse? No. Forgiveness is not the same thing as excusing.

To excuse, to forget, a vote that helped send thousands of people to their deaths, and a vote that has led to billions of dollars spent on the violent march to empire?

No. Not now. Not ever.

I can "forgive." That means that I can acknowledge her error and accept her apology (DID she apologize?) Or I can acknowledge her error and understand that it was a human failing. That, whether or not she has apologized, it's time to move on.

That doesn't mean that I excuse the vote, or that I've forgotten it. That doesn't mean that I abdicate my own responsibility as a voter. I don't help put her in the position to make more such mistakes.

This is like telling God, forgive me because I am entitled to it. I am not sorry about any of the bad thing I have done, and I won't ask for forgiveness, but you must forgive me nevertheless.

What kind of sociopathic reasoning is that?

If HRC does not become our Democratic candidate, it is improbable that her vote in 2002 will be seen as the primary reason.

If she does become the candidate, many Dems say they will support her; what becomes of this "forgiveness" matter then?

She stays high on my list, all things (and current candidates) considered.




:shrug:

The DLC must be destroyed.

Clinton is merely their flavor of the month.

What is Hillary's position on safeguarding Iraqi oil for the Iraqi people? Has she said even one word about it? Or is she complicit with the Big Oil imperialists?

General Odom, National Security Director under Reagan, recently said the only way to end the war was to cutoff funding or to impeach bush. He said any bill to de-authorize the war is a sham and will accomplish nothing. Nevertheless, that's what Hillary's proposing. She's a johnny come lately who has shown ZERO leadership to end the war she voted for. How can we be asked to forgive her when she hasn't apologized. Isn't that the usual process????????????

BTW, should we also forgive her for her hideous, inhumane vote against Feinstein's amendment to ban the use of cluster bombs in populated areas???? Can you imagine anyone with a conscience and a soul and a heart voting against such a thing????? Well, Hillary did !!!!

Forgiveness??? Forget it ...

...until then, forget it.

Until she apologizes for voting for IWR, I will not consider forgiving her.

untold death and destruction you go right ahead and do that. I can't. I expected better of her. Now I don't trust her at all. That's just the way it is.

atonement.

We have seen a semi-confession, albeit one veiled with "They fooled me!"; no repentence of which I am aware and where is the atonement?

Had the junior senator from New York should have not thrown herself before the Jingo Juggernaut so quickly. What makes us think she will not do so again?

This in my eyes requires one to wear sackcloth and stand on the church steps in it on a stool wearing a sign asking for forgiveness prior to readmission to the flock. That was what one had to do in Med. England before you could even be allowed back into church, much less receive a sacrament. . .

She blew it, but if Democrats can't get past that, we're going to lose another election. Unless Gore steps in, Hillary is the only candidate with a prayer.

Hillary remains unrepentant of that war vote, and she has spoken of war against Iran.

She has innocent blood on her hands.

Link please to the speech where she says we won't keep troops in Iraq for years to come (permanent? no just til they die or become mental time bombs). Link please to her apologizing for blaming the Iraqi's for not taking advantage of this opportunity we've given them. Link please to her saying she won't nuke millions of people in Iran.

Forget and move on? Wasn't that Bush's recent line?

Give me a break.

like Big Pharma.

I disagree with her positions on nearly every issue. She is too corporate and thinks nothing of screwing over American workers in favor of large campaign contributers. She is far too willing to capitulate to the Republiks on vital issues. She has consistently failed to hold the military accountable for its monumental waste and corruption. Her "solution" to our ongoing health care crisis is to give the insurance companies even more billion$ in the vain hope that they will eventually do what they are paid for. She will motivate the reich-wing wackos more than any of the other candidates.

On top of all this, she is throwing away the very lives of thousands of young people for her own purposes, a crime I can never forgive.

No how.

Not ever.

Thanks, anyway.


TC

voted for the deaths of 3500 of our troops and thousands of Iraqis. I refuse to reward either one of them with the presidency (unless either happen to win the nomination).

Supporting an illegal, immoral war on a continuing basis for almost four years now. Being a very good friend to corporate America. Stating that if elected she wouldn't end the war ASAP. Being nothing more than another corporate whore during her time in office.

No, the blood of tens of thousands of people is on her hands also. I cannot and will not forgive or forget that.

the war during the 2006 NYS Senate Primary?